Players not listening to Dan?

[darksabre]

I hate to beat this horse a little bit more, but I found this comment by Jerry Sullivan and I thought it quite telling.  http://buffalonews.com/2017/02/15/sullys-mailbag-dont-sabres-show-thursdays/

 

Sullivan writes, responding to a tweet about replacing DD.

 

 

I think this encapsulates the arguments on this board, but it eve Sully understands it's hard to play some great up tempo system when our defense sucks! 

 

As I've said before, this mess is GMTM's fault.

This just isn't true though. This team could be playing an up-tempo style despite its defense, so long as the forwards provide more puck support. But as has been shown ad nasueam, our system is such that the forwards are being tasked with looking for long stretch passes from the D rather than providing puck support, and since our defense isn't good at this, the forwards spend a lot of time either going too slowly through the neutral zone or chasing down missed passes. Stretch passes, when they work, can facilitate an up-tempo style, but they're not the only means of achieving it. Good puck support that facilitates more speed through the neutral zone is completely doable with this roster, should our breakout scheme be designed to facilitate it. But it's not. And that's on Dan. 

[That Aud Smell]

In addition to what d4rk says, Sullivan reveals his basic ignorance when he slags the D for giving up all those shots. As if that too is not part and parcel of Hot Daniel's approach.

 

I've gone back to reading Sullivan from time to time. He writes well. And he understands a lot about the basic moving parts of how sports teams are organized, operated, and deployed. But I don't think he understands much about the finer points of hockey. I really don't.

[SwampD]

This just isn't true though. This team could be playing an up-tempo style despite its defense, so long as the forwards provide more puck support. But as has been shown ad nasueam, our system is such that the forwards are being tasked with looking for long stretch passes from the D rather than providing puck support, and since our defense isn't good at this, the forwards spend a lot of time either going too slowly through the neutral zone or chasing down missed passes. Stretch passes, when they work, can facilitate an up-tempo style, but they're not the only means of achieving it. Good puck support that facilitates more speed through the neutral zone is completely doable with this roster, should our breakout scheme be designed to facilitate it. But it's not. And that's on Dan. 

Everyone keeps stating this as fact and I still have my doubts. Last year I remember being surprised at how much I enjoyed watching us get the puck out of our own zone (with short passes of the half wall to a waiting forward and leaving as a unit), more than at any time under Ruff I think. Doing exactly what you say they should be doing.

 

Then they get called out after a game for not playing the way the coaches are telling them to play, and we get the style we want to see for the next two games. Seems to me that is on the players, but I guess everyone sees what they want to see.

 

So, were they being asked to make those stretch passes or was that their only option because the forwards were playing their own game and leaving the zone early.

[LTS]

Look, there's plenty of reasons to go around and some blame can fall on many shoulders.

 

The defense should be better, however the defense development timeline was conceded to the forward depth issue.  The defense will be improved and that part of the game will go away.  However, the Sabres needed far more forwards than they did defense and in order to get a few of those forwards Murray had to weigh giving up a pick or prospect that could be a D in exchange for grabbing a forward who would really help the team succeed.

 

One can argue the 1st rounder for Lehner, but if Lehner has a better D do we believe he'll benefit and then he'll be the #1 goalie and that first round pick will be long forgotten.

 

I don't this this is a mess, it's a situation where everything cannot be improved at once.

 

The coach on the other hand needs to have players who can execute.  Outside of Gorges this year I'm not sure any of the D on the Sabres are egregious at their position. Blaming the D for giving up shots is ignorant regardless of the coach. The defensive corps is comprised of 2/5 of the players on the ice.  Many shots originate from players not covered by a defenseman.  If the forwards are a defensive zone mess (they are) then they, in theory, could be to blame for 3/5 of the shots taken.  If Bylsma is coaching his forwards to collapse (he is) because he believes his D need that additional help then he creates that opportunity for those shots to get through.  At that point, if you are going to collapse you better be good at shot blocking.  Quickly scanning... the Sabres are about 17th in blocked shots.  So, they can't block shots and they aren't doing anything to stop the shots from coming in from the point and most games when I see shots attempted the other team has a LOT more than the Sabres. None of it is surprising given that you can't shoot if you don't have the puck. I'd actually love to see a chart of where shots are attempted against the Sabres.

 

All of that to say... Dan is trying too hard to compensate for the perceived weakness of this team and its not working real well.

[RonHextallsShoulderPads]

i heard those two shots off the post were in protest of DD's system. 

[Scottysabres]

i heard those two shots off the post were in protest of DD's system.

 

#notmygoalpost

 

:D

[SwampD]

i heard those two shots off the post were in protest of DD's system. 

Drink!!

[That Aud Smell]

i heard those two shots off the post were in protest of DD's system. 

 

fair, and funny. #puckluck

[Doohickie]

Look, there's plenty of reasons to go around and some blame can fall on many shoulders.

