COVID-19

[LTS]

11 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

But getting vaxed is easy and the downside (serious side effects) are far, far less likely than that ~1%.  Like at least 10,000 times less likely than dying from Covid.

That's true, it's easy.  Easy for you.

It's not easy for others who have have been bred to think differently and act differently. Place different values on different things. People on the outside of cults find it easy to say that the cult is ridiculous, that's it's so obviously bad, yet people end up in cults all the time. They find it hard to leave them.

Changing minds isn't as easy as telling someone to do something or not do something.  I think pointing out that 1% of those who get COVID die is a bad stat.  First, not everyone gets COVID, so it's not even 1% of the population, it's 1% of the population who gets it. So now with basic math we can say it's less than 1%.

If I go to the WHO site, it says roughly 191 million COVID cases, and 4.1 million deaths.  191 million out of an estimated 7.8 billion.  4.1 million out of 7.8 billion people have died.  That's .05% if my horrible math skills are correct.  For a lot of people they look at that number, or the 4.1 million out of 7.8 billion and they don't see an issue.  For others, it's a lot of avoidable death.

All in all, I think we have to understand why people feel the way they do.  Their perceived risk tolerance is high enough for them to warrant not getting the vaccine.

I should also add, that if we are not willing to try and understand why someone thinks the way they do, why should we expect them to try and understand the way we think?

Edited July 22, 2021 by LTS

[Doohickie]

Facts.

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

I should also add, that if we are not willing to try and understand why someone thinks the way they do, why should we expect them to try and understand the way we think?

99% of the non-vaccinated people whom I know simply don't want to do it because they feel it is a form of government control, and then find reasons on social media to try to medically justify their decision.  The other 1% are the true believers in the disinformation.

[PASabreFan]

2 hours ago, LTS said:

That's true, it's easy.  Easy for you.

It's not easy for others who have have been bred to think differently and act differently. Place different values on different things. People on the outside of cults find it easy to say that the cult is ridiculous, that's it's so obviously bad, yet people end up in cults all the time. They find it hard to leave them.

Changing minds isn't as easy as telling someone to do something or not do something.  I think pointing out that 1% of those who get COVID die is a bad stat.  First, not everyone gets COVID, so it's not even 1% of the population, it's 1% of the population who gets it. So now with basic math we can say it's less than 1%.

If I go to the WHO site, it says roughly 191 million COVID cases, and 4.1 million deaths.  191 million out of an estimated 7.8 billion.  4.1 million out of 7.8 billion people have died.  That's .05% if my horrible math skills are correct.  For a lot of people they look at that number, or the 4.1 million out of 7.8 billion and they don't see an issue.  For others, it's a lot of avoidable death.

All in all, I think we have to understand why people feel the way they do.  Their perceived risk tolerance is high enough for them to warrant not getting the vaccine.

I should also add, that if we are not willing to try and understand why someone thinks the way they do, why should we expect them to try and understand the way we think?

Do you acknowledge the stark self-centeredness in this thinking? Do these people also argue for elimination of drunk driving laws?

[Radar]

2 hours ago, LTS said:

That's true, it's easy.  Easy for you.

It's not easy for others who have have been bred to think differently and act differently. Place different values on different things. People on the outside of cults find it easy to say that the cult is ridiculous, that's it's so obviously bad, yet people end up in cults all the time. They find it hard to leave them.

Changing minds isn't as easy as telling someone to do something or not do something.  I think pointing out that 1% of those who get COVID die is a bad stat.  First, not everyone gets COVID, so it's not even 1% of the population, it's 1% of the population who gets it. So now with basic math we can say it's less than 1%.

If I go to the WHO site, it says roughly 191 million COVID cases, and 4.1 million deaths.  191 million out of an estimated 7.8 billion.  4.1 million out of 7.8 billion people have died.  That's .05% if my horrible math skills are correct.  For a lot of people they look at that number, or the 4.1 million out of 7.8 billion and they don't see an issue.  For others, it's a lot of avoidable death.

All in all, I think we have to understand why people feel the way they do.  Their perceived risk tolerance is high enough for them to warrant not getting the vaccine.

I should also add, that if we are not willing to try and understand why someone thinks the way they do, why should we expect them to try and understand the way we think?

Speaking of cults.............

[Doohickie]

43 minutes ago, Radar said:

Speaking of cults.............

?

