Drunkard Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Moulsons actually dollar value is less then his cap. If a team wants to get to the cap floor, they could trade for Moulson. Do signing bonuses get paid on the first day of the league year? This year Moulson's base salary is $3 million with a $2 million signing bonus so depending on when the bonus gets paid his actual money paid still equals his cap hit. Next season his base salary is $2 million with a $1 million signing bonus so if bonuses get paid on the first day of the league year or something like that, we may be able to get a bargain bin team to bite after we pay his bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Do signing bonuses get paid on the first day of the league year? This year Moulson's base salary is $3 million with a $2 million signing bonus so depending on when the bonus gets paid his actual money paid still equals his cap hit. Next season his base salary is $2 million with a $1 million signing bonus so if bonuses get paid on the first day of the league year or something like that, we may be able to get a bargain bin team to bite after we pay his bonus. And there's also the option of retaining part of his salary. I don't know how that applies to cap hit vs. actual $'s, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millbank Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 I would hope there is no extension at all for Kane . Rather he have outstanding season he be then used as piece of after Christmas trade as team knows better their needs going forward after a few months with new management, coach and system. I don’t trust his character worthy of large investment . If he plays well he could reap some useful options to help build this team better . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marions Piazza Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 I would hope there is no extension at all for Kane . Rather he have outstanding season he be then used as piece of after Christmas trade as team knows better their needs going forward after a few months with new management, coach and system. I don’t trust his character worthy of large investment . If he plays well he could reap some useful options to help build this team better . If Kane is having an outstanding season, that would likely indicate a lot of chemistry with Eichel, which would make me believe that the Sabres are doing well, toeing the line of the playoff bubble. You don't just trade a player like that mid-season or at the deadline. If his character flaws are such an issue, then why would a team give us "useful options" as you put it? Wouldn't those teams be afraid of taking him on especially giving up futures? Richie Incognito had some serious character flaws but the Bills gave him a 2nd chance and I'd say its worked out well. Kane has stayed out of trouble a while now and if he's clicking with Eichel, then i want to see that pairing for years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 I would hope there is no extension at all for Kane . Rather he have outstanding season he be then used as piece of after Christmas trade as team knows better their needs going forward after a few months with new management, coach and system. I don’t trust his character worthy of large investment . If he plays well he could reap some useful options to help build this team better . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Ummm no. What team is going to want him? High cap hit vs lack of production...the only way the Sabres rid themselves of Moulson is a buyout or simply the end of the contract. I guess the league is turning into, "hey, let's pay him for what we think he's going to do" His rookie season was fine, and last year he was pretty darn good despite the high ankle sprain which probably nagged him all year. He was almost a PPG player and we don't know if he was even 100% coming back from the injury. He's going to be under the microscope for years, and the bar is now set very high, we will all accept nothing less than 80 point seasons and perennial playoff births. I sure hope he has it in him. Moulson's deal next year will have 1 year left w/ actual out of pocket of $2MM & cap hit of $5MM. To a team w/ an internal cap, that will look enticing, especially if it comes w/ a 2nd or 3rd round pick. For crying out loud, the Wings got out of Datsyuk's cap hit for a 1st. If THAT can happen, so can a desire by a bad team to have a $2MM PP specialist on a 1 year deal, saving $3MM of actual cash outlay especially when added to a pick that has a reasonable chance of becoming an NHLer be a reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 If Kane is having an outstanding season, that would likely indicate a lot of chemistry with Eichel, which would make me believe that the Sabres are doing well, toeing the line of the playoff bubble. You don't just trade a player like that mid-season or at the deadline. If his character flaws are such an issue, then why would a team give us "useful options" as you put it? Wouldn't those teams be afraid of taking him on especially giving up futures? Richie Incognito had some serious character flaws but the Bills gave him a 2nd chance and I'd say its worked out well. Kane has stayed out of trouble a while now and if he's clicking with Eichel, then i want to see that pairing for years to come. Thank you for spelling this out; some don't seem to get it. Spot on with every point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 The amount of circles the Kane talk has gone in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marions Piazza Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Moulson's deal next year will have 1 year left w/ actual out of pocket of $2MM & cap hit of $5MM. To a team w/ an internal cap, that will look enticing, especially if it comes w/ a 2nd or 3rd round pick. For crying out loud, the Wings got out of Datsyuk's cap hit for a 1st. If THAT can happen, so can a desire by a bad team to have a $2MM PP specialist on a 1 year deal, saving $3MM of actual cash outlay especially when added to a pick that has a reasonable chance of becoming an NHLer be a reality. I get the point you're making, but, a quick look at teams salary caps, every team is above the cap floor, Arizona and Carolina are close, but, still above the floor. I am going to stick with my call that no team will be willing to take on Moulson unless we sweeten the deal like crazy. You make a great point with Datsyuk, but I believe that Arizona was way under the floor, and got a 1st rd pick which they used to get Chychyrun, who will likely be a very good defenseman. http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/cap/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Of course every team is over the cap floor. The season literally started yesterday. They had to be. Are they all over the cap floor for 2018? That is the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marions Piazza Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Of course every team is over the cap floor. The season literally started yesterday. They had to be. Are they all over the cap floor for 2018? That is the question. If no team