GDT - Devils @ Sabres, 7:00pm MSG, 1/8/2019

[LGR4GM]

I think we just disagree on this in general. We look at it from very different viewpoints. 

[SwampD]

14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

As soon as any entry is met by a defender it is over... because you have A entered the zone and B need to pass the puck. 

Ah, okay. Semantics again. Let be more literal for you. The play created by our zone entry is over the second our less physical forwards are met by the opposing D.

I just don't believe that the reason our secondary scoring sucks is because of the opposing teams forecheck.

On a positive note, I think our d zone play is light years ahead of last year.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, SwampD said:

Ah, okay. Semantics again. Let be more literal for you. The play created by our zone entry is over the second our less physical forwards are met by the opposing D.

I just don't believe that the reason our secondary scoring sucks is because of the opposing teams forecheck.

I guess I don't see how physicality has anything to do with a zone entry. Most zone entries don't involve body checks. 

Our secondary scoring sucks because we have less talent not because of physicality. 

[SwampD]

23 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I guess I don't see how physicality has anything to do with a zone entry. Most zone entries don't involve body checks. 

Our secondary scoring sucks because we have less talent not because of physicality. 

Guys are rubbed into the half boards upon entry all the time. When it happens to Jack or Samson (even Larsson, often), they are still able to make a play or even maintain the play. 

Sheary ends up on the ice almost every time. As do others.

[North Buffalo]

27 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I guess I don't see how physicality has anything to do with a zone entry. Most zone entries don't involve body checks. 

Our secondary scoring sucks because we have less talent not because of physicality. 

Physicality has a component there.  OK is physical and so is Girgenson but lack talent.  Guys like Mitts and Sam early on in his career were not physical enough and TT tried but was awkward on his feet.  Sheary tries but isnt quite big enough and Pommer doesnt have it anymore.  Sobotka can be but doesnt have enough talent.  I think most of the time its attitude and being physical enough.  Larry and Skinner are physical.  Larry on pure nastiness and Skinner on pure hustle with attitude (pest) Its not size but enough size and talent.  I think Casey gets there but probably next year.  Erod to me is a tweener not quite there, but close.

[Pimlach]

Listening to JBot on WGR postgame last night. 

 

No exact quotes but relative to secondary scoring he indicated the forwards have to work hard and find a way to manufacture goals, like they did last night.  The problem with that is  our competition will be much better than the NJ Devils on most nights.   He specifically said he is not looking at sacrificing first round picks for potential/temporary help.  Sounded like he is counting on HCPH to coach up what he has, the picks are part of a long term plan.

 

 

[Taro T]

9 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Listening to JBot on WGR postgame last night. 

 

No exact quotes but relative to secondary scoring he indicated the forwards have to work hard and find a way to manufacture goals, like they did last night.  The problem with that is  our competition will be much better than the NJ Devils on most nights.   He specifically said he is not looking at sacrificing first round picks for potential/temporary help.  Sounded like he is counting on HCPH to coach up what he has, the picks are part of a long term plan.

 

 

Thanks for the recap.

One thing to point out is, though people here very much want to see reinforcement brought in.  Nobody has been advocating giving up any of the 1st rounders for temporary help.

[North Buffalo]

6 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Listening to JBot on WGR postgame last night. 

 

No exact quotes but relative to secondary scoring he indicated the forwards have to work hard and find a way to manufacture goals, like they did last night.  The problem with that is  our competition will be much better than the NJ Devils on most nights.   He specifically said he is not looking at sacrificing first round picks for potential/temporary help.  Sounded like he is counting on HCPH to coach up what he has, the picks are part of a long term plan.

 

 

Yeh I heard that too.

[...]

12 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Listening to JBot on WGR postgame last night. 

No exact quotes but relative to secondary scoring he indicated the forwards have to work hard and find a way to manufacture goals, like they did last night.  The problem with that is  our competition will be much better than the NJ Devils on most nights.   He specifically said he is not looking at sacrificing first round picks for potential/temporary help.  Sounded like he is counting on HCPH to coach up what he has, the picks are part of a long term plan.

I think the current conversation is right on the money: the forwards are going to have to learn how to play against a heavy game.  What JBots is seeing is who can do that and who can not.

[pi2000]

8 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Thanks for the recap.

One thing to point out is, though people here very much want to see reinforcement brought in.  Nobody has been advocating giving up any of the 1st rounders for temporary help.

Need another Skinner type deal... a middling prospect, and a pick or two for a legit NHL contributor.      However, those types are deals are typically to be had during the offseason.    In season, the price will be much higher... which is why I think he waits out the season and tries for another bargain in the summer.    