 

The defense should be better, however the defense development timeline was conceded to the forward depth issue.  The defense will be improved and that part of the game will go away.  However, the Sabres needed far more forwards than they did defense and in order to get a few of those forwards Murray had to weigh giving up a pick or prospect that could be a D in exchange for grabbing a forward who would really help the team succeed.

 

One can argue the 1st rounder for Lehner, but if Lehner has a better D do we believe he'll benefit and then he'll be the #1 goalie and that first round pick will be long forgotten.

 

I don't this this is a mess, it's a situation where everything cannot be improved at once.

 

The coach on the other hand needs to have players who can execute.  Outside of Gorges this year I'm not sure any of the D on the Sabres are egregious at their position. Blaming the D for giving up shots is ignorant regardless of the coach. The defensive corps is comprised of 2/5 of the players on the ice.  Many shots originate from players not covered by a defenseman.  If the forwards are a defensive zone mess (they are) then they, in theory, could be to blame for 3/5 of the shots taken.  If Bylsma is coaching his forwards to collapse (he is) because he believes his D need that additional help then he creates that opportunity for those shots to get through.  At that point, if you are going to collapse you better be good at shot blocking.  Quickly scanning... the Sabres are about 17th in blocked shots.  So, they can't block shots and they aren't doing anything to stop the shots from coming in from the point and most games when I see shots attempted the other team has a LOT more than the Sabres. None of it is surprising given that you can't shoot if you don't have the puck. I'd actually love to see a chart of where shots are attempted against the Sabres.

 

All of that to say... Dan is trying too hard to compensate for the perceived weakness of this team and its not working real well.

 

I noticed in the Avalanche game that the forwards were backchecking pretty vigorously, with Jack leading the way.  And we only allowed 23 SOG.  Hmmmm.....

[WildCard]

@ByMHarrington  3h3 hours ago

More

Gomez just now on Eichel: "He's hearing some heat around Buffalo lately." If U R calling the goalie out, call him out. Not from fans/media.

 

 

 

What does this mean?

[dudacek]

I hate to beat this horse a little bit more, but I found this comment by Jerry Sullivan and I thought it quite telling.  http://buffalonews.com/2017/02/15/sullys-mailbag-dont-sabres-show-thursdays/

 

As I've said before, this mess is GMTM's fault.

I think the mess is what GMTM inherited.

[woods-racer]

 

@ByMHarrington  3h3 hours ago

More

Gomez just now on Eichel: "He's hearing some heat around Buffalo lately." If U R calling the goalie out, call him out. Not from fans/media.

 

 

 

What does this mean?

 

 

 

Gomez was drunk when he posted it?

[GASabresIUFAN]

I think the mess is what GMTM inherited.

GmTM acquired Gorges, Franson, Kulikov, Bogosian, Falk and Fedun. He inherited Risto and McCabe. Last I looked, those 2 aren't the problem.

[Randall Flagg]

Gomez was taking shots at Buffalo before the game yesterday, according to a family member who had the pregame on, I didn't hear it though.

Hey Scott, remember when fans made a website called "didgomezscore.com" and it was up with a "No." for like 500 days? Nobody cares what you think buddy. And how in the hell do you have any inside info regarding this locker room? Go away.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I think the players listened last night.

[dudacek]

GmTM acquired Gorges, Franson, Kulikov, Bogosian, Falk and Fedun. He inherited Risto and McCabe. Last I looked, those 2 aren't the problem.

if I recall correctly the defence he inherited was

 

Ehrhoff/Pysyk

Myers/Tallinder

Weber/McBain

 

If you want to pretend that was vastly better than

 

McCabe/Risto

Kulikov/Bogosian

Gorges/Franson

 

...go ahead.

 

He kept the two best prospects on the blueline and traded the next three best away in an attempt to upgrade a top six populated by the likes of Corky Hogtown, Steve Ott and Ville Leino.

 

The idea that the talent level of this team is anywhere near as bad as it was when Murray arrived is laughable.

Edited February 17, 2017 by dudacek

[Derrico]

Drink!!

How come nobody came to check on me?!?!?!?!??!  I've been passed out for two days and only got through the first two pages!

[Doohickie]

I think the mess is what GMTM inherited.

 

This is starting to sound like a politics thread.

[Mustache of God]

This is starting to sound like a politics thread.

 

The Buffalo Sabres are running like a god damned fine tuned hockey franchile-mobile. Tim Murray, fantastic guy, he's doing a fabulous job, a fab-u-lous job. I can honestly say he's the greatest GM ever.

[MattPie]

Gomez was taking shots at Buffalo before the game yesterday, according to a family member who had the pregame on, I didn't hear it though.

 

Hey Scott, remember when fans made a website called "didgomezscore.com" and it was up with a "No." for like 500 days? Nobody cares what you think buddy. And how in the hell do you have any inside info regarding this locker room? Go away.

 

Gomez -> Gionta the Younger (played together in NJ, right?) -> Gionta the Elder is plausible, but it could just be him following Twitter and guessing too.

