Should Samson Be Sent To Minors?

[pi2000]

My redraft would be something like:

1.) Ekblad

2.) Nylander

3.) Ehlers

4.) Reinhart/Draisaitl

5.) Reinhart/Draisaitl

6.) Larkin

7.) Pastrnak

 

Pastrnak is alright...he's basically doubled his career shooting percentage in this stretch this season, has only 7 assists, and is greatly being pumped up by playing with stars, Bergeron and Marchand. He's good, but not 1st overall good. This is a classic case of a lot of puck luck causing what will be several years of overrating, and people constantly asking "What's wrong with Pastrnak?" when he really just regresses back to what he normally is.

 

Nylander, IMO, is going to be a superstar. Ehlers is incredible. Reinhart and Draisaitl are interchangeable for me, though I do think Samson would out-produce him if he spent the last 100 games playing 100% of the time with either McDavid or Hall. 

 

I do think that ultimately, Ekblad is the defenseman of this up-and-coming generation of hockey players.

 

 

"puck luck"?   I think not.

 

I can't imagine Reinhart pulling this off.    Pastrnak is filthy, he can skate, he can dangle, he can snipe, a natural goal scorer.    There aren't too many players like him the league. 

 

Draisaitly hasn't played with either McDavid or Hall this season and he has 28 points in 33 games, which is almost a point per game pace playing with guys like Maroon and Caggiula.   

Edited December 19, 2016 by pi2000

[WildCard]

Has NS not read this thread?

[SwampD]

 

"puck luck"?   I think not.

 

I can't imagine Reinhart pulling this off.    Pastrnak is filthy, he can skate, he can dangle, he can snipe, a natural goal scorer.    There aren't too many players like him the league. 

I can.

 

I even think we already have seen him pull that off.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Has NS not read this thread?

 

Oh, I've read it alright.

 

Samson to the minors ... nonsense, I say ...  ;)

 

Oh, and ...

 

EHLERS!!

 

I take him at #1.  I do believe I recommended that way back when ...  :flirt:

[Doohickie]

I think McJesus and Eichel are just the tip of the iceberg.  There is a wealth of talent coming into the league starting with the 2014 draft class.  When these guys mature a bit and get more linemates in the upcoming drafts, I think the NHL is going to be a different, much faster, much more skilled, game. 

[pi2000]

I can.

 

I even think we already have seen him pull that off.

 

video?   I don't remember him ever scoring a goal like that.   90% of Reinhart's goals are deflections or picking up trash around the net, which are nice, but he doesn't have the shot, hands, agility, or speed of a Pastrnak or Draisaitl to beat guys consistently one-on-one.

 

...and I don't mean to bag on Reinhart, he's not an electric finesse player who gets you out of your seat when he touches the puck... his game is more about playmaking, and puck movement, he's made some very nice passes from behind the net, but we're all hoping there's more to his game and that it starts to show soon.   

Edited December 19, 2016 by pi2000

[Randall Flagg]

Pi, one video of some skill doesn't address any of the points I made. He's not going to continue to score at this clip, and is being elevated by two of the best players in the game right now. "Puck luck" is a shooting percentage that's hovered between 20 and 30 percent all season long, when his previous career average was like 11.

I can show you a nine year old who can do a between-the-legs-puck-lift-spin-lacrosse-shoot and will never make the NHL. 

 

He's still an excellent player, playing some unsustainable hockey at the moment.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Randall Flagg

[pi2000]

Pi, one video of some skill doesn't address any of the points I made. He's not going to continue to score at this clip, and is being elevated by two of the best players in the game right now. "Puck luck" is a shooting percentage that's hovered between 20 and 30 percent all season long, when his previous career average was like 11.

 

I can show you a nine year old who can do a between-the-legs-puck-lift-spin-lacrosse-shoot and will never make the NHL. 

 

He's still an excellent player, playing some unsustainable hockey at the moment.

 

Why are you looking at career average when he's only 20 years old and still growing and developing?

 

His shooting percentage is 20%,    Last season the top scorers in the league were in the high teens.   Sure, we can expect his shooting % to regress a bit, but you can't pass off his success as simply puck luck if you've watched him play.   He's electric.    

 

There's a reason he's on a line with Bergeron and Marchand, it's because he deserves to be there, and he's only played half the season with them anyway.  

