GASabresIUFAN Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 He's 25g, 20a player and that's just not worth 7 mil x7 Thank you But those at best numbers have already been eclipsed, so. The second part of that isn't an "if". That's what my post was referring to: he is definitely getting term on his next deal, whoever signs him, and not the 1 year deal proposed. He hasn't eclipsed those numbers as a Sabres. He had a 43 pt season last year and a 35 pt season the year before. I think last season is the best we can hope for and my predication at best is for a similar season this year. However it's more likely he slips back to his career mean of around 20 goals and 15-17 assists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 I can't convince myself Kane is worth 6 mil for more then 3-4 years I'm with you here. I just can't find a reason we'd go 6-7 - it's not good business. I'd offer him a 1 year extension now for 2018 at 5.75 and give him a no trade clause. This gives me a chance to see if he works his way into the nucleus - if not my youngsters are closer. It gives him some stability and an opportunity at 28 to earn another contract either with us or another team in 2019. As is generally the case in these situations, if you're saying "I'd give him a 1-year deal" or "I'd give him a 3-year deal" -- you're really saying "I wouldn't give him an offer that he would accept, so I need to figure out what my best options are given that undeniable fact." It's not unreasonable to not want to give Kane, say, $6MM x 6 years. I think many GMs will feel that way. But some will be willing to do so. And Kane isn't going to accept, say, $18MM from the Sabres when he can get $36MM elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 He's 25g, 20a player and that's just not worth 7 mil x7 He's not, not to anybody. This conversation continues to skirt the real issue: what is he worth to the Sabres, and is that considerably less than market value? There seems to be this disconnect where people are arguing quite well that he's not worth a huge deal, yet follow up by assuming that some team is going to give him one. Why? Aren't other GMs aware of the injuries, the lack of playmaking, the off-ice baggage too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) Yes Kane is worth less to Buffalo because almost every player from the top 2 rounds the last 2 years is C/LW which makes them lw because they aren't grabbing a spot from Jack or Ryan Asplund, Davidsson, Nylander, Mittelstadt, not counting Olofsson who's older. Can any of these guys produce 40pts in the nhl, I bet they can maybe starting next year. Edited September 19, 2017 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 He's not, not to anybody. This conversation continues to skirt the real issue: what is he worth to the Sabres, and is that considerably less than market value? There seems to be this disconnect where people are arguing quite well that he's not worth a huge deal, yet follow up by assuming that some team is going to give him one. Why? Aren't other GMs aware of the injuries, the lack of playmaking, the off-ice baggage too? Yes Kane is worth less to Buffalo because almost every player from the top 2 rounds the last 2 years is C/LW which makes them lw because they aren't grabbing a spot from Jack or Ryan Asplund, Davidsson, Nylander, Mittelstadt, not counting Olofsson who's older. Can any of these guys produce 40pts in the nhl, I bet they can maybe starting next year. Bingo. We said it when we tanked. Elite centers make wingers expendable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 I think Kane and the contract situation are going to surprise a lot of people this year. Anyway, I voted for 5.5mil for 6 years in the poll. I'm just worried that amount would have to go up due to post McD/Draisaitl inflation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 I think Kane is more or less worth his current contract. And I'd be hesitant to give him more than five years. I think it is likely someone gives him $6 million over six. Either total could change though, based on this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 He's not, not to anybody. This conversation continues to skirt the real issue: what is he worth to the Sabres, and is that considerably less than market value? There seems to be this disconnect where people are arguing quite well that he's not worth a huge deal, yet follow up by assuming that some team is going to give him one. Why? Aren't other GMs aware of the injuries, the lack of playmaking, the off-ice baggage too? All it takes is one though. 30 GM's can all think the asking price is too high but if 1 GM offers the contract than what the other 30 GM's think doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 All it takes is one though. 30 GM's can all think the asking price is too high but if 1 GM offers the contract than what the other 30 GM's think doesn't matter. Benning is dumb enough to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 I also think this conversation is premature. Like Reinhart, JBOT looks to be taking a wait and see approach to Kane. I'm sure he wants to gauge his attitude both on and off the ice and wants to see his chemistry with Jack and maybe Sam (if at center) before even beginning contract talks. If Kane stays healthy and plays well, then it may be an easy choice for Jbot to try to keep him. It will likely mean that Kane has developed good chemistry with one of the centers and the team is thriving under the new system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 I'm with you here. I just can't find a reason we'd go 6-7 - it's not good business. I'd offer him a 1 year extension now for 2018 at 5.75 and give him a no trade clause. This gives me a chance to see if he works his way into the nucleus - if not my youngsters are