Kane traded to San Jose for a Cond. ‘19 1st, Dan O’ Regan and Conditional 4th

[Sabre fan]

The list of GMTM mistakes grows longer by the day !

 

At this point, Okposo is on that list, too

 

The Moulson signing was wrong on many levels, term too high, his value peaked in a year we wanted to tank

to be fair that darn John Tavares made both Moulson and Okposo look so darn good, just as he is doing with Lee now. At the time most everybody including the "experts" on TSN and Sportsnet applauded these signings and made it sound like Buffalo were getting possibly the best free agents in the years they signed with us...

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Kane says goodbye until we meet again. Pretty classy IMO:

 

https://twitter.com/evanderkane_9/status/968251550564077571

 

That was pretty classy of him.

 

And, you know what, I really do believe him.

[Thwomp!]

I think the biggest thing that posters here are missing is that Kane's just not that good. Sure, there will be glimpses and stretches here and there, but he's been overrated his whole career. People easily forget how bad he was that first year here in Buffalo. He's probably overpaid now for what you get and he'll almost surely be overpaid by someone this summer. We got what we could for him.

 

I also tend to think that what GMTM gave up for him affects fans' opinions of his value. I'm sure that if the Sabres weren't in the position they were with the GM they had at the time we traded for him that he would have been traded for the same, or very likely less, than what JBots just traded him for.

 

Oh, and we also got the cap anchor Bogo, who is really, really not good. I chuckle every time someone says look for a bounce back from him. Every single year. He'll be injured most of the rest of his Buffalo career, and when he does play he'll suck. He's been here long enough so that this should be more evident.

[Samson's Flow]

Hopefully O'Regan doesn't have the same debilitating disease Hodgson had.

Bigger O, but no D.

 

We can change his name to 'Regan if he sucks.

[Samson's Flow]

It's like the new guy on a team has never had an amazing first game before ever.

 

I hope San Jose is a good fit for him. They're a better team overall and maybe he even has some natural chemistry.

 

But let's see what things look like in 10 games or so.

Remember Brad Boyes, Raffi Torres, Steve Bernier and Dainus Zubrus? They were all great in their first games and then did nothing for the rest of the season.

[Gramps]

Okposo wasn’t the mistake, signing Moulson 5 for $5m was.

 

IMO, most long-term deals are mistakes when the player has reached 28-32 years old.

[Marvelo]

Fair... sort of. That they share only a last name is kind of a low blow. Evander is closing in on 200 career goals. He's been a 20-goal scorer with the Sabres. His ceiling is, what? 30-35 goals. He's big, fast and nasty. These guys are not a dime a dozen, yet the Sabres had to take some sticks and $5 off if you spend $25 coupons for him. A little curious?

 

https://grief.com/the-five-stages-of-grief/

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Remember Brad Boyes, Raffi Torres, Steve Bernier and Dainus Zubrus? They were all great in their first games and then did nothing for the rest of the season.

 

No, but I do remember you being Touched by Boyes ........

 

:flirt:

Too young to remember Punch?

 

(of course he did waste a pick on a non-existent Asian player once just for giggles)

 

Drafting Taro was one of the best things the Sabres ever did.  I put it a close second to helping Mogilny defect.

 

The long lasting legacy of the draft pick landed here on Sabrespace many years ago and we are all the better for it.

[dudacek]

The list of GMTM mistakes grows longer by the day !

 

At this point, Okposo is on that list, too.

You do know that Okposo has scored at a rate of 2 points every 3 games since we signed him, despite a life-threatening condition?

[GASabresIUFAN]

You do know that Okposo has scored at a rate of 2 points every 3 games since we signed him, despite a life-threatening condition?

I have a long list of TM blunders, but KO isn’t on that list and never will be. What is sad is that KO was the perfect type of player to get us to the next level if he had been added to a good team. Sadly he got added to a team with a poor defense and no depth.

