Taro T Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Why are people saying Kane would best be dealt in the offseason? Wouldn't a desperate team be more likely to overpay during the season?They might. But they will not give up ANYTHING that is presently useful for Kane (or any other deadline SC run pickup for that matter). Why would the Sabres (who are a coach away from being in the playoffs this season) trade one of the league's best ES goal scorers for stuff that will theoretically help in ~3 years? (Which is when prospects &/or picks realistically actually beome useful.) Can we all agree it's time for this team to take the next step, rather than do a partial/full reload? Trading Kane for ANYTHING BUT a Fowler-type will not move this team forward in the near-present. If a trade won't make the Sabres better for an extended period beginning IN '17-'18 (at the latest) it isn't worth making IMHO. There isn't a trade for Kane out there at the deadline that meets that criteria. And, again, my opinion is Sabres should keep him unless the offer simply blows TM away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 They might. But they will not give up ANYTHING that is presently useful for Kane (or any other deadline SC run pickup for that matter). Why would the Sabres (who are a coach away from being in the playoffs this season) trade one of the league's best ES goal scorers for stuff that will theoretically help in ~3 years? (Which is when prospects &/or picks realistically actually beome useful.) Can we all agree it's time for this team to take the next step, rather than do a partial/full reload? Trading Kane for ANYTHING BUT a Fowler-type will not move this team forward in the near-present. If a trade won't make the Sabres better for an extended period beginning IN '17-'18 (at the latest) it isn't worth making IMHO. There isn't a trade for Kane out there at the deadline that meets that criteria. And, again, my opinion is Sabres should keep him unless the offer simply blows TM away. Good post. I agree that any reasonably likely acceptable return for Kane would almost certainly need to come in the off-season, as opposed to at the coming deadline. I'm also in the camp that says the return for Kane needs to be a very good one in order for moving him to make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Agree with Taro. For a deal to work, the team would have to really believe Kane is their missing piece. Kane, Kulikov, Baptiste/Bailey for Fowler. Kane, Kulikov, 2017 first for Vatanen Theodore If Anaheim wants Kane at the deadline those are the kind of trades that would get my attention. Kane fills their biggest need, Kulikov replaces the starting six hole they create, and the third element immediately becomes their best forward prospect along with Ritchie. Each deal would also solve their expansion draft problems. Might take some retention but the contracts should fit. Edited February 21, 2017 by dudacek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustache of God Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 In TBN's mailbag they had an interesting stat. That was we earning .517 pts per game, which, despite our small streak, is 13th in the conference. Meaning that with our week off, the teams behind us in the standings should pass us in the standings leaving us with a very very remote shot at the playoffs. Bottomline: Sell. Problem; who do replace Franson and Kulikov with after they get traded? I agree that any Gionta deal with be very quiet until it's announced and GMTM will say" we hadn't planned on trading our Captain, he wanted to stay and we hope to bring him back next year, but when one of the top teams calls and you get another shot a winning a Cup, we wanted to give him that opportunity." Besides Gionta, any other forwards you seeing being moved at the deadline? I wouldn't be surprised to see a combination of Foligno, Girgensons, Moulson, Ennis, one of our recent AHL callups, and a draft pick put together in return for help on the blue-line. I'm hoping Franson and Kuli get moved as I don't see us bringing back Franson and I think Kulkov would do better for himself financially as a UFA rather than resigning here and I'd rather not lose them for nothing. If we come out of the deadline with a somewhat established defensive prospect, somebody with a high(er) than average ceiling, I'll be happy. I'm not expecting any big moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 0 things will happen at the deadline, to many teams in the east are still in the playoff hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) 0 things will happen at the deadline, to many teams in the east are still in the playoff hunt.Oh I don't know about 0 things. There is situational awareness to consider. Take Anaheim for example (and really, the prime example), they are in a real conundrum on several fronts. First, Fowler, Lindholm, Vatanen, Mason and Bieksa ( who must be protected) are 5 d-men that require protection. Bieksa, as noted, is a must. He's already stated he won't waive, last summer. So 2 LHD and 2 RHD. Something has to give or lose one for nothing and may have to actually pay so Vegas doesn't get to choose that something. I don't picture Ducks ownership or their GM as the type to give assets away when you can receive assets instead, do you? Second, there is Getzlaf, Perry and Kesler's window to contend to seriously consider for them. In May, Getzlaf and Perry turn 32, Kesler will be 33 at the start of next season. You can bet the Ducks are fully aware the window is on the back side. It's closing, 3 maybe 4 years? But this year and next look like all systems go for Cup runs. Third, needs! This can not be stressed enough. Anaheim has scoring woes on the wings. They need a top 6 scoring LW'er, a depth top nine utility 2 way winger that can net some pucks and a further RW ELC type at or near NHL level player for depth. Fourth, backup goaltending is shaky with Bernier at best. They'll need an upgrade that is