 

I still take him first overall.  

[Randall Flagg]

Why are you looking at career average when he's only 20 years old and still growing and developing?

 

His shooting percentage is 20%,    Last season the top scorers in the league were in the high teens.   Sure, we can expect his shooting % to regress a bit, but you can't pass off his success as simply puck luck if you've watched him play.   He's electric.    

 

There's a reason he's on a line with Bergeron and Marchand, it's because he deserves to be there, and he's only played half the season with them anyway.  

 

I still take him first overall.  

You're right that there isn't a huge amount of data for him yet, but he still did play two chunks of NHL seasons larger than what he's done so far this season. His shot didn't suddenly become twice as good as it was between his second and third season. His 7 assists are sort of concerning, for when he settles into being a 30 goal scorer instead of the 57 goal pace he's on right now. That's going to drag down his point totals.

 

And I like Pastrnak, and agree he's deserved that promotion. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't take the promotion into consideration when analyzing his performance. He's helping the line, and they're probably helping him more. 

 

Right now he's the best of the bunch. Just like Barrett Jackman was the best of a rookie crop that had Zetterberg and Rick Nash, or Mason was the best of the young crop including Doughty, Stamkos, Quick, and Giroux. I expect the landscape to look much different years from now, like it did in these cases. Only time will tell.

[Norcal]

no

[bob_sauve28]

Been watching him lately and he is finally starting to hit and play better in the corners. A work in progress but he is being more physical. Once he gets that down and finds a way to encorporate it into his passing game, I think hell be fine. I think he just needs to work thru it. Its coming be patient.

I remember last year when he was taking more wrist shots. Seems like he was progressing, getting more and better shots along with good passing, now even his passing isn't there. Taken a step back. Hope he works it out soon.

[dudacek]

 

"puck luck"?   I think not.

 

I can't imagine Reinhart pulling this off.    Pastrnak is filthy, he can skate, he can dangle, he can snipe, a natural goal scorer.    There aren't too many players like him the league. 

 

Draisaitly hasn't played with either McDavid or Hall this season and he has 28 points in 33 games, which is almost a point per game pace playing with guys like Maroon and Caggiula.

 

I'm pretty sure Draisaitl has been skating at the right hand of McJesus pretty much all season.

He's also no faster than Sam.

 

We would have a lot of arguments in our Sabrespace scouting meetings - you obviously value speed and stick handling over all else, whereas I go for ability to read the game.

[nfreeman]

I would not favor sending Reino down.

 

And I agree that the book on that draft is far from written.

 

And that Reino could prove to be a better player than the other forwards taken after him, by affecting the game in a different way than a guy like Pastrnak or Draisaitl does.

 

But he's definitely in his head right now.  He coughs it up and squanders possessions in the offensive zone with distressing frequency.  And he's playing with good linemates, not plumbers.

 

I want to see more from him.  Much more.

[nucci]

Those guys are all struggling to find consistency too. I'm just not worried at all. 

Me neither...they're all very young and still learning

[TheAud]

I don't think sending him down will accomplish anything positive in the long run and could be quite detrimental in the short run. There's no doubt he is one of our top 9 forwards and this is coming from someone who thinks he's not really playing that well. 

It's too early to judge but so far I he feels like a 2nd overall pick not unlike Dave Legwand...more offense and less defense than Legwand but that caliber of player. This is a nice player to have on your team but a bit less than you're hoping for from the #2 overall. However at this point, he's on the roster and his draft position is irrelevant. 

I like him on a line with ROR as much as possible as Ryan's work ethic and hockey sense seems to keep Samson on the right path whereas when he gets on a line with less disciplined (or hockey smart) guys like Kane or even Eichel (who's still finding his NHL game), he seems to lose the thread a bit. Maybe a 3rd line role with Gionta would be OK for a while as well. 

[Claude_Verret]

No.  Samson will be instrumental to our second half push towards the playoffs.

[That Aud Smell]

The idea of sending Reinhart to Rochester strikes me as nothing less than bizarre. A few games in the press box, if the coach thought that were warranted. But nothing more.

 

I'm not willing to demote him just yet, he's still young and developing but has a ways to go.   He's a fine young player, but as a #2 overall you want to see more from him, considering the guys that went after him....  Draisaitl, Bennett, Nylander, Larkin.