[Georgia Blizzard]

You do know that Okposo has scored at a rate of 2 points every 3 games since we signed him, despite a life-threatening condition?

 

 

I have a long list of TM blunders, but KO isn’t on that list and never will be. What is sad is that KO was the perfect type of player to get us to the next level if he had been added to a good team. Sadly he got added to a team with a poor defense and no depth.

 

 

I did say "at this point".  His ppg ranks outside the top 100 and his salary ranks inside the top 60, so, he's under-performing based on what he's being paid.  Yes, the team around him sucks and he's dealt with injuries, but bottom line is bottom line.

 

I also can think of several more egregious GMTM decisions pretty quickly, so, I won't die on my sword on this one

[Stoner]

Drafting Taro was one of the best things the Sabres ever did.  I put it a close second to helping Mogilny defect.

 

The long lasting legacy of the draft pick landed here on Sabrespace many years ago and we are all the better for it.

I'm going to eventually create a thread on the subject in the hope that someone of importance will see it, but as a sneak peak: if the Buffalo Sabres don't retire Taro Tsujimoto's number during their 50th celebration, or at least put him in their Hall of Fame, they are fools. How much fun would that be?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I'm going to eventually create a thread on the subject in the hope that someone of importance will see it, but as a sneak peak: if the Buffalo Sabres don't retire Taro Tsujimoto's number during their 50th celebration, or at least put him in their Hall of Fame, they are fools. How much fun would that be?

 

That would be great.  DO IT!!

[Taro T]

I'm going to eventually create a thread on the subject in the hope that someone of importance will see it, but as a sneak peak: if the Buffalo Sabres don't retire Taro Tsujimoto's number during their 50th celebration, or at least put him in their Hall of Fame, they are fools. How much fun would that be?

Can Jiri Dudacek go in that day as well?

[Stoner]

Can Jiri Dudacek go in that day as well?

That wouldn't be terrible. I wonder if he's been to Buffalo. Bring Jiri home!

[mjd1001]

Okposo and O'Reilly signings were mistakes.  O'Reilly can still be decent, but a player as slow as him who produces what he does at even strength is no where near what he is signed for, and for a long time.  Okposo is simply overpayed for what he is now..and he isn't getting any younger or faster.

 

As far as this entire trade goes...I'm slightly disappointed with the return, but not in a big way. What did we want..a guaranteed 1st round pick that was going to be 20+?  What does that turn out to be. Sure, its better than a 2nd, but It likely isn't going to be a great player. I looked back at the last 10-12 drafts (I think I stopped when I got to 2007), and there were a total of 4 players taken after pick 20 in the first round that turned into all-stars...and they were the 1-time all star players, not league superstars. 

 

The Sabres need more cracks at the top players so they can have a few that turn into something, but i'm not going to lose sleep over not getting a lot more for Kane.

Edited February 28, 2018 by mjd1001

[dudacek]

I'm going to eventually create a thread on the subject in the hope that someone of importance will see it, but as a sneak peak: if the Buffalo Sabres don't retire Taro Tsujimoto's number during their 50th celebration, or at least put him in their Hall of Fame, they are fools. How much fun would that be?

 

This is a fabulous idea.

 

Can Jiri Dudacek go in that day as well?

I’m honoured Taro, but certainly you are in a league of your own.

Another year perhaps.

 

(I think I’m overdue to change the user name back.

A little disappointed no one in the Internet’s largest group of Sabre nerds got the reference of the current one, but I guess it’s pretty damn obscure.)

Edited March 1, 2018 by Mick O’Manly

[Brawndo]

From Friedman’s 31Thoughts Today

 

11. Buffalo GM Jason Botterill took heat for not getting a guaranteed first-rounder in exchange for Evander Kane. Word is one other team raised the possibility of a first-round pick for the winger three or four days prior to the deadline, but pulled the offer when something else came up. That left Botterill with San Jose’s Doug Wilson, who can grind with the best of them.