closer. It gives him some stability and an opportunity at 28 to earn another contract either with us or another team in 2019. He won't sign it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) Thank you He hasn't eclipsed those numbers as a Sabres. He had a 43 pt season last year and a 35 pt season the year before. I think last season is the best we can hope for and my predication at best is for a similar season this year. However it's more likely he slips back to his career mean of around 20 goals and 15-17 assists. So, you are basing what you think his numbers for next season will be based on career average, but don't consider his best career season thus far for what his high-watermark potential season would be. Ok. --- I'd like to sign Kane because I'm interested in playoff success, and I expect Kane to be a force in the playoffs, given his skill set and the way the game changes. That's worth some $ to me. Edited September 19, 2017 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 So, you are basing what you think his numbers for next season will be based on career average, but don't consider his best career season thus far for what his high-watermark potential season would be. Ok. --- I'd like to sign Kane because I'm interested in playoff success, and I expect Kane to be a force in the playoffs, given his skill set and the way the game changes. That's worth some $ to me. I did consider it, but it was 6 years ago and his injury history is a pretty good indication that he is unlikely to again reach those numbers. It's possible but unlikely, especially when you consider the decline in his assists. Furthermore, he has never played in a playoff game so it's impossible to guage how he'd perform. Maybe he steps up his game. I have a feeling we'll never find out. Like I said before, I hope I'm wrong and the Kane somehow stays healthy and evolves into the dreamed of power forward, but to expect it to happen despite of the weight of history is more fantasy then reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 I did consider it, but it was 6 years ago and his injury history is a pretty good indication that he is unlikely to again reach those numbers. It's possible but unlikely, especially when you consider the decline in his assists. Furthermore, he has never played in a playoff game so it's impossible to guage how he'd perform. Maybe he steps up his game. I have a feeling we'll never find out. Like I said before, I hope I'm wrong and the Kane somehow stays healthy and evolves into the dreamed of power forward, but to expect it to happen despite of the weight of history is more fantasy then reality. Agree with the bolded, sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 If Kane was so helpful to a team, then maybe that team would have made the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 If Kane was so helpful to a team, then maybe that team would have made the playoffs. Slippery slope. "If Ryan O'Reilly truly was the impactful, well-rounded player we thought he was, maybe we'd be in the playoffs last 2 seasons". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 Slippery slope. "If Ryan O'Reilly truly was the impactful, well-rounded player we thought he was, maybe we'd be in the playoffs last 2 seasons". Not really. Kane isn't the mythical guy we want him to be. He's a 45pt winger with some grit and speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 Not really. Kane isn't the mythical guy we want him to be. He's a 45pt winger with some grit and speed. Maybe. But your argument about not making the playoffs in relation to Kane was still a faulty one. And speak for yourself. I'm happy with the player he is. He's not a myth, he's one of the best even strength goal scorers in the league, warts and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 He's a volume scorer who shoots a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 If Kane was so helpful to a team, then maybe that team would have made the playoffs. Hot take right here. Also I agree with Thorny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) He's a volume scorer who shoots a lot. And? Most goal scorers are. I don't understand why people try to frame that like it's somehow a negative. It's not so easy to get 260 shots on net in the National Hockey League. He is fast and strong enough to get into position for all those shots, lots of players can't do that. And the goals come with. Edited September 19, 2017 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 Fine sign Kane to a 7 mil x 7 year deal. You think Gorges contract or Moulsons is bad just u wait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 . Fine sign Kane to a 7 mil x 7 year deal. You think Gorges contract or Moulsons is bad just u wait Who is signing Kane to this mythical deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 . Who is signing Kane to this mythical deal? What will he get at FA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 Fine sign Kane to a 7 mil x 7 year deal. You think Gorges contract or Moulsons is bad just u wait Well, I definitely don't want that. I just don't see the point in belittling the considerable value the guy does bring to the table, when there might be some middle-ground available for perusing in contract negotiations. dudacek has brought forth my favourite point on the matter multiple times: lots of people don't want to pay Kane, but those same people generally think there'll be teams lining up to get him paid. Maybe there'll be a GM that goes overboard. But maybe not. I like what Kane brings to our team enough to dream about and consider a scenario in which he doesn't get that huge offer, and we are able to lock him up at a Radulov like deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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