 

I think it's a mistake to get hung up on either of draft position or the numbers being posted by his peers in that draft. That draft is over. I'm not judging Reinhart on whether he was picked 2nd overall or 42nd overall at this point. Nor do I care a whit about who was picked after him. I think that sort of thinking tends to cloud an analysis of who and what he is, and where he's projecting to be. I just want him to grow, develop, and become the effective top-6 NHL forward that he almost certainly will become. 

 

One post script: Stacking him up against his peers could be useful, I suppose, if GM TM were of a mind to move him, but I just don't see that happening.

[Samson's Flow]

I think part of all this concern is the way we went about acquiring both Samson and Eichel was so painful for the fanbase, that we want to see immediate returns from our suffering. We forget that these are 19 and 20 yr old players, and the amazing ability of Eichel to be a difference maker day 1 has skewed our expectations of young players into unrealistic territory.

 

Reinhart's development is exactly in line with how a young high pick should be, as he is #4 in points on the team and a key contributor as a 2nd year player. We as a fanbase cannot hold him up to the same standard as Eichel, who is a elite generational talent and has deviated completely from the standard development tree. Give it time, and see where we are when our #2 picks are in their primes as 25 yr old players.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Color me confused.

Sam had 42 pts last year and is on pace for 41 this season. His 23 goals last year make this season look like a slump I guess, but his goals to assists ratio is more like I expected when he came out of jrs. 2g for 3a.

 

He has 3 pts in 8 games in December, not great, but not far from his season average. Call this a slump if you want. He is too talented a player to "slump" for to long. Leave him on the ice and let him work through it. He will.

[Doohickie]

Give it time, and see where we are when our #2 picks are in their primes as 25 yr old players.

 

....which realistically is when the Sabres can hope to be a Cup contender.  It won't be before then.

[pi2000]

The idea of sending Reinhart to Rochester strikes me as nothing less than bizarre. A few games in the press box, if the coach thought that were warranted. But nothing more.

 

 

I think it's a mistake to get hung up on either of draft position or the numbers being posted by his peers in that draft. That draft is over. I'm not judging Reinhart on whether he was picked 2nd overall or 42nd overall at this point. Nor do I care a whit about who was picked after him. I think that sort of thinking tends to cloud an analysis of who and what he is, and where he's projecting to be. I just want him to grow, develop, and become the effective top-6 NHL forward that he almost certainly will become. 

 

One post script: Stacking him up against his peers could be useful, I suppose, if GM TM were of a mind to move him, but I just don't see that happening.

 

It's a mistake to judge Samson as a player based on where he was drafted.

 

It's not unfair to judge GMTM based on performance of players selected after Samson. 

 

Going back to 2014, BUF desperately needed a C, and they had no idea they would land Eichel the following year, or that O'Reilly would become available.

 

For that reason I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved at some point... and if he wasn't so tight with Eichel he may have already been moved.

 

I think GMTM is still waiting to see how this lineup shakes out over the course of the season.   It's still not clear where Reinhart fits in the top 6.  

[North Buffalo]

It's a mistake to judge Samson as a player based on where he was drafted.

 

It's not unfair to judge GMTM based on performance of players selected after Samson. 

 

Going back to 2014, BUF desperately needed a C, and they had no idea they would land Eichel the following year, or that O'Reilly would become available.

 

For that reason I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved at some point... and if he wasn't so tight with Eichel he may have already been moved.

 

I think GMTM is still waiting to see how this lineup shakes out over the course of the season.   It's still not clear where Reinhart fits in the top 6.

 

I think he makes a very good play making winger and high end secondary scorer with Jack. Still learning physical side and jack needs a scoring winger on the other side a la Nylander or Pu or high end draft pick.

[That Aud Smell]

It's a mistake to judge Samson as a player based on where he was drafted.

 

It's not unfair to judge GMTM based on performance of players selected after Samson. 

 

Going back to 2014, BUF desperately needed a C, and they had no idea they would land Eichel the following year, or that O'Reilly would become available.

 

For that reason I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved at some point... and if he wasn't so tight with Eichel he may have already been moved.

 

I think GMTM is still waiting to see how this lineup shakes out over the course of the season.   It's still not clear where Reinhart fits in the top 6.  