[Doohickie]

23 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

I think most of the time its attitude and being physical enough.  Larry and Skinner are physical.

Larry is physical.  Skinner... not so much.  He's athletic but he gets tossed around like a ragdoll.  But he knows how to cope with that and keep the play alive, and like you said, his hustle and attitude... and I'll add determination... makes him effective.  Same with Jack and Sam:  When they are determined and don't give up on a play, they're highly effective.  Skinner is the poster boy for that though.  You'll see an opponent slap the puck away from him but he goes right back after it and gets it before the other guy can control it.  Jack does that too.  I think it's one of the things that sets them apart and makes them our best players.  Sam is good at that, but not to the degree that Skinner and Eichel are.

One of the differences I've noticed in Thompson's play is that he's been more determined as well, and doesn't give up on a play as easily as he used to.  It's almost as if the player as to adopt the attitude of HEY, THAT'S MY PUCK!

[Tondas]

Tage is really coming along.  Confidence is a tricky thing.  However , my impression is that Tage now feels as though he belongs in the NHL.   Every game he seems to get at least 1 grade A chance.  Thus far he has just missed a few.  I think they will start going in more frequently in the future.   You always hear goals scorers say that they would be concerned if they stopped get chances.  Tage is certainly getting his chances.  Hopefully in time, Tage is the "steal" of the ROR trade.

[North Buffalo]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Larry is physical.  Skinner... not so much.  He's athletic but he gets tossed around like a ragdoll.  But he knows how to cope with that and keep the play alive, and like you said, his hustle and attitude... and I'll add determination... makes him effective.  Same with Jack and Sam:  When they are determined and don't give up on a play, they're highly effective.  Skinner is the poster boy for that though.  You'll see an opponent slap the puck away from him but he goes right back after it and gets it before the other guy can control it.  Jack does that too.  I think it's one of the things that sets them apart and makes them our best players.  Sam is good at that, but not to the degree that Skinner and Eichel are.

One of the differences I've noticed in Thompson's play is that he's been more determined as well, and doesn't give up on a play as easily as he used to.  It's almost as if the player as to adopt the attitude of HEY, THAT'S MY PUCK!

Agreed Thompson is much improving in that area and yeh Skinner gets tossed around, I used physical meaning toughness... he goes after the puck and other players too, you used determined... in my mind same thing but would add his size doesnt preclude Skinner from being physical even if it means he takes the beating and it serves a purpose.

[Doohickie]

Yeah, I think we're using different words to describe the same kind of intangible thing.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, Tondas said:

Tage is really coming along.  Confidence is a tricky thing.  However , my impression is that Tage now feels as though he belongs in the NHL.   Every game he seems to get at least 1 grade A chance.  Thus far he has just missed a few.  I think they will start going in more frequently in the future.   You always hear goals scorers say that they would be concerned if they stopped get chances.  Tage is certainly getting his chances.  Hopefully in time, Tage is the "steal" of the ROR trade.

And what do guys like Sobotka say? LOL

Just being a smart ***, don't mind me. 

[Weave]

5 hours ago, ... said:

I think that list makes sense, except Angry Larry.  I think he manages just fine.  I would be far more worried about Mitts and Pilut.  Dahlin evades every big check, so he's fine. I don't think Mitts does and he's one of the guys who concerns me the most during a heavy game.  He, Sheary and Pilut.  ERod can take the hit, but I think during a heavy game he seems to stretch out as far as possible to poke/stick check.  Pominville still plays a soft game, but I have seen him lay a few solid hits this season, which surprised me.

I think Sam is pretty negatively affected by teams that play heavy as well.  It's the only criticism I have of him TBH.

[inkman]

51 minutes ago, Weave said:

I think Sam is pretty negatively affected by teams that play heavy as well.  It's the only criticism I have of him TBH.

I do not share this opinion. 

5 hours ago, North Buffalo said:

Physicality

This word can get shot right into the sun. It drives me nuts.

[JJFIVEOH]

18 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

We tried the "ride it out" plan and dropped like a stone down the rankings. Skinner can score on his own. Split them up. 

Skinner - Erod/Mitts/Sobotka - Thompson

Smith - Eichel - Reinhart/Thompson

Sheary - Leftovers - Okposo

Zegmus - Larsson - Pommers

I don't think they dropped down the rankings because of them. I think they got lucky, and very fortunate, to have that win streak. 

The problem isn't them, it's the lack of secondary scoring. 