[LTS]

2 hours ago, Eleven said:

99% of the non-vaccinated people whom I know simply don't want to do it because they feel it is a form of government control, and then find reasons on social media to try to medically justify their decision.  The other 1% are the true believers in the disinformation.

It's only government control if you are forced to vaccinate.  Of course the real motive behind the control thinking is that they were required to wear masks, etc. Which is government control, but not necessarily a bad government control.

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Do you acknowledge the stark self-centeredness in this thinking? Do these people also argue for elimination of drunk driving laws?

100%.  I thought about drunk driving as a great example and I am glad you referenced it. The only difference I see to drunk driving versus vaccination is that one requires you to put something in your system to reduce the risk of harming others while the other requires you to put something in your system to increase the risk of harming others. There might be some difference there (not that I want to put thought into it). I do think, on the surface, that it's similar enough.

1 hour ago, Radar said:

Speaking of cults.............

Not sure what you are getting at.

Edited July 22, 2021 by LTS

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, Eleven said:

99% of the non-vaccinated people whom I know simply don't want to do it because they feel it is a form of government control, and then find reasons on social media to try to medically justify their decision.  The other 1% are the true believers in the disinformation.

Funny...much different for me. Many people I know who are not vaccinated use all those excuses... They say they don't trust the government... They say it's about what's in the vaccine... But push them hard enough and you'll find it something else.

For a good portion it's simply that they don't want to get a shot. They don't like needles. How did I come to that conclusion? If I press them hard enough and ask them if there was a simple pill they could swallow with a glass of water would they still not get it... Many of them said in that case they would get it. Now maybe part of the issue is they don't trust the fillers and preservatives that are getting injected into their bloodstream where with the pill it wouldn't be quite the same, but still a lot of them it's just about the shot.

[drnkirishone]

3 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Funny...much different for me. Many people I know who are not vaccinated use all those excuses... They say they don't trust the government... They say it's about what's in the vaccine... But push them hard enough and you'll find it something else.

For a good portion it's simply that they don't want to get a shot. They don't like needles. How did I come to that conclusion? If I press them hard enough and ask them if there was a simple pill they could swallow with a glass of water would they still not get it... Many of them said in that case they would get it. Now maybe part of the issue is they don't trust the fillers and preservatives that are getting injected into their bloodstream where with the pill it wouldn't be quite the same, but still a lot of them it's just about the shot.

I think it is much easier to figure out. Certain "groups" are using the anti-vac crowd and disinformation to rally and keep support.

When someone's trusted source for information plays recklessly loose with the "facts" and "information" you get an uninformed public that believes lies.

[Eleven]

Chyron on Ch. 2 just now:  "US sees spike in demand for vaccines."  

Finally.

I hope the growing demand remains.

[Weave]

49 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Chyron on Ch. 2 just now:  "US sees spike in demand for vaccines."  

Finally.

I hope the growing demand remains.

Coincidence that it happens alongside Fox News hosts getting vaccinated?

[Eleven]

2 minutes ago, Weave said:

Coincidence that it happens alongside Fox News hosts getting vaccinated?

As a rule, I don't know what Fox "News" "hosts" are doing or not doing so I've no idea.

[miles]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

Chyron on Ch. 2 just now:  "US sees spike in demand for vaccines."  

Finally.

I hope the growing demand remains.

hope so considering i read an article that nearly all the cases happening currently are the unvaccinated. 

[miles]

I keep reading today that the cdc is backing up on their mask recommendations. 

I keep reading that in places that dont have enough vaccinated people they are recommending people wear masks even if you are vaccinated. They are recommending that people get vaccinated to stop this from spreading 

 

My question is... Do vaccines work or dont they? If they work, why wear a mask. If you need to wear a mask even if you have the vaccine, what good is the vaccine. If the vaccine works, we shouldn't need to go back to masks again.

 

As long as they keep doing this flip flop ***** people aren't going to fully trust the vaccine.

i read just yesterday that there was a study that the vaccine is working so well in nj, that 99.92% of these new recent cases are unvaccinated people. If you dont have the vaccine by now, its your own fault if you get covid 

 

I hate to put it like that, but im not going backwards because people wont get the shot. Enough already with the masks. In nj they were required the entire time for covid and we had ridiculous amounts of cases. Theses 1 dollar paper masks clearly don't help enough, why bother mandating,  so you can look like your trying. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Mike Honcho

[pi2000]

1 minute ago, Mike Honcho said:

I keep reading today that the cdc is backing up on their mask recommendations. 

