Sabres' brass LOVES Leafs fans at FNC

[PASabreFan]

Just two more things and then I really have to stop. The idea that I coined the term Pegulaville as a slam on Terry is hilarious. Google image search is your friend. Also hilarious: that I sent Liger over the edge. He had a similar outburst against Eleven recently.

[WildCard]

What was th Liger-Eleven thing?

[darksabre]

Did you guys see where Sizzle agreed with me on something?

 

Brb gonna go rethink my whole position :p

[TrueBlueGED]

Just two more things and then I really have to stop. The idea that I coined the term Pegulaville as a slam on Terry is hilarious. Google image search is your friend. Also hilarious: that I sent Liger over the edge. He had a similar outburst against Eleven recently.

 

Ah yes, the stadium thread. It was glorious :lol:

[SwampD]

I'm convinced that Jim Morrison is alive and well living somewhere in NW PA and is a Sabres fan.

 

This thread is glorious.

[spndnchz]

Russ Brandon has never struck me as a guy who actually even likes sports. He's reached a very high point in an ultra-competitive industry. 

 

Look I used to work in marketing. One of the quickest way to get yourself ingratiating with the guys on top is to find a way to increase the bottom line at any costs. If you need to screw over your customers to do it, the question you ask is "would we get away with it?" and not "are we being loyal?". 

 

So I get it. And I get that Brandon probably knows as much about hockey as my mother and needs to prove himself ASAP. But where the hell is Pegula in all of this? The billionaire who got the city to spread it's legs over a tearful press conference. His actions with the Sabres since he purchased the Bills have been far different from his words that day. 

 

I think PA sensed a phoniness. Ghost mentioned his concern for the city to me before he got banned. The Pegula/Bills press conference told me all I need to know about how Pegula truly feels about the Sabres. Like dating the average looking girl in order to get with her hotter friend. Slick, but messed up. 

 

 

 

There's something fishy going on here and some posters are beginning to sniff it out. Warning PA seems to me to be part of a slow plan to get rid of the "trolls" and turn this forum into pure conformity. Something similar has been happening on TBD. 

 

At the very least the mods don't like people criticizing ownership if the reason isn't "valid". To which I say, why would the mods care if they have no interests tied up with One Buffalo? I understand getting annoyed. But warning long-time posters who seem genuine about their concerns? Fishy fishy fishy.

 

  

Actually, someone was threatened with "limited" posting abilities, whatever it was exactly and whatever that means, exactly.  And, prior to that, the OP's thoughts were mixed up with the concept of the OP.  If spndchz had made the OP, saying she was uncomfortable with the Sabres seemingly inviting the enemy into the building, would we be in this exact spot, now?  Would liger gone ballistic? I submit not.

 

And then there was discussion about "posting lies" and how it's all just speculation. Ridiculous.  It was a theory, and started an interesting discussion topic.  The problem wasn't the content of the OP, the problem in this thread was how certain people responded.  The problem is that some people simply can't get over what they think the OP, in this case, intends each time he posts.  One could simply, and rationally, disagree.  But, instead, several attacked the OP personally, instead of taking apart his theory. 

 

So, IMHO, the thought behind the OP really isn't an issue.  That can be discussed.  The issue is the way certain people responded, and instead of taking responsibility for their responses, they blamed the OP for...being the OP.  And then the OP was threatened to change his behavior, and not post certain types of otherwise innocuous topics, elsewise they will be punished for being rationally unique. 

 

I see it like d4rk.  It's like a mindset has set in to white-wash the content of the board and neutralize the personalities and conversations that make this board stand out in the first place.  It's like fancy-stats have made their way into conversation - if you can't back up your statements with some acceptable data, then your statements are not welcome.  That's boring.

 

  

I've had no private communication with Scott. I got a PM from chz, oddly worded, to the effect that, "If you don't see the type of poster you're being, I'm going to have to limit you." I got no reply to my response, which can be summed up as "huh?"