[That Aud Smell]

I read a few of Scott Gomez's takes elsewhere from last night - they were legitimately awful. And I don't mean that because he was chirping the Sabres -- like, they were not even coherent thoughts.

[SwampD]

How come nobody came to check on me?!?!?!?!??! I've been passed out for two days and only got through the first two pages!

I think you should go look in the mirror. We did check on you. You were still breathing so we decided to draw penises all over your face with Sharpie.

[GASabresIUFAN]

if I recall correctly the defence he inherited was

 

Ehrhoff/Pysyk

Myers/Tallinder

Weber/McBain

 

If you want to pretend that was vastly better than

 

McCabe/Risto

Kulikov/Bogosian

Gorges/Franson

 

...go ahead.

 

He kept the two best prospects on the blueline and traded the next three best away in an attempt to upgrade a top six populated by the likes of Corky Hogtown, Steve Ott and Ville Leino.

 

The idea that the talent level of this team is anywhere near as bad as it was when Murray arrived is laughable.

 

I never said that.  I never said the D group inherited didn't stink or that he hasn't upgraded the talent on the roster over all.   

 

I said he created the mess on D. His best acquisitions are two D who have catcher speed in a fast skating league in Franson and Gorges. His other 2 key pieces, Bogo and Kuilkov, who were intended to make a strong physical, puck moving and good skating 2nd pair have been simply horrible.   Their failure have been one the reasons we got almost zero offense out of our D in the 1st half of the season (beside Risto) and continue to be the source of huge issues getting the puck out of our end.  The whole groups failure to get possession of the puck in our zone and move it up the boards to the forwards has been one of the key issues that have allowed teams to cycle in our zone and take 40 shots a night. 

 

I have said he drafted too many forwards at the expense of getting a couple of decent higher end D picks other then Guhle, which he should have done as he moved out prospects/players like McNabb, Zadorov and Pysyk.  In his 3 drafts, GMTM has made 8 1st and 2nd rd picks (in addition to trading 2 1st rd picks away).  Of those 8 picks, only one was spent on a D (Guhle),  this despite having or acquiring 6 solid forwards from the prior draft (Hurley, Compher, Baptiste, Bailey, Carrier, and Fasching).  

 

So if you look at our prospect pipeline we have only 3 reasonable D prospects in Guhle, Borgen (4th rd pick) and Fitzgerald (3rd rd pick)

Now compare to our 11 solid forward prospects; Bailey, Baptiste, Cornel, Nylander, Pu, Asplund, Carrier, Fasching, Karabacek, Estephan (6th rd pick ), plus Hurley (2nd rd pick).  Our pipeline is completely out of balance.

Edited February 17, 2017 by GASabresIUFAN

[Derrico]

I think you should go look in the mirror. We did check on you. You were still breathing so we decided to draw penises all over your face with Sharpie.

:w00t:

[LTS]

I never said that.  I never said the D group inherited didn't stink or that he hasn't upgraded the talent on the roster over all.   

 

I said he created the mess on D. His best acquisitions are two D who have catcher speed in a fast skating league in Franson and Gorges. His other 2 key pieces, Bogo and Kuilkov, who were intended to make a strong physical, puck moving and good skating 2nd pair have been simply horrible.   Their failure have been one the reasons we got almost zero offense out of our D in the 1st half of the season (beside Risto) and continue to be the source of huge issues getting the puck out of our end.  The whole groups failure to get possession of the puck in our zone and move it up the boards to the forwards has been one of the key issues that have allowed teams to cycle in our zone and take 40 shots a night. 

 

I have said he drafted too many forwards at the expense of getting a couple of decent higher end D picks other then Guhle, which he should have done as he moved out prospects/players like McNabb, Zadorov and Pysyk.  In his 3 drafts, GMTM has made 8 1st and 2nd rd picks (in addition to trading 2 1st rd picks away).  Of those 8 picks, only one was spent on a D (Guhle),  this despite having or acquiring 6 solid forwards from the prior draft (Hurley, Compher, Baptiste, Bailey, Carrier, and Fasching).  

 

So if you look at our prospect pipeline we have only 3 reasonable D prospects in Guhle, Borgen (4th rd pick) and Fitzgerald (3rd rd pick)

Now compare to our 11 solid forward prospects; Bailey, Baptiste, Cornel, Nylander, Pu, Asplund, Carrier, Fasching, Karabacek, Estephan (6th rd pick ), plus Hurley (2nd rd pick).  Our pipeline is completely out of balance.

 

Are you blaming Kulikov and Bogosian for failures in the first half of the season (each has missed 26 of the 58 games the Sabres have played) or do you mean the whole group in the bolded part.  Just trying to make sure I understand.

 

As for the draft pick usage.  I understand your point. I'd have to get more in depth to know who was passed over at each round when he picked a forward.  At the same time, the Sabres have some forward prospects they can move for some D prospects I guess.