also a UFA to allow them flexibility. I don't know, but the more i see Anaheim's situation, the more I see the Sabres as the right dance partner at the right time. Edited February 21, 2017 by Lucky E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Oh I don't know about 0 things. There is situational awareness to consider. Take Anaheim for example (and really, the prime example), they are in a real conundrum on several fronts. First, Fowler, Lindholm, Vatanen, Mason and Bieksa ( who must be protected) are 5 d-men that require protection. Bieksa, as noted, is a must. He's already stated he won't waive, last summer. So 2 LHD and 2 RHD. Something has to give or lose one for nothing and may have to actually pay so Vegas doesn't get to choose that something. I don't picture Ducks ownership or their GM ad the type to give assets away when you can receive assets instead, do you? Second, there is Getzlaf, Perry and Kesler's window to contend to seriously consider for them. In May, Getzlaf and Perry turn 32, Kesler's will be 33 at the start of next season. You can by the Ducks are fully aware the window is on the back side. It's closing, 3 maybe 4 years? But this year and next look like all systems go for Cup runs. Third, needs! This can not be stressed enough. Anaheim has scoring woes on the wings. They need a top 6 scoring LW'er, a depth top nine utility 2 way winger that can net some pucks and a further RW ELC type at or near NHL level player for depth. Fourth, backup goaltending is shaky with Bernier at best. They'll need an upgrade that is also a UFA to allow them flexibility. I don't know, but the more i see Anaheim's situation, the more I see the Sabres ad the right dance partner at the right time. Interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Why are people saying Kane would best be dealt in the offseason? Wouldn't a desperate team be more likely to overpay during the season? Cap issues too. I would imagine most playoff teams don't have room for Kane's contract. In the offseason there is time to address that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Agree with Taro. For a deal to work, the team would have to really believe Kane is their missing piece. Kane, Kulikov, Baptiste/Bailey for Fowler. Kane, Kulikov, 2017 first for Vatanen Theodore If Anaheim wants Kane at the deadline those are the kind of trades that would get my attention. Kane fills their biggest need, Kulikov replaces the starting six hole they create, and the third element immediately becomes their best forward prospect along with Ritchie. Each deal would also solve their expansion draft problems. Might take some retention but the contracts should fit. #1 maybe, #2 no thanks Vatanen has been bad and my 1st could end up winning the lottery for all we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Agree with Taro. For a deal to work, the team would have to really believe Kane is their missing piece. Kane, Kulikov, Baptiste/Bailey for Fowler. Kane, Kulikov, 2017 first for Vatanen Theodore If Anaheim wants Kane at the deadline those are the kind of trades that would get my attention. Kane fills their biggest need, Kulikov replaces the starting six hole they create, and the third element immediately becomes their best forward prospect along with Ritchie. Each deal would also solve their expansion draft problems. Might take some retention but the contracts should fit. Make it a complete deal. In order for cap to work, 50% retention on Kane, Nilsson, Gionta,one of Bailey/Baptiste, Manny 2nd, Buf/Was 3rd and we take Ritchie, Vatanen, Montour and Bernier. Adds 2.3 mil to the cap. We have the space. Saw this on another post, it's a good fit. Numbers check out according to capfriendly and fills needs on both teams. Allows deals for Kulikov and Mason seperatly for each club (Kulikov obviously deadline but Mason can ride until pre-expansion draft). This gives both teams flexibility, fills needs and solves issues. Protect Risto, McCabe, Vatanen, expose Bogosain, Gorges. On forwards, protect ROR, Okposo, Carrier, Foligno, Girgensons, Larsson and Des racing Ennis and Moulson exposed, forcing Vegas to take one out of the 4 bad contracts. And to further this, they'd most likely take Bogo and swing back around with one of their free slots for Ennis. It is a great deal many moving parts, be the hero Tim, get it done! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Cap issues too. I would imagine most playoff teams don't have room for Kane's contract. In the offseason there is time to address that. This is probably the best reason presented. Sure, a team looking to make a SC run may not want to give up productive contributors. But, when a team is stacked with D and has an anemic offense, they're going to want to balance that team out. Balanced teams with great depth are the ones that go deep into the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted February 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2017 How many trades? 2? 3? More/Less? When does he make his first trade? Monday? Tuesday? Or on Deadline Day? Who is first to go? Gionta? Kulikov? Franson? Kane? Nilsson? Other? Any big surprises by GMTM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 No moves at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ct fab Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 I'd Say over under is 2. He definitely won't make zero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted February 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Could Nilsson already be gone? Ullmark recalled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Could Nilsson already be gone? Ullmark recalled! Nilsson is starting tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted February 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Here is a pretty good list of who is available and who might be interested. http://www.thefourthperiod.com/trade_deadline/top25/ Both Kulikov and Franson are on the list, but Kane isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Flush the entire bowl of turds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 I'm gonna go out on a limb and say we're selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresBillsFan Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 We need defense badly. I'm not just putting Murray on notice but our scouts have to start hitting on late picks. To me that's what's killing this rebuild. With all the picks we had the last few years you have to find some sleepers. Now you move on to some of his trades and 1/2 of the trade looks like garbage. I just think Bogo and Kulikov are just plain brutal. I know Kane and Asplund were the key pieces to those trades but both of the defenseman we got seem like they don't know how to play defense anymore. I think Murray has to be put on notice he created a lot of this mess. And then you watch Toronto blow past us in the rebuild that's unacceptable in my book. Now people want Disco Dan gone and we had a chance to and could of picked up Julian and let him go by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Bogosian is -11 even after missing nearly half the season due to injuries. Kulikov even worse at -15 after 36 games played. Terrible! Gorges needs to be shown the door too - he is just terrible; he looks slow and useless. His plus minus is "ok" at -4, but only 3 pts total after 46 games, and an average TOI of 18 minutes plus? Brutal - his worst season ever in the NHL. These 3 high dollar d-men have a whopping total of 2 goals and 9 points, for 12.4 MILLION dollars in salary this year cumulative. Any playoff bound team - the top d men are gonna be contributing more offensively than these useless slugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterDays06 Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 I don't care what the hell happens. If we do not build a top contending defense, then this team is always going to be worthless. Risto is just rotting away on a crappy D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Could Nilsson already be gone? Ullmark recalled! Per WGR, Lehner didn't play "as a precaution" because he took some knocks in the game against Colorado. Hopefully he didn't get concussed on any of those hits but, given his history, that's pretty alarming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted February 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) We need defense badly. I'm not just putting Murray on notice but our scouts have to start hitting on late picks. To me that's what's killing this rebuild. With all the picks we had the last few years you have to find some sleepers. Now you move on to some of his trades and 1/2 of the trade looks like garbage. I just think Bogo and Kulikov are just plain brutal. I know Kane and Asplund were the key pieces to those trades but both of the defenseman we got seem like they don't know how to play defense anymore. I think Murray has to be put on notice he created a lot of this mess. And then you watch Toronto blow past us in the rebuild that's unacceptable in my book. Now people want Disco Dan gone and we had a chance to and could of picked up Julian and let him go by. Bogosian is -11 even after missing nearly half the season due to injuries. Kulikov even worse at -15 after 36 games played. Terrible! Gorges needs to be shown the door too - he is just terrible; he looks slow and useless. His plus minus is "ok" at -4, but only 3 pts total after 46 games, and an average TOI of 18 minutes plus? Brutal - his worst season ever in the NHL. These 3 high dollar d-men have a whopping total of 2 goals and 9 points, for 12.4 MILLION dollars in salary this year cumulative. Any playoff bound team - the top d men are gonna be contributing more offensively than these useless slugs. I have been saying this for months. Many here are saying this is DD's fault. While some of the blame does belong to him, with a D this bad Jack Adams and Scotty Bowman couldn't make this team good. The truth is after McCabe and Risto, the other 4 starting D on this team need to go asap. Start with trading Franson and Kulikov to anyone who wants them. Next bring in Guhle and sign and bring in Borgen once their seasons end. Demote Bogo to limited 3rd pair duty. Trade Kane, now for a top 4 D, or if can't make the trade this summer. Minn must trade Brodin and Ana needs to trade a D to avoid losing a top forward t expansion. These seem like good places to start. Acquire some legit 3rd pairing D depth at the deadline to finish out the season and let them audition for coming back next year. For example, other sellers have some older UFA's that they might be willing to part with for a late draft pick. Next expose Bogo and Gorges to the expansion draft and pray. Next buyout Gorges when he isn't taken. Right now, we have 6 D actually signed for next year. Risto, McCabe, Gorges, Bogo, Guhle and Falk. I have no problem with Falk as a 7th D and Bogo as a 5/6. I've at least seen Bogo play some good D in a Sabres uniform and don't see GMTM beng able to get of him until after next season. Hopefully Guhle is ready and can earn a full time spot next season. That leaves, once Gorges is bought out 2 slots in our top 6 to be acquired through trade or free agency or even if Borgen is also ready for NHL duty. If Guhle isn't ready, then another D will be needed. There are also 4 d ranked 9-12 in the CSS NA list for this coming draft. I'd draft whichever of them really stands out. The Sabres sit 22nd in the NHL standings, which places us 10th in the draft (assuming no lottery win and adding LV in front of us), and thus inthe sweet spot for one of these D. Edited February 27, 2017 by GASabresIUFAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAud Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Hammond is done for the season in Ottawa...trade Nilsson for a pick or prospect. Can consider to resign him in the off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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