1) oh please

 

2) since when are pm's something you bring up in regular chat? Want me to pull up some pm's from previous years pa?

[dudacek]

Well, at least this thread isn't boring any more.

[Thorny]

Laughable. 

 

And there's a reason I put trolls in quotation marks. 

 

Yeah let's never question authority. 

 

This is more than a bit rich. There is no real "authority" being forced upon yourself, or anyone, here. It's an internet message board.

 

I wouldn't consider you a "hive-mind defender" like I would some other people, but I've never seen you post a provocative opinion on this board on par with what PA posted in this thread. 

 

I'm sure you have a lot of respect for him, but once you post something like he did and have to deal with the ad hominem attacks, you'll see the amount of courage and thick skin it takes. Even I can take so much before I need to take a break. To then be warned for it and then have his defenders be chided for "being ungrateful to SDS". Just a very Soviet Union feel here. 

 

Again, this is laying it on too thick. I like PA and reading his posts, but no one is courageous for posting on an internet message board about a hockey team. This particular topic did seem like a fair bit of a reach, but there's always intelligence and knowledge in his posts, and they seem to inspire good discussion. I enjoyed reading this thread, very much so.

 

Yes, it is.

 

 

Some have a very strong us or them streak, others take a more nuanced view. Sports fandom is a microcosm of real life.

 

Also know as The Tom Cruise/Matthew McConaughey paradigm.

 

What isn't Pegula doing, that he should be doing, to try to win the Cup? I agree he's got other stuff going on, but I see zero evidence that that reality is taking away from the Sabres.

 

Precisely.

 

I would expect the "some people just like to watch the world burn" quote.

 

And all I take from what has been said here since my most recent post is that some people take this place way too seriously. Censorship? Challenging authority? It's a freaking message board. The social and political angst is way over the top.

 

This is what I was trying to get at in the first bits of this post. Well said.

 

As long as I can drink beers during it, I'm down. Whoever can email me the best Pokemon card wins. And yes, I mean the original 150. 600 Pokemon?? Get that heathen ###### out of here 

 

I have a special edition Charizard! I'll trade it to you for some Marvel Overpower cards.

 

Pretty certain that Fearless Leader cares about it, which is what you appear to be concerned w/.

 

Not sure why you keep digressing from the specific issue into a more general one. Will TP sell out the locals to improve his bottom line? Well, he kept the Bills TO series going, so there's that. Uhhhh, he DIDN'T keep that going? :unsure:

 

Well, we still have the Gilbert quote as proof. Uhhhh, that was not as deep as the OP made it out to be? :unsure:

 

Well, people have been banned for posting in this thread. Uhhhhh, nobody was? :unsure: (Well, maybe Liger, but he had it coming for speculating about TP. :unsure: Oh, that was for going off on another poster (if he WAS in fact banned, which doesn't appear to have happened either).)

 

Really not sure what it is you're still up in arms over. (And won't be able to find out what it was for a while, as I must run now.)

 

Oh, you don't honestly expect somebody could quit you, do you?

 

This one is begging for the Liger treatment. I miss him already.

[SDS]

2) since when are pm's something you bring up in regular chat? Want me to pull up some pm's from previous years pa?

 

I was ready to just call it a day regarding this situation, but I would like to riff off this if I may...

 

When I first read the original post, I was fairly disgusted at the sight of yet another smear campaign being launched by the OP. Despite the wailings of the uninformed, I did what I do 99.9% of time - I ignored it. I did not intervene, comment, warn nor perform any action. I then checked back and saw LGR4GM's post. My level of disgust grew because he was baited into that reply. Again, I chose to ignore the thread because after years of this, after you tolerate it for so long, your instinct is just to tolerate more. I did not intervene, comment, warn nor perform any action. In fact, no moderator stepped in. Heavy-handed indeed!  :rolleyes: (I later learned that LGR4GM decided to step away from the board. I'm sensing a theme here...)

