Should GMTM Keep His Job?

[Guest]

I agree that Bogo, Kulikov and Gorges stink this year and Franson stank last year. Kulikov's extenuating circumstance has been beaten to death and the latter two we got more or less what we expected and paid for.

Do you really think we got our money's worth from Gorges and Franson?  We invested over $7 mill in those two players.

 

Would we  agree that by keeping Risto and McCabe over Zadorov, Pysyk and McNabb that GMTM identified and picked the right young defencemen?

Would we also agree that he signed each of them to good contracts?

Agree on the contracts, but your other statement is incorrect.  GMTM hass kept the best 2 of the five, but it doesn't follow that he didn't have to keep only two.  The trades of McNabb and Pysyk were unnecessary.  Only Zadorov was traded as a piece of a great deal.  The better question is how would we be if we had only traded Zadorov.  I'd argue we'd have a better team and much more cap space.

 

I think we can agree that Ryan O'Reilly and Evander Kane are very good hockey players?

Can we also agree that Murray did a pretty good job identifying them and going out and getting them? And that he did so without giving up any core assets?

We can agree that ROR and Kane are good hockey players and he was certainly right to go get ROR and we don't miss the assets given up to get him.  I'm not sold on the Kane/Bogo deal, but think that if Kane stays and continues with the level of play and attitude we have seen this year, the deal could work out in the end.

 

I think we can agree we are much better off with Reinhart, Eichel and Nylander than Fleury, Hanifin and Sergachev?

And that our group of young forwards is among the very best in hockey?

I disagree with the formation of your premise.   This isn't an either or scenario.  No GM was passing on Eichel and Reinhart for a lower rated D.  However Nylander vs Sergachev is a very debatable decision.  The ratings for both were nearly identical and based on need Sergachev was and is the better choice.  Sam and Jack are awesome talents, Jack is now an elite offensive player and improving 2 way player, but other teams have a much deeper roster of top end forward talent such as Edm and Tor. 

 

I agree that Murray is mostly responsible for the state of the Sabres and that the coach and GM should be on the same page. This summer will prove if they are.

I agree that Murray has made mistakes.

 

I agree there are roster and depth issues but I disagree with the way you ignore where this organization was; the significant increase in the overall talent level here and in the pipeline in a short period of time is difficult to for me to ignore, as is the fact the Sabres were among the worst teams of my lifetime just two years ago.

The holes appear fixable. Bylsma appears to be the biggest and the most easily correctable.

I agree the holes in the roster are fixable, but while he has lifted us from the bottom his mistakes this season in roster depth and formation have been a huge speed dump in our growth THIS season and while he has done a good job adding forwards, his has done an equally poor job of acquiring D.

 

You say Murray has made a mess of the Sabres. I say he hasn't finished fixing them yet.

This is certainly a fair statement for the long-term, but I worry that he doesn't have the management skills to finish what he started.

[Radar]

How fans know so much more than owners and GM' s has always amazed me. Maybe it's they don't have to actually make decisions only critique them?

Edited March 22, 2017 by Radar

[PASabreFan]

Boy, so much depends on the owner.  Take a Bob Kraft for instance - who has put in place an effective team to run the Patriots, and lets his people do their jobs and has built a powerhouse championship football dynasty -  well, there's not much of a demand to SPEAK to Bob Kraft.  He's mostly hands off anyway.  But when/if Kraft appears in front of the media, it's to adulation and love.  He has little if any reason to avoid contact with the media. 

 

Pegula is a different animal, and vastly less effective in his style and technique. He and his wife clearly involve themselves in football and hockey operations and day to day decision making - Kim 'N Terry are like the Senior GMs of the Buffalo teams - even worse, as we have seen demonstrated so clearly with the Bills, they undercut and undermine the authority of their operations team, like the General Manager, even leaving the GM out of the conversation entirely regarding crucial operations decisions.

 

So there's obviously more of a drumbeat to want to interview them or hear them discuss team operations since they're like the de facto  Senior General Managers of the Bills and Sabres, and they're entwined in decision making far out of their area of competence/expertise.  They've also clearly established something of a 'siege mentality' because the teams have wilted and declined under their ownership and management, and they know the fans and media have become/are becoming hostile towards them. 

 

I don't even know how to answer the original question - I guess the question should get narrowed down - how often do meddling/interfering owners grant interviews/pressers?  

