2021 Buffalo Bills

[JujuFish]

8 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

First bolded:  perhaps people aren't saying this explicitly, but there is a non-negligible percentage of posters here (including one who bizarrely claims upthread not to be complaining about the refs) who invariably blame the refs -- without naming any other factors -- every time the Bills lose.

I'm not someone who invariably blames the refs, but they definitely impacted the game.  Even Pats fans I know say it should have been 1st and goal from the 1 with 22 seconds to go.

[SwampD]

3 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

First bolded:  perhaps people aren't saying this explicitly, but there is a non-negligible percentage of posters here (including one who bizarrely claims upthread not to be complaining about the refs) who invariably blame the refs -- without naming any other factors -- every time the Bills lose.

Second bolded:  I'd argue "the difference" was the sum total of all of the things the Bills and the Bucs did and didn't do over the course of the game.

Since you are talking about me, I’ll respond. It’s still a BS argument. They are not mutually exclusive. Everything you wrote was a factor in the loss. Of course it was, but like carp said, the non calls still had a direct effect on the outcome of the game and were the difference. The refs allowed Tampa to illegally take Diggs out of the game.

And it’s not every time. Not sure who you are talking about saying that all 5 losses were the refs fault. Nobody but you has said that. Find me one person who said that about the Colts or Jags game. We only say it when it’s true.

So, did the refs just not see Digg’s jersey being pulled? I’m trying to figure out how people justify those non calls.

[nfreeman]

30 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Since you are talking about me, I’ll respond. It’s still a BS argument. They are not mutually exclusive. Everything you wrote was a factor in the loss. Of course it was, but like carp said, the non calls still had a direct effect on the outcome of the game and were the difference. The refs allowed Tampa to illegally take Diggs out of the game.

And it’s not every time. Not sure who you are talking about saying that all 5 losses were the refs fault. Nobody but you has said that. Find me one person who said that about the Colts or Jags game. We only say it when it’s true.

So, did the refs just not see Digg’s jersey being pulled? I’m trying to figure out how people justify those non calls.

Well, since as usual you can't be bothered to do 60 seconds of internet searching to bolster your half-baked theories, I went back and looked at the posts in this thread about the Jax game.  There were 7 posts, including one BY YOU, complaining about the refs.

[Norcal]

Excellent moderation in this thread smh

[SwampD]

2 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Well, since as usual you can't be bothered to do 60 seconds of internet searching to bolster your half-baked theories, I went back and looked at the posts in this thread about the Jax game.  There were 7 posts, including one BY YOU, complaining about the refs.

You mean the post with the smiley face at the end of it?

k

Hardly complaining.

#narrative 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

So that should make me feel better about the Bills getting smoked in the 1st half?

They did come back and a missed call likely cost them the game in regulation.

Against Houston all those years ago you were probably blasting the Bills for a terrible first half.

I suppose the above is not fair to say, but the big picture is the Bills are a good team and they played well enough to win.  TB is a good team that played about as equal to the Bills as one could get.  The difference was 1 missed call.

6 minutes ago, Norcal said:

Excellent moderation in this thread smh

Nevermind he(s) rolling.

[PASabreFan]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

I thought it was impossible to tell from the replay angles they showed.

OK, and the original spot? When I watched the play live, it seemed clear the runner was held short. The official at the top of the screen running down the yard line where the ball was ultimately placed — that looked absolutely bizarre to me. Maybe we'll agree it was a bad spot, and the replay wasn't clear enough to overturn it. Either way...

[Doohickie]

10 hours ago, SwampD said:

There is no way that not a single official saw that. It wasn't "missed" like ROMO said earlier. It was intentionally not called.

I used to get mad. Now it just makes me laugh. Especially when self hating Bills fans try to say that the loss was our own fault.

First half 24-3 Bucs
Second half 24-3 Bills

Yet somehow they deserved to win and the officiating had nothing to do with the outcome.

Ridiculous.

If that call is made, the second half score is 28-3 and the Bills win before OT.

[nfreeman]

8 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

OK, and the original spot? When I watched the play live, it seemed clear the runner was held short. The official at the top of the screen running down the yard line where the ball was ultimately placed — that looked absolutely bizarre to me. Maybe we'll agree it was a bad spot, and the replay wasn't clear enough to overturn it. Either way...

When I watched the play live, I thought it was going to be close.  I don't think I saw anything at any time, live or on replay, that made me think it was clearly a bad call.

For the record, none of my posts on this should be interpreted as an argument that every call was correct -- obviously that is not the case in a human judgment situation.  The point is that (i) teams don't win or lose games because of "the refs" -- they do so because of how they play, (ii) there is no conspiracy to screw the Bills and (iii) blaming "the refs" for losses is the ultimate loser's lament.

I'll also note that neither of the articles in the Athletic today about the game included a single word about questionable calls.

[nfreeman]

25 minutes ago, SwampD said:

You mean the post with the smiley face at the end of it?

k

Hardly complaining.

#narrative 

No smiley face in the one I'm referring to.

[SwampD]

10 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

No smiley face in the one I'm referring to.

You mean the Jags game from 2014?

Not sure what my thoughts on a 7 year old game have to do with Digg’s being interfered with yesterday.

[nfreeman]

Just now, SwampD said:

You mean the Jags game from 2014?

Not sure what my thoughts on a 7 year old game have to do with Digg’s being interfered with yesterday.

No you hoser the Jax game from a month ago.