 

Later that evening, a member sent in an official complaint. That's normally when we step in - when someone asks us to (oh, the oppression...). While it was clear LGR4GM's comments were not worded according to community standards, it was also clear that the original post was meant to inflame. Stanley cup being flushed down the toilet? Games to be played in Hamilton? Gratuitous pot shots at the "fanatic superfan" owner? All over a single sentence? NONE of that verbiage was necessary to strike up a conversation about opposing teams fans in the building. NONE. Whatever legitimate discussion point the OP was attempting to make was drowned out in inflammatory rhetoric. 

 

So, a warning was issued to both parties... and I'll stand behind that 100%. And no, I don't care to hear anyone's rebuttal regarding this. Not your circus.

 

No one was banned, no posts removed (LGR4GM deleted his own post). Just a simple request to stop being an asshat. My word, not chz's.

 

Instead of the OP discussing this in private (or give enough time to discuss it in private... you know, like a responsible person confused by the situation would do), it was decided that his PRIVATE warning should IMMEDIATELY be the start of a PUBLIC spectacle. You know, the kind of spectacle we all enjoyed last December when he took it upon himself to announce GDD's departure.

 

And that was my match meet gasoline moment. This is where the OP continually raises his middle finger to me and the other volunteers. It was a bush league, divisive, dick move that accomplished nothing constructive. He posted that to create chaos and chaos is what we all got.

 

That's the moment when I decided speak up. That's a deliberate disruption of the community. Moderators should have the ability to contact people in private and work out issues without the Mean Girls' drama. We are not the enemy and we will not be treated as such.

 

And there is your timeline for anyone still harboring the notion that opinion is being stifled and moderation is heavy-handed or wondering why this thread became a lightning rod.

 

Easily 98% of all members that have came through the doors of TBD or SS have never had a post deleted or have been warned by a moderator. Participating conflict free in my communities comes with a giant red EASY button. How hard can it possibly be? The amount of work you need to do to overcome my desire to avoid conflict is immense. I would say 2% of the members command 98% of our attention. Well over 5 million posts have passed through our communities. Just a little perspective...

[nucci]

Littlle known fact? I named this site. I'm on the "masthead" as senior advisor and historian. SDS wants positivity? A while back I offered to write game recaps, something I've done for several other sites. They were usually funny (I thought so), at least somewhat clever, definitely offbeat and as pro-Sabres as you can get. It would have driven traffic to the site and generated posts. SDS showed no interest in my idea. I did write a regular post called This Day in Sabres History that people seemed to like, and I bet 98% of my 20,000+ posts here have been pro-Sabres and non controversial. I feel like RJ after the attention he got for his May Day call. He said he had been sitting in that booth doing the same thing for 20-plus years and no one outside of Buffalo really cared. I've been here since 2005, doing the same thing. I was all over Golisano and The Core before it was trendy. I've been on TP's butt since late in Day One probably and I think I have good reasons. I've been on lots of butts, because it's near criminal what has happened to my team since 2007. SDS recently offered to ship me hockey equipment! He also wrote, "You're fine," not that long ago after a kerfuffle much like this. I really have to wonder what changed. I don't think it was me.

I'm staying out of this discussion but I did like...This Day in Sabres History...

[That Aud Smell]

PA did include some hyperbole in his OP. I'm generally willing to separate wheat from chaff to get to an interesting point of discussion.

[NHLBUFF]

I was ready to just call it a day regarding this situation, but I would like to riff off this if I may...

 

When I first read the original post, I was fairly disgusted at the sight of yet another smear campaign being launched by the OP. Despite the wailings of the uninformed, I did what I do 99.9% of time - I ignored it. I did not intervene, comment, warn nor perform any action. I then checked back and saw LGR4GM's post. My level of disgust grew because he was baited into that reply. Again, I chose to ignore the thread because after years of this, after you tolerate it for so long, your instinct is just to tolerate more. I did not intervene, comment, warn nor perform any action. In fact, no moderator stepped in. Heavy-handed indeed! :rolleyes: (I later learned that LGR4GM decided to step away from the board. I'm sensing a theme here...)