I have wood.

[woods-racer]

I'm not on a crusade to fire GMTM as others are on DD. I'm trying to show there is more to issues here then just DD and his system.

 

I think you and I agree that the 4 starting D GMTM acquired stink and take up to much cap, which has correctly raised questions of GMTM's ability to evaluate pro players and cap management. I think everyone agrees that we don't have nearly enough Depth on the blueline.

 

GMTM acquired 3 of the D knowing DD's system. Isn't it part of the GM's job to acquire players that can execute the coach's system? Isn't it the GM's job to acquire adequate depth?

 

I have never said the DD isn't partly responsible for the team's failure. It is part of his job to alter what he does to get the most out of the players he has. I don't like his system either and but I do think he has tried to be somewhat flexible. When Eichel was injured he played much more trap. Once Jack returned, he seems to have open things up more.

 

If i had to allocate blame, I'd says 55% belongs to Murray (for roster and depth issues) 15% to the players (effort issues) and 30% to DD and his staff (for system and flexability issues).

 

I completely disagree with this. 

 

Dan came out and said he re-wrote his system because it failed in Pittsburgh. He had a good group of defense-men that could not do what Dan wanted them to do in Pitt, so why did Dan do it again with a less talented group in Buffalo? Look at possession stats, they tell the tail of Dan's success.

 

 

I have wood.

 hey now....

[Guest]

I completely disagree with this. 

 

Dan came out and said he re-wrote his system because it failed in Pittsburgh. He had a good group of defense-men that could not do what Dan wanted them to do in Pitt, so why did Dan do it again with a less talented group in Buffalo? Look at possession stats, they tell the tail of Dan's success.

 

Don't you think the GMTM knew that DD reworked his system when he hired him?  DD's system had to be a huge topic of conversation during the interview and hiring process.  I'm sure they have discussed the roster and how each player fit into the revised system.  It's the GM's job after that meeting to find the right players for that system, especially when you commit to a coach for 5 years.  We also know that GMTM was aware of the system because he hired Lambert to install the same system in Roch.  

 

 

[Sabre fan]

The Pegula's hired Blusma, not GMTM...Pegula's were pissed (rightly so) when Babs reneged on his handshake and word and signed instead with the Leafs. If we had got babs we'd be a whole lot better trust me...that was not GMTM's fault. As for the lineup it sure is better then it was before he came. and are young talent has been improved immensely already.

[dudacek]

I don't think we can hand wave Bylsma as the fault of "those meddling Pegulas"

 

When Babcock went south (or, more accurately, north) the brain trust immediately targeted Bylsma. They discovered the interest was mutual, they liked what he had to say and they offered him a ridiculous contract.

 

Whether Terry led that charge, or Tim, both were clearly involved and there has been no sign that Tim was not fully on board.

[Drunkard]

I completely disagree with this. 

 

Dan came out and said he re-wrote his system because it failed in Pittsburgh. He had a good group of defense-men that could not do what Dan wanted them to do in Pitt, so why did Dan do it again with a less talented group in Buffalo? Look at possession stats, they tell the tail of Dan's success.

 

 

 hey now....

 

Did DB really re-write his system though? The complaints we have about him (too many stretch passes, not enough puck support, too much dump/chip and chase, weak forecheck) are the same complaints that Pittsburgh fans had about him when he was fired. I think he sold Pegula a made up narrative about updating his system and studying the game in his year off and Pegula bought it hook line and sinker because of his Pittsburgh fetish and the shiny Stanley Cup ring DB likely wore to the interview. Wouldn't surprise me if Russ Brandon told him to bring a bottle of red wine with him either the same way he did to Rex, but that's just speculation on my part.

[WildCard]

They wanted to a big name with credibility, same as Rex Ryan, and there's only 1 common factor there

 

#OneBuffalo

Edited March 23, 2017 by WildCard

[MattPie]

Did DB really re-write his system though? The complaints we have about him (too many stretch passes, not enough puck support, too much dump/chip and chase, weak forecheck) are the same complaints that Pittsburgh fans had about him when he was fired. I think he sold Pegula a made up narrative about updating his system and studying the game in his year off and Pegula bought it hook line and sinker because of his Pittsburgh fetish and the shiny Stanley Cup ring DB likely wore to the interview. Wouldn't surprise me if Russ Brandon told him to bring a bottle of red wine with him either the same way he did to Rex, but that's just speculation on my part.

