Should GMTM Keep His Job?

[GASabresIUFAN]

After the team has gone 2-8-2 in their last 12 despite GMTM's pep talk and it's becoming a fait accompli that DD is going to be shown the door for this team's lack of improvement in the standings, the next and only question left is should GMTM keep his job as well?

 

This is highly unlikely but there is growing body of evidence that he may not be the man for the job or at the very least, PSE needs to hire someone to mentor him like Tor did for Shanny.  

 

1) Roster is hopelessly flawed.  This is mostly about the 4 lousy D he acquired, and his failure to properly build D depth, but also the abundance of forwards that aren't really helping the team.

2) Poor professional player evaluation.  Look no further then the D.  

3) Mediocre trades and acquisitions.  Poor trades like the McNabb and Pysyk deals headline the list, but with the except of ROR, all the major trades have some questionable aspects like the taking on Legwand and his cap hit in the Lehner deal.  Add the length and size of the Moulson contract.  Right now the Sabres are saddled with 4 terrible contracts to the tune of 20 mil and all were either given or acquired by GMTM despite only 3 years on the job.  Frankly only FA acquisitions Gionta and Okposo are earning their paycheck.

4) Bombastic personality and attitude.  His pep talk failed to inspire the team, especially when you consider he also recently blamed the players for a bad road trip in the media.  They may not be playing hard for DD anymore, but this may also be a response to playing for GMTM.  This might also be hurting his ability to recruit, especially younger players to Buffalo, such as Vesey, Bayreuther, Caggulia, and now Petersen.  With Eichel and Risto to play with you'd think people would be clamoring to come here.

5) Rebuild plan might also be hopelessly flawed.  He told everyone that he could build a contender in 3 years.  His plan to trade assets for youngish vets to move the team into contention faster has clearly failed, mostly because he done a crappy job of acquiring these youngish vets.  Kane, Bogo, Franson, Kuilkov, ROR, Lehner and Okposo were all part of that plan.  None of the defenders have worked and their is reason to worry that Kane might want out and that Lehner, although much improved, has some significant flaws in his game to keep him from being the anchor for the team long-term.  He has now retreated from his earlier statements.  No surprise, but now if he goes toward the traditional rebuild, he has traded away significant assets that should have been in place.  

6) He hired DD ;) .  

 

Once he pushes DD out the door, the 2nd coach he'll have fired, the focus will be solely on him.  He created this mess and now he has no choice but to own it.  If we don't make significant progress under his new coach, there is no one left to blame is there?

Edited March 17, 2017 by GASabresIUFAN

[MattPie]

Maybe. I don't think the D is as bad as HHDCRGDDB's system makes them look. The roster for the system is hopelessly flawed; I'm not ready to hang GMTM until I see these players on a system that works to their strengths.

 

If there's not a new coach by May 1st, and GMTM has a say in it, I'm ready to fire everyone.

[Randall Flagg]

For me, this summer is his last remaining rope. 

[Robviously]

For me, this summer is his last remaining rope. 

No, but like Flagg says, he will get another chance this summer and the expansion draft should give him an opportunity to fix things.

[WildCard]

Not unless he fires Byslma

[Drunkard]

I'd need more information to vote either way. I've been speculating for a while now that DB was actually Pegula's pick so I would find it difficult to be ok with firing TM if that's the case. From my understanding the system in Rochester is designed to mimic the system in Buffalo as well so if Pegula did make the decision to hire DB then it's tough to pin Rochester's trouble on Murray either. So for now, I'd vote to keep him based on my assumption.

 

Either way, I hope DB gets canned and TM gets to pick the next coach so TM can sink or swim based on the next hire. Unfortunately the only way to be sure the next coach is actually TM's would be for the coach to be a Satanist, Pagan, or Atheist with nothing impressive on his resume except hockey related things.  

[PASabreFan]

Is there a Mormon out there who starred on his high school's rifle team? Tough one for TP.

 

Interesting point about firing Nolan. It's hard to hold that against Murray in any way, except that he did admit that he didn't talk to Nolan and communication had to be better with Dan.

 

I'd have no problem with Murray getting the boot as well, as long as there's a sane succession plan that doesn't involve the Pegulas, Russ and lots of red wine and prayer.

[JJFIVEOH]

After the team has gone 2-8-2 in their last 12 despite GMTM's pep talk and it's becoming a fait accompli that DD is going to be shown the door for this team's lack of improvement in the standings, the next and only question left is should GMTM keep his job as well?