 

Botterill had a choice: take what he could or lose Kane for nothing. Look at the deals where opening-round selections were included. Tampa gave up two (potentially) for McDonagh and J.T. Miller. Both have term or team control. Vegas gave up one for Tomas Tatar, still with term. Chicago got one for Ryan Hartman, a restricted free agent. (There was a lot of interest in him.)

 

Pittsburgh gave up one for Brassard, with another year on his contract. Only two UFAs featured such a return — Rick Nash and Paul Stastny. Botterill tried to build a market, but Kane simply wasn’t as highly valued as Nash. As for Stastny, teams generally don’t ask players to waive full no-trade clauses without reason. Winnipeg gave St. Louis one.

 

12. There was some indication the Sabres could have gotten a better deal if they moved Kane last summer, but I remembered something Botterill said not long after taking the job. He discussed how you have to be careful to not make decisions based on what you heard, as opposed to what you see. One of Buffalo’s recent issues is spending so much on bad fits. Clearly, they made the choice to find out firsthand what they had. There wasn’t a market for Robin Lehner, either. If Botterill’s discovered anything, it’s that this is a much bigger rebuild than he thought.

[IKnowPhysics]

It can be rationalized all day long.  And I'm not even really mad at Botterill, because I do understand the rationale.  But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed about the fact we got dick for a 30 goal scorer who performed among the best players on the team.

 

I think it comes down to bad timing on Botterill's part on two counts.  First, and not his fault, the timing of his arrival with regard to Kane's term.  Botterill wanted to do a wait and see on all the players, so it wouldn't make sense to jump the gun and re-sign Kane right away.  But he couldn't get much return for a player with no term when didn't like what he found.  He could have done a sign and trade, but that carries hefty risk.  Second, he didn't pull the trigger when he was offered a first last week.  He had been shopping Kane for a while, and if he wasn't familiar enough with the market for Kane to know when to bite, that's on him.  Maybe that team pulled the rug out from under him and gave the wrong/no impression of soft deadline, but the return was available at some point.

[PerreaultForever]

I wouldn't call either the ROR or KO signings mistakes, but I do think both were overpaid and the KO contract will hurt more in terms of return after year 3.   KO isn't a terrible player (like Moulson) but I'm not sure his style fits well with what they want to do here. If they could get a decent return I would trade him for more speed. ROR I trade IF there is a leadership locker room problem, otherwise no. 

[Ducky]

Kaner didn't help himself by crapping the bed for the last how many weeks?

Believe me when I say that the Sabres are a better team without him.

The racism angle is a load of crap, especially in Winnipeg. The most popular Jet is not Laine, it is Buff. He was a cancer in the locker room and we have some very strong leaders in there. He was playing his rock star image and his team mates had enough of it and pretty much forced Chevy to trade him. Be glad with what you got for him and move on.

GMJB is not GMTM in any way, shape or form. He isn't going to try to rebuild this team in a season or two. He'll pick out the core players he wants to move ahead with and target other ones around the league and try to make a pitch for them. He will also trim the fat a bit. The one thing he won't do is give up high draft picks (until you're contending) like the last GM.

[Marvelo]

The Kane deal kind of reminds me of the Dareus deal...dump the talented misfit even if it means losing the transaction. I tend not to believe Botterill when he said the owner wasn't involved in the decision....Kane produced but with our untalented players and unstable team structure surrounding him, he wasn't being maximized here. Plus he wasn't going to get  $7-8 million for being a 20-30 goal scorer on a losing team, not with his history...The days of overpaying misfits are hopefully finally over for the Sabres. Now that Kane's on a good team, I think he will finally become the high scoring power forward he was always meant to be. I see great things ahead for Evander Kane with the Sharks. It wasn't going to happen in Buffalo...