[SwampD]

1 minute ago, nfreeman said:

No you hoser the Jax game from a month ago.

I only found a joke about prop bets. Doesn’t matter. If I complained about them, I’m sure I was right.

[Taro T]

@nfreeman & @SwampD, for whatever it's worth, the refs WERE bad in the JAGs game.  That was the one where pretty much no amount of presnap movement was worthy of a false start flag on the home team.  There were other bad calls but those were the most egregious.

That said, the Bills O-line was far more responsible for that result than the Zebras were.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Taro T
Friggin' autocorrect.

[triumph_communes]

Refs calls directly related to a 20+ point swing makes the Bills have to be that much better just to eek out a win. 
 

but go on pretending you have a moral high ground and you haven’t watched a Brady officiated game for 20 years.

[Eleven]

Please, like the league and its broadcast partners aren't salivating over the idea of a NE-TB SB.

[PASabreFan]

4 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Please, like the league and its broadcast partners aren't salivating over the idea of a NE-TB SB.

I had to chuckle at nfreeman citing the lack of coverage of officiating in The Athletic. They're all in bed together!

[SwampD]

I'll ask again, since I haven't been given an answer yet.

Did the refs just not see Digg's jersey being tugged on in the endzone?

If not, then how? How did they not see it?

If they did see it (which they should have because it was impossible to miss and it's their job), then why was no flag thrown?

Still trying to figure out how people can justify to themselves the officiating on that play.

[SwampD]

 

And officiating often determines the outcomes of games. To say otherwise is ridiculous, impo.

We see it all the time, across the entire league.

[Doohickie]

15 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Still trying to figure out how people can justify to themselves the officiating on that play.

In the end, I think (not defending them, mind you) that they make a judgment call as to whether the contact/tug/whatever impeded the receiver from making a catch.  So even if he sees a jersey pull, if the official thought that it wasn't the defensive player holding on that caused the no catch, then there is no flag.  Obviously we see that very differently from the refs, but bear in mind the decision was made in a split-second versus repeated replays we've been watching.  Again, not defending the refs; merely answering how they could justify it to themselves.

[Thorny]

The refs make head scratching calls in literally every game. There’s no bias, they just aren’t THAT good 

The calls yesterday, as a neutral observer I thought, overbalanced towards the end, in favour of the Bucs. But it wasn’t unusual re your average NFL game, and no, not even just specifically Brady games 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Thorny

[Weave]

1 hour ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

 

Nevermind he’s (t)rolling.

FTFY

[Gatorman0519]

My take: The Bills are sunk.  That is not being negative but it is football 'logic'. The Pats, Indy, and Bucs exposed our team.  It is all in the trenches.  The Bucs blitzed constantly and JA was lost the whole first half.  Everyone knows we are one dimensional and there is little chance this late, we are suddenly going to get a run game.  YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO RUN!. Football 101. Our Front office and Coaches failed catastrophically in this regard. What we see is what we get. A talented skill team that is unable to win against good teams because (a) we cannot stop the run and (b) we cannot run or protect the QB.  JA is taking unnecessary punishment that will lead to injuries and him wearing down early in his career.  I have no doubt we have a superstar QB, but this cannot continue. 

We will probably win 3 of 4 (the weak teams) and lose against NE in the same way.  If we make the playoffs we are likely one and done.  The coaching is too good in the NFL, and against better personnel, to have this glaring of a weakness and win. It is not an accident we are 1-5 against good teams. It was clear week one and predictably continued. We are one dimensional and clearly have been figured out. Even Urban Meyer commented how easy our offense was to stop.  That is not good. This team needs a philosophical overhaul this offseason. 

Beane has wasted too many picks on the d line and failed to address the most glaring problem since Big #97 left... we need a monster in the middle.  Neither are we getting sacks from our DE's regularly either.  That is on Beane. Unfortunately, yet again we have to draft at this position. The entire interior of the O line has to be replaced and we need to sign a true blocking TE.  We don't even fully know what we have at RB because they have no chance on most plays. But we probably need an upgrade there as well.  No matter what happens (I predict another close loss in the wildcard game), this offseason is going to make or break our window of opportunity the next few years. All eyes are on Beane and his scouts to fix this and not waste this opportunity.

I am not one that thinks McDermott is the problem.  He is still learning and a young coach and made some errors, but yesterday his adjustments (on defense vs Brady) were some of the best I have seen all year by any team.  I think McDermott is frustrated because he desires a physical team and is quietly embarrassed over this season.  His nature is a physical team and i believe he is not happy with a "soft" team.  You can read it in his pressers.  I don't have any concerns about him as head coach but we have to question the philosophy of our OC at this point. Dabol went from hero to zero.  Good coaches figure out how to adjust.  Don't think Belichek did not build his team first to beat Buffalo and win the division, then how to win without a star QB vs a lot of young and talented QB's in the AFC.  We need to start having a one step ahead mentality.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Gatorman0519

[Thwomp!]

19 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Losing to JAX should have been that wake up call

Opening week should have been the wake up call, when the o-line got blown up all day and the Bills lost a game they should have won.

[Thwomp!]

4 hours ago, inkman said:

That was my take as well.  Where is the camera in regards to the yard marker?  Are we looking from in front of, even with or behind the yard marker.  
 

IMHO, he was stopped at the First Down marker.  Should have been measured. 

Yeah the no measurement thing was weird.  To me it looked a couple inches short where they placed the ball, but then declared a first down.  I was waiting for a measurement.