wanted Moulson to get their floor for this season, why would they suddenly want him to get to the floor in 2018? He'd be another year older, probably will have seen a lot of the press box, and will still carry the same cap hit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 If no team wanted Moulson to get their floor for this season, why would they suddenly want him to get to the floor in 2018? He'd be another year older, probably will have seen a lot of the press box, and will still carry the same cap hit The cap hit isn't important. The important part is the salary. Teams just over the cap floor are concerned with actual dollar salaries. Moulson gets a 1mil signing bonus and then 2 mil in salary for his final year if Cap Friendly is right. So you pay his bonus (1mil) and then a team gets a 2million dollar player (actual salary) that counts 5million against the cap. For financially strapped teams (Arizona, Ottawa) moves like this keep them above the floor while saving them money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marions Piazza Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 The cap hit isn't important. The important part is the salary. Teams just over the cap floor are concerned with actual dollar salaries. Moulson gets a 1mil signing bonus and then 2 mil in salary for his final year if Cap Friendly is right. So you pay his bonus (1mil) and then a team gets a 2million dollar player (actual salary) that counts 5million against the cap. For financially strapped teams (Arizona, Ottawa) moves like this keep them above the floor while saving them money. I get all that, but, teams would have to be desperate to take on an almost worthless Moulson, that's been my point. IMO, they can find other vets, pay them a little more in free agency and get a decent return on production than they would with Moulson. Unless of course, they're willing to eat the salary, take the cap hit to get to the floor AND be willing to have him be a healthy scratch, I guess its possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 I get all that, but, teams would have to be desperate to take on an almost worthless Moulson, that's been my point. IMO, they can find other vets, pay them a little more in free agency and get a decent return on production than they would with Moulson. Unless of course, they're willing to eat the salary, take the cap hit to get to the floor AND be willing to have him be a healthy scratch, I guess its possible They won't have him be a healthy scratch though. They will put him on their third line and just not worry about it. They get to spend 2million while having 5million count against the cap. They can put him on the #1 pp if they want production out of him. Not saying it will happen just that it is very possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Do signing bonuses get paid on the first day of the league year? This year Moulson's base salary is $3 million with a $2 million signing bonus so depending on when the bonus gets paid his actual money paid still equals his cap hit. Next season his base salary is $2 million with a $1 million signing bonus so if bonuses get paid on the first day of the league year or something like that, we may be able to get a bargain bin team to bite after we pay his bonus. Signing bonus gets paid @ July 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Signing bonus gets paid @ July 1 Thank you. That's our best chance to ditch Moulson then. Pay him his $1 million bonus on 7/1/2018 and trade him to a cap floor team where he can count for $5 million on their cap and they'll only have to pay him $2 million. We may need to include a 3rd or 4th round pick, but it would be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 When do we get to the point where Kane's play is the only aspect of Kane we discuss? It's been what, 16 months now, since there has been off-ice trouble? And 2 1/2 seasons with indications of nothing but positive relationships with his teammates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 When do we get to the point where Kane's play is the only aspect of Kane we discuss? For many people, never Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 It seems like the complete silence on talks regarding a Kane extension probably indicates 1 of the following 3 scenarios is in play: 1. JBott wants to get a good, long, up-close look at Kane, both in terms of his game in Housley's system and in terms of behavior, before he decides whether to make a serious attempt to re-sign him (with this evaluation likely including an evaluation of the other guys on the team who have or will need big contracts). or 2. JBott has already decided to move on and is going to see how the season plays out before deciding whether to move him at or around the deadline. or 3. Kane has told the Sabres that he intends to go to FA. Since JBott seems like a smart and prudent guy, and since option #1 seems like the smartest and most prudent option, and since option #3 seems like it would be a foolish and unnecessary move by Kane, I think option #1 is most likely where we are. However, options #2 and #3 can't be dismissed. If Kaner has a good first half, I wouldn't be surprised to hear about contract discussions starting around New Year's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 When do we get to the point where Kane's play is the only aspect of Kane we discuss? It's been what, 16 months now, since there has been off-ice trouble? And 2 1/2 seasons with indications of nothing but positive relationships with his teammates. This. We should be signing him or not signing him based on on-ice factors. (What kind of $ he'll command for that on on-ice performance certainly is a part of that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 This sounds more like a longstanding opinion formed during his first year than an observation on tonight's play. He got an assist on one of the Pommer goals and his forechecking set up the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 If Kane is shooting, it means Eichel isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Kane is a volume shooter. He's not a guy that is going to choose a finesse solution when there isn't a prime scoring opportunity. He's got a straight ahead speed, power game that needs him to shoot often to be successful. Asking him to shoot less, or more selectively, will reduce his effectiveness. And s the Great One said, you miss all of the shots you don't take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 I'm very impressed with Pommer & Eichel together. Maybe Kane would fit on another line better, where, as others pointed out, he would be the go-to guy on the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre fan Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 either way, no matter what we think about Kane, he is by far the most important item on the agenda now. We MUST sign him or trade him...please Dr. JBotto don't hang to him til the end of the season and let him walk for nothing (like we did with both Briere and Drury which still angers me to this day) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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