 

I agree with just about all of this - and for the stuff toward the end, I may not agree but I think it's a more than fair take. (Given the needs on D, you can see Reinhart's name being in play, yeah?)

 

I think he makes a very good play making winger and high end secondary scorer with Jack. Still learning physical side and jack needs a scoring winger on the other side a la Nylander or Pu or high end draft pick.

 

Agree with this as well.

[GASabresIUFAN]

It's a mistake to judge Samson as a player based on where he was drafted.

 

It's not unfair to judge GMTM based on performance of players selected after Samson. 

 

Going back to 2014, BUF desperately needed a C, and they had no idea they would land Eichel the following year, or that O'Reilly would become available.

 

For that reason I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved at some point... and if he wasn't so tight with Eichel he may have already been moved.

 

I think GMTM is still waiting to see how this lineup shakes out over the course of the season.   It's still not clear where Reinhart fits in the top 6.

 

You make some solid points, but there is no way Reinhart was ever in trade discussions at this point in his career Jack or no Jack. Sam is a top 6 player on this team and you don't trade away a top 2 overall pick in his 2nd NHL season. These are just growing pains. Are we going to start complaining that Jack has only scored in 4 of his 9 games this season? Are people going to start comparing Sam to CoHo?

 

I agree that where Sam fits in the top 6 is the big question, especially as I don't see ROR moving to LW any time soon. I think it will depend on who is ultimately on the LW and how DD constructs the lines.

Here is how I look at our top 6

1) ROR - great two way player who can focus on goals or assists depending on his linemates.

2) Eichel - superstar who can do anything, but his goal scoring ability is paramount for this team.

3) Okposo - kind of a RW version of ROR, but might be a better playmaker then ROR.

4) Reinhart - I always thought of him as a playmaker first, and his net front presence last season was a huge surprise. However, i think his long-term place is a playmaker.

5) Nylander - showing in Roch, that he is more playmaker then goal scorer so far.

 

Who is the 6th? A scorer like Kane or Baptiste? Someone else?

I like the following for 2018-19

Nylander Eichel Okposo

Baptiste ROR Reinhart

[pi2000]

You make some solid points, but there is no way Reinhart was ever in trade discussions at this point in his career Jack or no Jack. Sam is a top 6 player on this team and you don't trade away a top 2 overall pick in his 2nd NHL season. These are just growing pains. Are we going to start complaining that Jack has only scored in 4 of his 9 games this season? Are people going to start comparing Sam to CoHo?

 

I agree that where Sam fits in the top 6 is the big question, especially as I don't see ROR moving to LW any time soon. I think it will depend on who is ultimately on the LW and how DD constructs the lines.

Here is how I look at our top 6

1) ROR - great two way player who can focus on goals or assists depending on his linemates.

2) Eichel - superstar who can do anything, but his goal scoring ability is paramount for this team.

3) Okposo - kind of a RW version of ROR, but might be a better playmaker then ROR.

4) Reinhart - I always thought of him as a playmaker first, and his net front presence last season was a huge surprise. However, i think his long-term place is a playmaker.

5) Nylander - showing in Roch, that he is more playmaker then goal scorer so far.

 

Who is the 6th? A scorer like Kane or Baptiste? Someone else?

I like the following for 2018-19

Nylander Eichel Okposo

Baptiste ROR Reinhart

 

Good points here.   

 

I haven't seen much of Nylander, until he does something I'm not going to forecast him into the top 6.... is he Ennis? or Afinogenov?  Who knows.   Same with Baptiste... to me, he forecasts as more of a 3rd liner. 

 

Speaking of Ennis, if healthy he can be a dynamic player and deserves consideration for a slot in the top 6.    I'd like to see a healthy version of him with Eichel and whoever.     With Eichel creating space, Ennis will have room to dance around and do what he does.

 

My problem with Reinhart is that he's not a very good skater and the league is trending toward quicker, faster, more agile players.   He's a cerebral puck mover, which is valuable, but I don't know that's enough to garner a spot in the top 6.   Ultimately I see him at center, and if so, he'd be out of the top 6... which isn't terrible.   Imagine a 3rd line with Reinhart, Baptiste or Bailey, and a maybe an Ennis or Fasching in a few years, could be fun to watch.