 

This is highly unlikely but there is growing body of evidence that he may not be the man for the job or at the very least, PSE needs to hire someone to mentor him like Tor did for Shanny.  

 

1) Roster is hopelessly flawed.  This is mostly about the 4 lousy D he acquired, and his failure to properly build D depth, but also the abundance of forwards that aren't really helping the team.

2) Poor professional player evaluation.  Look no further then the D.  

3) Mediocre trades and acquisitions.  Poor trades like the McNabb and Pysyk deals headline the list, but with the except of ROR, all the major trades have some questionable aspects like the taking on Legwand and his cap hit in the Lehner deal.  Add the length and size of the Moulson contract.  Right now the Sabres are saddled with 4 terrible contracts to the tune of 20 mil and all were either given or acquired by GMTM despite only 3 years on the job.  Frankly only FA acquisitions Gionta and Okposo are earning their paycheck.

4) Bombastic personality and attitude.  His pep talk failed to inspire the team, especially when you consider he also recently blamed the players for a bad road trip in the media.  They may not be playing hard for DD anymore, but this may also be a response to playing for GMTM.  This might also be hurting his ability to recruit, especially younger players to Buffalo, such as Vesey, Bayreuther, Caggulia, and now Petersen.  With Eichel and Risto to play with you'd think people would be clamoring to come here.

5) Rebuild plan might also be hopelessly flawed.  He told everyone that he could build a contender in 3 years.  His plan to trade assets for youngish vets to move the team into contention faster has clearly failed, mostly because he done a crappy job of acquiring these youngish vets.  Kane, Bogo, Franson, Kuilkov, ROR, Lehner and Okposo were all part of that plan.  None of the defenders have worked and their is reason to worry that Kane might want out and that Lehner, although much improved, has some significant flaws in his game to keep him from being the anchor for the team long-term.  He has now retreated from his earlier statements.  No surprise, but now if he goes toward the traditional rebuild, he has traded away significant assets that should have been in place.  

6) He hired DD ;) .  

 

Once he pushes DD out the door, the 2nd coach he'll have fired, the focus will be solely on him.  He created this mess and now he has no choice but to own it.  If we don't make significant progress under his new coach, there is no one left to blame is there?

 

1. The roster is not hopelessly flawed. This should be about the defensemen he HASN'T brought in yet. Because Franson wasn't signed to be a top 3 solution, and the trade for Bogosian wasn't about Bogosian, it was about Kane. Myers wouldn't be any better on this team than Bogosian. There is nothing wrong with the forwards on this team. After two months into the season of being dead last in scoring, this team has moved to 23rd and on pace to score more than last year. This is considering the poor transition game from the defense and complete lack of possession time. I'm pretty sure the Sabres are near the top 1/3 in scoring since New Years.

 

2. Refer to #1

 

3. Legwand? You really want to criticize Murray because of Legwand? The team had no cap issues, and he played the role he was brought in to play. McNabb? McNabb has been a healthy scratch several times this season, and is usually #7 when their defense is healthy. He would be below Bogosian on the depth chart on this team. This is a non-issue. None of the draft picks that went to the Kings in that trade have even made it to the NHL. So far he won this trade, and that's without seeing what Fasching can do. And you certainly can't grade a trade when the other player coming back has had a messed up back the entire season. We've been down this road before, you don't know anything about Kulikov. If he didn't get injured, this was a fair trade. 

 

4. His inability to inspire a team? Really? He is a GM.......... he is not a coach. If there is any criticism to be thrown at Murray it's the hiring of Goober because it's HIS job to inspire the team. His inability to recruit free agents? That's not his fault. It's Buffalo........... I wouldn't go there either if I had more than one option. Hmmmmm................... Dallas or Buffalo............. Hmmmmmmmm............... New York City or Buffalo.............. Hmmmmm............

 

5. Lehner is SIXTH in the league in save percentage behind what you call one of the worst defenses in the league. How can you seriously expect any better? Miller was routinely well below sixth each season in save percentage yet this place thought he was a god. If you could tell any GM they could have a young, fiery goaltender in the top 1/5 in save percentage for a 1st round pick, 4/5 of the league would take it in a heartbeat. If he has serious flaws, his .921 save percentage says otherwise. 