 

He either did change the system in his mind but it looks the same to us ("but the center now looks to receive that 95 ft pass on the *right* side of the ice!"), or when the going got tough, he went back to his safe-place. Either way, I hate his system and I grow ever more weary of watching it.

[Drunkard]

He either did change the system in his mind but it looks the same to us ("but the center now looks to receive that 95 ft pass on the *right* side of the ice!"), or when the going got tough, he went back to his safe-place. Either way, I hate his system and I grow ever more weary of watching it.

 

Seems logical. I'm sick of DB. I've watched maybe 10 or so games this season and half of those I didn't even watch in their entirety. If he's back again next season I'll watch fewer games than TM utters word announcing our next high draft pick.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Drunkard

[qwksndmonster]

Seems logical. I'm sick of DB. I've watched maybe 10 or so games this season and half of those I didn't even watch in their entirety. If he's back again next season I'll watch fewer games than TM utters word announcing our next high draft pick.

I like the cut of your anger's gib.

[TrueBlueGED]

I don't think we can hand wave Bylsma as the fault of "those meddling Pegulas"

 

When Babcock went south (or, more accurately, north) the brain trust immediately targeted Bylsma. They discovered the interest was mutual, they liked what he had to say and they offered him a ridiculous contract.

 

Whether Terry led that charge, or Tim, both were clearly involved and there has been no sign that Tim was not fully on board.

Didn't Murray also say he had reached out to Bylsma and they had contact before the Babcock decision even happened?

[MattPie]

Didn't Murray also say he had reached out to Bylsma and they had contact before the Babcock decision even happened?

 

Realistically, I'm sure they had contact with most of the available coaches at the time. Who knows what the depth of that contact was.

[GASabresIUFAN]

After the team has gone 2-8-2 in their last 12 despite GMTM's pep talk and it's becoming a fait accompli that DD is going to be shown the door for this team's lack of improvement in the standings, the next and only question left is should GMTM keep his job as well?

 

This is highly unlikely but there is growing body of evidence that he may not be the man for the job or at the very least, PSE needs to hire someone to mentor him like Tor did for Shanny.  

 

1) Roster is hopelessly flawed.  This is mostly about the 4 lousy D he acquired, and his failure to properly build D depth, but also the abundance of forwards that aren't really helping the team.

2) Poor professional player evaluation.  Look no further then the D.  

3) Mediocre trades and acquisitions.  Poor trades like the McNabb and Pysyk deals headline the list, but with the except of ROR, all the major trades have some questionable aspects like the taking on Legwand and his cap hit in the Lehner deal.  Add the length and size of the Moulson contract.  Right now the Sabres are saddled with 4 terrible contracts to the tune of 20 mil and all were either given or acquired by GMTM despite only 3 years on the job.  Frankly only FA acquisitions Gionta and Okposo are earning their paycheck.

4) Bombastic personality and attitude.  His pep talk failed to inspire the team, especially when you consider he also recently blamed the players for a bad road trip in the media.  They may not be playing hard for DD anymore, but this may also be a response to playing for GMTM.  This might also be hurting his ability to recruit, especially younger players to Buffalo, such as Vesey, Bayreuther, Caggulia, and now Petersen.  With Eichel and Risto to play with you'd think people would be clamoring to come here.

5) Rebuild plan might also be hopelessly flawed.  He told everyone that he could build a contender in 3 years.  His plan to trade assets for youngish vets to move the team into contention faster has clearly failed, mostly because he done a crappy job of acquiring these youngish vets.  Kane, Bogo, Franson, Kuilkov, ROR, Lehner and Okposo were all part of that plan.  None of the defenders have worked and their is reason to worry that Kane might want out and that Lehner, although much improved, has some significant flaws in his game to keep him from being the anchor for the team long-term.  He has now retreated from his earlier statements.  No surprise, but now if he goes toward the traditional rebuild, he has traded away significant assets that should have been in place.  

6) He hired DD ;) .  

 

Once he pushes DD out the door, the 2nd coach he'll have fired, the focus will be solely on him.  He created this mess and now he has no choice but to own it.  If we don't make significant progress under his new coach, there is no one left to blame is there?

And the winner is....... Thanks TM. See ya!