I keep reading that in places that dont have enough vaccinated people they are recommending people wear masks even if you are vaccinated. They are recommending that people get vaccinated to stop this from spreading 

 

My question is... Do vaccines work or dont they? If they work, why wear a mask. If you need to wear a mask even if you have the vaccine, what good is the vaccine. If the vaccine works, we shouldn't need to go back to masks again.

 

As long as they keep doing this flip flop ***** people aren't going to fully trust the vaccine.

i read just yesterday that there was a study that the vaccine is working so well in nj, that 99.92% of these new recent cases are unvaccinated people. If you dont have the vaccine by now, its your own fault if you get covid 

 

I hate to put it like that, but im not going backwards because people wont get the shot 

Think of the vaccine as a seatbelt and you're driving through a dangerous stretch of highway.    In most cases the seatbelt will save your life if you have an accident.   

Think of a mask as a helmet.   Now why would I need a helmet if I'm wearing a seatbelt?  For most wearing a seatbelt is enough, but there's still a slim chance you may sustain a fatal head injury. 

[miles]

17 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Think of the vaccine as a seatbelt and you're driving through a dangerous stretch of highway.    In most cases the seatbelt will save your life if you have an accident.   

Think of a mask as a helmet.   Now why would I need a helmet if I'm wearing a seatbelt?  For most wearing a seatbelt is enough, but there's still a slim chance you may sustain a fatal head injury. 

 

i think of it more like wearing suspenders when you have a belt on. you shouldnt need both. 

[wingnut]

28 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

I keep reading today that the cdc is backing up on their mask recommendations. 

I keep reading that in places that dont have enough vaccinated people they are recommending people wear masks even if you are vaccinated. They are recommending that people get vaccinated to stop this from spreading 

 

My question is... Do vaccines work or dont they? If they work, why wear a mask. If you need to wear a mask even if you have the vaccine, what good is the vaccine. If the vaccine works, we shouldn't need to go back to masks again.

 

As long as they keep doing this flip flop ***** people aren't going to fully trust the vaccine.

i read just yesterday that there was a study that the vaccine is working so well in nj, that 99.92% of these new recent cases are unvaccinated people. If you dont have the vaccine by now, its your own fault if you get covid 

 

I hate to put it like that, but im not going backwards because people wont get the shot. Enough already with the masks. In nj they were required the entire time for covid and we had ridiculous amounts of cases. Theses 1 dollar paper masks clearly don't help enough, why bother mandating,  so you can look like your trying. 

If I understand it correctly, being vaccinated doesn't prevent me from getting/spreading the virus. It protects me against serious illness or death if I get the virus. If I still live in a population center that is 50% unvaccinated, this would be the reasoning for continuing to wear a mask while in indoor public places. I may have enough antibodies to prevent serious illness to my own person, but I can still contract the virus and transmit to others. This will result in it continuing to spread an mutate.

[miles]

9 minutes ago, wingnut said:

If I understand it correctly, being vaccinated doesn't prevent me from getting/spreading the virus. It protects me against serious illness or death if I get the virus. If I still live in a population center that is 50% unvaccinated, this would be the reasoning for continuing to wear a mask while in indoor public places. I may have enough antibodies to prevent serious illness to my own person, but I can still contract the virus and transmit to others. This will result in it continuing to spread an mutate.

 

so if i get vaccinated like i am "supposed to do", im now supposed to continue to wear one for the people that havent done what they are supposed to do. if it was still hard to get vaccinated, i would agree 100%. The government has resorted to bribing people to get it, and they still dont. at this point, its their own fault if they get covid.

 

again, i hate to put it like that, but enough is enough. i lived for over year in practically complete isolation, only going out when absolutely required...as i was supposed to. millions of people have gotten the vaccine, and yet i keep hearing, its not approved, we dont know long term side effects, etc. this is the largest test of any medical trial in history. 

 

also, as i mentioned previously, in nj masks were required the entire time, and yet nj had one of the highest rates of transmission of any state. i dont think these cheapo masks do anything. 

 

enough of this nonsense of not getting the vaccine

Edited July 27, 2021 by Mike Honcho

[darksabre]

If I have to go back to wearing a mask because people couldn't be bothered to get something so mundane as a vaccine please understand that I will lose my mind. I will go completely insane.