Nice to see Pilut and CJ get their first goal last game, hence the win. They will have secondary scoring soon. But you can't break up what might be the best line in the NHL in hopes of creating more secondary scoring. You just have to wait for the secondary scorers to mature and provide, It will happen. I'm going to hate it when they don't make the playoffs, but this is a serious turnaround from what we've been watching. I expect to be a contender very soon, but at this point I'm just happy to be entertained. Sabres and Panthers are my 1A and 1B teams, what I'm seeing out of the Sabres now is what I saw out of the Panthers the second half of last year. 

Now, what I'm seeing out of the Panthers is just garbage. But, that's a different story for another day. Probably better for it to be in around the NHL. 

[North Buffalo]

13 hours ago, inkman said:

I do not share this opinion. 

This word can get shot right into the sun. It drives me nuts.

? not sure I understand?  covers determination but also a bit of nasty and willingness to mix it up...

[North Buffalo]

4 hours ago, JJFIVEOH said:

I don't think they dropped down the rankings because of them. I think they got lucky, and very fortunate, to have that win streak. 

The problem isn't them, it's the lack of secondary scoring. 

Nice to see Pilut and CJ get their first goal last game, hence the win. They will have secondary scoring soon. But you can't break up what might be the best line in the NHL in hopes of creating more secondary scoring. You just have to wait for the secondary scorers to mature and provide, It will happen. I'm going to hate it when they don't make the playoffs, but this is a serious turnaround from what we've been watching. I expect to be a contender very soon, but at this point I'm just happy to be entertained. Sabres and Panthers are my 1A and 1B teams, what I'm seeing out of the Sabres now is what I saw out of the Panthers the second half of last year. 

Now, what I'm seeing out of the Panthers is just garbage. But, that's a different story for another day. Probably better for it to be in around the NHL. 

I think you put Sam with a guy who can shoot maybe TT and Mitts and put Nylander or Oloffson with Skins and Jack.  I know top three have chemistry but as many have said Sabres need at least a second scoring line.  Or maybe stick Erod with Mitts and Sam.  Not sure but think Housley needs to find two sets of Combos that work.

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, JJFIVEOH said:

I don't think they dropped down the rankings because of them. I think they got lucky, and very fortunate, to have that win streak. 

The problem isn't them, it's the lack of secondary scoring. 

Nice to see Pilut and CJ get their first goal last game, hence the win. They will have secondary scoring soon. But you can't break up what might be the best line in the NHL in hopes of creating more secondary scoring. You just have to wait for the secondary scorers to mature and provide, It will happen. I'm going to hate it when they don't make the playoffs, but this is a serious turnaround from what we've been watching. I expect to be a contender very soon, but at this point I'm just happy to be entertained. Sabres and Panthers are my 1A and 1B teams, what I'm seeing out of the Sabres now is what I saw out of the Panthers the second half of last year. 

Now, what I'm seeing out of the Panthers is just garbage. But, that's a different story for another day. Probably better for it to be in around the NHL. 

And if you move Reinhart to line 2 you might get secondary scoring while literally having a negligible impact on Skinner and Eichel. 

[That Aud Smell]

14 hours ago, Weave said:

I think Sam is pretty negatively affected by teams that play heavy as well.  It's the only criticism I have of him TBH.

13 hours ago, inkman said:

I do not share this opinion. 

I'll be on the lookout for this. I think Sam's strong on his skates. My sense has been that he might do a bit better with a heavier team than he does with a fast team.

 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

And if you move Reinhart to line 2 you might get secondary scoring while literally having a negligible impact on Skinner and Eichel. 

Remember when Jack had 4 goals?

I’m OK with moving Sam - or Jeff - away from Jack, at least temporarily.

But idea that Jack doesn’t benefit from playing with Sam is as silly as saying Sam doesn’t benefit from playing with Jack. Sam can get the puck to Jack in scoring positions better than anyone else.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Remember when Jack had 4 goals?

I’m OK with moving Sam - or Jeff - away from Jack, at least temporarily.

But idea that Jack doesn’t benefit from playing with Sam is as silly as saying Sam doesn’t benefit from playing with Jack. Sam can get the puck to Jack in scoring positions better than anyone else.

Yes, I remember when Jack Eichel had a sh% of 5.1 which was ludicrously low. I will go get the 5v5 WOWY info. 

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 hour ago, North Buffalo said:

? not sure I understand?  covers determination but also a bit of nasty and willingness to mix it up...

It's not a real word in the English language.  It's just made up.

If there is one thing I can say about Inky, other than the obvious, is that he really knows his English very goodly.  Yup.