 

6. THIS is the main problem. You finally got one right.  ;)

 

Replace the coach, work on defensive depth, concentrate on signing Kane, and if you can get another top 3 defenseman without giving up the farm............... do it. Nothing major needs to be done. This team sucks and it's all on Goober's shoulders. Almost half this team moving forward is under 24 years old. 

[WildCard]

Agreed on all accounts JJ

 

Though I will trade Kane ;)

[dudacek]

Minus gross negligence or an unworkably poisonous atmosphere, it would be counterproductive to fire a guy without giving him a chance to finish what he started. IMO, for a GM, that usually should be five drafts.

 

So far, Murray seems to acquired an excellent crop of young forwards, done alright in goal, struggled rebuilding the defence and failed on his first coach. He hasn't backed us into any corners with his cap management (yet) and he has a lot of bodies in the pipeline.

 

I still need time to see how those kids develop and how he balances Kane, Eichel and Reinhart's new deals with the bad contracts of Moulson, Bogosian and Ennis. And I will be watching closely to see how he improves the defence and the coaching situations in the offseason.

 

So, to answer the question: yes, for now, but what happens next year will be very telling. If we look like we have the past few weeks 12 months from now, he might not get that fifth draft.

[WildCard]

The prospects he's drafted have been pretty great so far, no? Aren't Pu and Estephan killing it? And they were like 6th round draft picks

[North Buffalo]

1 more year if and only if DD is fired and based on acquisitions either drafted, signed or traded for this summer plus losing some dead weight, Moulson, Kuli to start Gorges and or Franson.

[Norcal]

Yes

[Jacque Richard]

Get rid of him too. We're worse off now than I expected

[Eleven]

1. The roster is not hopelessly flawed. This should be about the defensemen he HASN'T brought in yet. Because Franson wasn't signed to be a top 3 solution, and the trade for Bogosian wasn't about Bogosian, it was about Kane. Myers wouldn't be any better on this team than Bogosian. There is nothing wrong with the forwards on this team. After two months into the season of being dead last in scoring, this team has moved to 23rd and on pace to score more than last year. This is considering the poor transition game from the defense and complete lack of possession time. I'm pretty sure the Sabres are near the top 1/3 in scoring since New Years.

 

2. Refer to #1

 

3. Legwand? You really want to criticize Murray because of Legwand? The team had no cap issues, and he played the role he was brought in to play. McNabb? McNabb has been a healthy scratch several times this season, and is usually #7 when their defense is healthy. He would be below Bogosian on the depth chart on this team. This is a non-issue. None of the draft picks that went to the Kings in that trade have even made it to the NHL. So far he won this trade, and that's without seeing what Fasching can do. And you certainly can't grade a trade when the other player coming back has had a messed up back the entire season. We've been down this road before, you don't know anything about Kulikov. If he didn't get injured, this was a fair trade. 

 

4. His inability to inspire a team? Really? He is a GM.......... he is not a coach. If there is any criticism to be thrown at Murray it's the hiring of Goober because it's HIS job to inspire the team. His inability to recruit free agents? That's not his fault. It's Buffalo........... I wouldn't go there either if I had more than one option. Hmmmmm................... Dallas or Buffalo............. Hmmmmmmmm............... New York City or Buffalo.............. Hmmmmm............

 

5. Lehner is SIXTH in the league in save percentage behind what you call one of the worst defenses in the league. How can you seriously expect any better? Miller was routinely well below sixth each season in save percentage yet this place thought he was a god. If you could tell any GM they could have a young, fiery goaltender in the top 1/5 in save percentage for a 1st round pick, 4/5 of the league would take it in a heartbeat. If he has serious flaws, his .921 save percentage says otherwise. 

 

6. THIS is the main problem. You finally got one right.  ;)

 

Replace the coach, work on defensive depth, concentrate on signing Kane, and if you can get another top 3 defenseman without giving up the farm............... do it. Nothing major needs to be done. This team sucks and it's all on Goober's shoulders. Almost half this team moving forward is under 24 years old. 

 

Well stated.

[Robviously]

The prospects he's drafted have been pretty great so far, no? Aren't Pu and Estephan killing it? And they were like 6th round draft picks

Pu was 3rd round.  Estephan was 6th the year before.  Both guys having great seasons but a little below what Nick Baptiste did the year after he was drafted (for comparison).  

 

Our 2015 and 2016 drafts seem promising.  Our 2014 draft is basically a mess.

[Guest]

Minus gross negligence or an unworkably poisonous atmosphere, it would be counterproductive to fire a guy without giving him a chance to finish what he started. IMO, for a GM, that usually should be five drafts.