[wingnut]

24 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

 

so if i get vaccinated like i am "supposed to do", im now supposed to continue to wear one for the people that havent done what they are supposed to do. if it was still hard to get vaccinated, i would agree 100%. The government has resorted to bribing people to get it, and they still dont. at this point, its their own fault if they get covid.

 

again, i hate to put it like that, but enough is enough. i lived for over year in practically complete isolation, only going out when absolutely required...as i was supposed to. millions of people have gotten the vaccine, and yet i keep hearing, its not approved, we dont know long term side effects, etc. this is the largest test of any medical trial in history. 

 

also, as i mentioned previously, in nj masks were required the entire time, and yet nj had one of the highest rates of transmission of any state. i dont think these cheapo masks do anything. 

 

enough of this nonsense of not getting the vaccine

Just trying to answer the question posed as to why. I think the reasoning is the virus continues to spread and mutate due to unvaccinated population, and not wearing a mask when indoors can aid in transmission, whether you are vaccinated or not. Not telling anyone what to do.

[miles]

7 minutes ago, wingnut said:

Just trying to answer the question posed as to why. I think the reasoning is the virus continues to spread and mutate due to unvaccinated population, and not wearing a mask when indoors can aid in transmission, whether you are vaccinated or not. Not telling anyone what to do.

i get you. i wasnt trying to give you grief, sorry if it seemed like it.   im just so sick of the nonsense with covid. i keep reading that even with delta, the vaccine protection from getting sick is good. thats good enough for me.  

 

from everything i have been reading on different forums, in general, people who are vaccinated are genuinely tired of unvaccinated people causing this grief. i know i am. in nj there are like 700 cases and the story i read was that 99.92% were unvaccinated. im not going back to a mask.   i will literally order everything online and just not go into stores if they require masks again.  doordash can bring my food, i dont need no stinking restaurants either 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Mike Honcho

[Cascade Youth]

10 minutes ago, darksabre said:

If I have to go back to wearing a mask because people couldn't be bothered to get something so mundane as a vaccine please understand that I will lose my mind. I will go completely insane.

This is where I'm at.  The "idiot tax" in this country is becoming unacceptably high.

[wingnut]

3 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

i get you. i wasnt trying to give you grief, sorry if it seemed like it.   im just so sick of the nonsense with covid. i keep reading that even with delta, the vaccine protection from getting sick is good. thats good enough for me.  

 

from everything i have been reading on different forums, in general, people who are vaccinated are genuinely tired of unvaccinated people causing this grief. i know i am. in nj there are like 700 cases and the story i read was that 99.92% were unvaccinated. im not going back to a mask.   i will literally order everything online and just not go into stores if they require masks again. 

No worries. We've all had a long year +. This hasn't seemed to bring forth the same community effort I've seen in the various places I've lived when a natural disaster hits, whether it's snow, ice, floods, typhoons, forest fires, hurricanes, etc.

[darksabre]

6 minutes ago, Cascade Youth said:

This is where I'm at.  The "idiot tax" in this country is becoming unacceptably high.

My life changed dramatically right before the pandemic started. I spent a lot of time during the pandemic reflecting and trying to figure out what my life would look like when things went "back to normal". It's hard to make decisions when the whole planet is living in some kind of paralyzed stasis. The vaccine is a miracle that let us get back to normal so much sooner and with so much less death and destruction than would otherwise have occurred.

I am NOT going back in the f*ckin box. I am NOT putting my life back on hold again because a bunch of slackjawed morons couldn't be bothered to do the right thing.

[Cascade Youth]

1 minute ago, darksabre said:

My life changed dramatically right before the pandemic started. I spent a lot of time during the pandemic reflecting and trying to figure out what my life would look like when things went "back to normal". It's hard to make decisions when the whole planet is living in some kind of paralyzed stasis. The vaccine is a miracle that let us get back to normal so much sooner and with so much less death and destruction than would otherwise have occurred.

I am NOT going back in the f*ckin box. I am NOT putting my life back on hold again because a bunch of slackjawed morons couldn't be bothered to do the right thing.

Couldn't agree more.  It's a freakin' zombie apocalypse.  If kids start getting critically sick and dying from a variant allowed to spread because of anti-vaxx lunacy, there is going to be an outright civil war.