[Rasmus_]

Kane does remind you of the me first genre of athlete with his shoot first mentality.  However, you can always handle one in a crowd.  He did nothing this season that warranted him being a misfit.  He say the "writing in the sand", and acted like a true professional.  He did a lot of quality work in the community and while he didn't have the greatest earliest start to his Sabre career, he made them have some bite.  We need the bite, without the glamour attitude.  For all his dings and dents, I was a Kane fan as a Vancouver Giant, as an Atlanta Thrasher, as a Winnipeg Jet and finally a Buffalo Sabre.  I love the way he plays the game on both sides.  So here's a glass raised to you Evander.  Rock the west coast and enjoy some playoff sun.  The Sabres need to get back to reality and remember there is gravity.  Develop a team first approach and work hard.  Botterill still is the right man for the job.  One diva out, a team in. Following this season we can purge:  Gorges, Nolan (DO NOT RE-SIGN), and the other one year signings.  Following the 18-19 season, we lose Moulson and Pominville's cap, which will be the first plucking of strings to get the situation back under par. 

[jsb]

The Kane deal kind of reminds me of the Dareus deal...dump the talented misfit even if it means losing the transaction. I tend not to believe Botterill when he said the owner wasn't involved in the decision....Kane produced but with our untalented players and unstable team structure surrounding him, he wasn't being maximized here. Plus he wasn't going to get  $7-8 million for being a 20-30 goal scorer on a losing team, not with his history...The days of overpaying misfits are hopefully finally over for the Sabres. Now that Kane's on a good team, I think he will finally become the high scoring power forward he was always meant to be. I see great things ahead for Evander Kane with the Sharks. It wasn't going to happen in Buffalo...

I agree with everything you said there except the 7-8 million. If his trade value was that low, no-one is going to turn around and give him 7-8 million with the possible exception of San Jose and ONLY if he becomes a total stud for the rest of this season and the playoffs.

[GASabresIUFAN]

From Friedman’s 31Thoughts Today

 

11. Buffalo GM Jason Botterill took heat for not getting a guaranteed first-rounder in exchange for Evander Kane. Word is one other team raised the possibility of a first-round pick for the winger three or four days prior to the deadline, but pulled the offer when something else came up. That left Botterill with San Jose’s Doug Wilson, who can grind with the best of them.

 

Botterill had a choice: take what he could or lose Kane for nothing. Look at the deals where opening-round selections were included. Tampa gave up two (potentially) for McDonagh and J.T. Miller. Both have term or team control. Vegas gave up one for Tomas Tatar, still with term. Chicago got one for Ryan Hartman, a restricted free agent. (There was a lot of interest in him.)

 

Pittsburgh gave up one for Brassard, with another year on his contract. Only two UFAs featured such a return — Rick Nash and Paul Stastny. Botterill tried to build a market, but Kane simply wasn’t as highly valued as Nash. As for Stastny, teams generally don’t ask players to waive full no-trade clauses without reason. Winnipeg gave St. Louis one.

 

12. There was some indication the Sabres could have gotten a better deal if they moved Kane last summer, but I remembered something Botterill said not long after taking the job. He discussed how you have to be careful to not make decisions based on what you heard, as opposed to what you see. One of Buffalo’s recent issues is spending so much on bad fits. Clearly, they made the choice to find out firsthand what they had. There wasn’t a market for Robin Lehner, either. If Botterill’s discovered anything, it’s that this is a much bigger rebuild than he thought.

This is a very fair explanation of what happened.  The trade still stinks and the fact Wilson grinded on Jbot makes perfect sense.  In the end it is what it is and we can all thank TM for the great job he did and hope and pray that Jbot can fix the mess that is the Buffalo Sabres rebuild.  As I said before, this rebuild is now in the hands for the development folks.  If we are to keep this Titanic from sinking, Mittelstadt, Guhle, Nylander, Asplund, Pu and a few others are going to have to arrive over the next two years in Buffalo and make an immediate impact.  

 

There are so few player assets worth anything in Buffalo, besides Jack, Sam and Risto (none of which Jbot can part with), that drafting and developing is the only strategy left to build this team.