 

 

Shouldn't that also apply to the coach?  Shouldn't DD have been given a complete roster to coach before we show him the door?

 

7) I forgot to add poor cap management.  There is no way with a team this bad we should be bumping up against the cap.  

Edited March 17, 2017 by yse325

[Jacque Richard]

By the time they get any good eichel will have played out his contract

[dudacek]

Shouldn't that also apply to the coach?  Shouldn't DD have been given a complete roster to coach before we show him the door?

 

No. A coach is judged by how well his players perform relative to their talent and experience, whether the players are motivated and engaged, whether his system works, and how he deals with whatever challenges come his way.

 

In my view Dan has failed on all counts.

 

Separate but related, a coach never outlasts the GM.

[Jacque Richard]

Fires disco and puts Terry Murray behind the bench.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Jacque Richard

[WildCard]

Fires disco and puts Terry Murray behind the bench.

Please no. 

[Guest]

No. A coach is judged by how well his players perform relative to their talent and experience, whether the players are motivated and engaged, whether his system works, and how he deals with whatever challenges come his way.

 

In my view Dan has failed on all counts.

 

Separate but related, a coach never outlasts the GM.

That's true.  A coach rarely outlasts the GM, but it does happen occasionally.  (Dave Tippett outlasted GM Don Maloney)  The GM usually fires the coach to save his own behind.

 

JJ, the acquisition of Legwand wasn't the problem.  Legwand did just fine for us in his limited role.  It was that his acquisition and the cap hit that went with was a symptom of a greater problem and that problem was the over payment for Lehner.  Ottawa received a better draft pick then the market for Lehner plus we gave them $3 mill in cap relief which they desperately wanted.  We essentially received no compensation for taking Legwand, a player they didn't want any longer and certainly not a $3 mill, off their hands.  Get it now?

Edited March 17, 2017 by yse325

[PotentPowerPlay22]

After the team has gone 2-8-2 in their last 12 despite GMTM's pep talk and it's becoming a fait accompli that DD is going to be shown the door for this team's lack of improvement in the standings, the next and only question left is should GMTM keep his job as well?

 

This is highly unlikely but there is growing body of evidence that he may not be the man for the job or at the very least, PSE needs to hire someone to mentor him like Tor did for Shanny.  

 

1) Roster is hopelessly flawed.  This is mostly about the 4 lousy D he acquired, and his failure to properly build D depth, but also the abundance of forwards that aren't really helping the team.

2) Poor professional player evaluation.  Look no further then the D.  

3) Mediocre trades and acquisitions.  Poor trades like the McNabb and Pysyk deals headline the list, but with the except of ROR, all the major trades have some questionable aspects like the taking on Legwand and his cap hit in the Lehner deal.  Add the length and size of the Moulson contract.  Right now the Sabres are saddled with 4 terrible contracts to the tune of 20 mil and all were either given or acquired by GMTM despite only 3 years on the job.  Frankly only FA acquisitions Gionta and Okposo are earning their paycheck.

4) Bombastic personality and attitude.  His pep talk failed to inspire the team, especially when you consider he also recently blamed the players for a bad road trip in the media.  They may not be playing hard for DD anymore, but this may also be a response to playing for GMTM.  This might also be hurting his ability to recruit, especially younger players to Buffalo, such as Vesey, Bayreuther, Caggulia, and now Petersen.  With Eichel and Risto to play with you'd think people would be clamoring to come here.

5) Rebuild plan might also be hopelessly flawed.  He told everyone that he could build a contender in 3 years.  His plan to trade assets for youngish vets to move the team into contention faster has clearly failed, mostly because he done a crappy job of acquiring these youngish vets.  Kane, Bogo, Franson, Kuilkov, ROR, Lehner and Okposo were all part of that plan.  None of the defenders have worked and their is reason to worry that Kane might want out and that Lehner, although much improved, has some significant flaws in his game to keep him from being the anchor for the team long-term.  He has now retreated from his earlier statements.  No surprise, but now if he goes toward the traditional rebuild, he has traded away significant assets that should have been in place.  

6) He hired DD ;) .  

 

Once he pushes DD out the door, the 2nd coach he'll have fired, the focus will be solely on him.  He created this mess and now he has no choice but to own it.  If we don't make significant progress under his new coach, there is no one left to blame is there?

There are several good points here. 

 

I get the impression GMTM was so anxious to clear out all the Darcy Regier players and draft picks that he made several significant mistakes doing so. He hated Regier so much he has never even spoken his name aloud since he took over as GM.

 

As a whole (to this point), Tim Murray has largely failed. I don't think he will be fired soon, but Bylsma might be used as his scapegoat and get canned.

[tom webster]

After the team has gone 2-8-2 in their last 12 despite GMTM's pep talk and it's becoming a fait accompli that DD is going to be shown the door for this team's lack of improvement in the standings, the next and only question left is should GMTM keep his job as well?

 

This is highly unlikely but there is growing body of evidence that he may not be the man for the job or at the very least, PSE needs to hire someone to mentor him like Tor did for Shanny.  

 

1) Roster is hopelessly flawed.  This is mostly about the 4 lousy D he acquired, and his failure to properly build D depth, but also the abundance of forwards that aren't really helping the team.

2) Poor professional player evaluation.  Look no further then the D.  

3) Mediocre trades and acquisitions.  Poor trades like the McNabb and Pysyk deals headline the list, but with the except of ROR, all the major trades have some questionable aspects like the taking on Legwand and his cap hit in the Lehner deal.  Add the length and size of the Moulson contract.  Right now the Sabres are saddled with 4 terrible contracts to the tune of 20 mil and all were either given or acquired by GMTM despite only 3 years on the job.  Frankly only FA acquisitions Gionta and Okposo are earning their paycheck.

4) Bombastic personality and attitude.  His pep talk failed to inspire the team, especially when you consider he also recently blamed the players for a bad road trip in the media.  They may not be playing hard for DD anymore, but this may also be a response to playing for GMTM.  This might also be hurting his ability to recruit, especially younger players to Buffalo, such as Vesey, Bayreuther, Caggulia, and now Petersen.  With Eichel and Risto to play with you'd think people would be clamoring to come here.

5) Rebuild plan might also be hopelessly flawed.  He told everyone that he could build a contender in 3 years.  His plan to trade assets for youngish vets to move the team into contention faster has clearly failed, mostly because he done a crappy job of acquiring these youngish vets.  Kane, Bogo, Franson, Kuilkov, ROR, Lehner and Okposo were all part of that plan.  None of the defenders have worked and their is reason to worry that Kane might want out and that Lehner, although much improved, has some significant flaws in his game to keep him from being the anchor for the team long-term.  He has now retreated from his earlier statements.  No surprise, but now if he goes toward the traditional rebuild, he has traded away significant assets that should have been in place.  

6) He hired DD ;) .  

 

Once he pushes DD out the door, the 2nd coach he'll have fired, the focus will be solely on him.  He created this mess and now he has no choice but to own it.  If we don't make significant progress under his new coach, there is no one left to blame is there?

1) He never said 3 years. In fact has never put a time limit on.

2) McNabb has been a healthy scratch half the season, no matter how many times you bring up his name all he still can't skate.

3) He's has been through 3 drafts, the first being a historically weak draft. 95% of NHL draft choices take at least two years to make an appearance.

4) None of the defenseman brought in with the exception of Kulikov were part of the long term plan.

5) If the team didn't quit on their coach after break they would be challenging for a playoff spot in spite of missing their two top forwards for the first two months of the season.

6) Finally, hopelessly flawed is just plain ridiculous. They are two defenseman away from being a solid playoff team.

Edited March 17, 2017 by tom webster

[Radar]

I'd need more information to vote either way. I've been speculating for a while now that DB was actually Pegula's pick so I would find it difficult to be ok with firing TM if that's the case. From my understanding the system in Rochester is designed to mimic the system in Buffalo as well so if Pegula did make the decision to hire DB then it's tough to pin Rochester's trouble on Murray either. So for now, I'd vote to keep him based on my assumption.

 

Either way, I hope DB gets canned and TM gets to pick the next coach so TM can sink or swim based on the next hire. Unfortunately the only way to be sure the next coach is actually TM's would be for the coach to be a Satanist, Pagan, or Atheist with nothing impressive on his resume except hockey related things.

 

You know as Christian I'm beginning to be offended by your anti faith comments. I'm not pushing my beliefs on you. I could care less that you're an atheist,pagan or whatever but don't push that agenda then complain about Christians doing it. Seems like belittling Christians is okay but you seem to go off on anyone who mentions the word faith

There are other forums you can use to express you pro or anti religious views.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Radar