 

Later that evening, a member sent in an official complaint. That's normally when we step in - when someone asks us to (oh, the oppression...). While it was clear LGR4GM's comments were not worded according to community standards, it was also clear that the original post was meant to inflame. Stanley cup being flushed down the toilet? Games to be played in Hamilton? Gratuitous pot shots at the "fanatic superfan" owner? All over a single sentence? NONE of that verbiage was necessary to strike up a conversation about opposing teams fans in the building. NONE. Whatever legitimate discussion point the OP was attempting to make was drowned out in inflammatory rhetoric.

 

So, a warning was issued to both parties... and I'll stand behind that 100%. And no, I don't care to hear anyone's rebuttal regarding this. Not your circus.

 

No one was banned, no posts removed (LGR4GM deleted his own post). Just a simple request to stop being an asshat. My word, not chz's.

 

Instead of the OP discussing this in private (or give enough time to discuss it in private... you know, like a responsible person confused by the situation would do), it was decided that his PRIVATE warning should IMMEDIATELY be the start of a PUBLIC spectacle. You know, the kind of spectacle we all enjoyed last December when he took it upon himself to announce GDD's departure.

 

And that was my match meet gasoline moment. This is where the OP continually raises his middle finger to me and the other volunteers. It was a bush league, divisive, dick move that accomplished nothing constructive. He posted that to create chaos and chaos is what we all got. <slow clap... George Bush - Mission Accomplished>

 

That's the moment when I decided speak up. That's a deliberate disruption of the community. Moderators should have the ability to contact people in private and work out issues without the Mean Girls' drama. We are not the enemy and we will not be treated as such.

 

And there is your timeline for anyone still harboring the notion that opinion is being stifled and moderation is heavy-handed or wondering why this thread became a lightning rod.

 

Easily 98% of all members that have came through the doors of TBD or SS have never had a post deleted or have been warned by a moderator. Participating conflict free in my communities comes with a giant red EASY button. How hard can it possibly be? The amount of work you need to do to overcome my desire to avoid conflict is immense. I would say 2% of the members command 98% of our attention. Well over 5 million posts have passed through our communities. Just a little perspective...

I have reading this entire thread since it started. I just don't get it! I find it amazing how many people rush to defend PA. LGR4GMs post was bang on. I thought all of your posts, SDS, were well thought out, and made perfect sense.

 

Honestly, read the article, read PAs posts. you'd have to be crazy to think he's trying to have a legitimate discussion about hockey.

 

Do you know what the Toronto maple leafs do when sabres fans show up in droves to the air Canada center? Neither do they, because they sell out!!! I don't care if Pegula paves the highway in gold in the FNC to SO! If we're not selling out who cares who is there! Stimulate the economy anyway you can. I don't get some people's ignorance on this issue. theres 100 posts that explain it perfectly up thread but some of you just don't get it!! Sure it's great to have discussion! But let's not sit here and discuss how Marcus foligno is the most skilled player on our team! Honestly you'd have a better chance of convincing me of that then the other bs in this thread.

 

One more thing. I especially don't understand this, so someone help clarify it for me! I've seen a few people say "pegula only cares about money, not winning cups".. Those 2 obviously go hand in hand. win a cup, more fans, more money!! that's the way it goes

Edited February 3, 2016 by NHLBUFF

[That Aud Smell]

I have reading this entire thread since it started. I just don't get it! I find it amazing how many people rush to defend PA. LGR4GMs post was bang on. I thought all of your posts, SDS, were well thought out, and made perfect sense.

 

Well okay then.

 

Is the point in the OP like The Dress? Some people see one thing, others another?

 

I wonder whether loving the presence of fans of a rival opponent in your building presages other changes to come.

 

I don't know anything. I just wonder.

[NHLBUFF]

Well okay then.

Is the point in the OP like The Dress? Some people see one thing, others another?

I wonder whether loving the presence of fans of a rival opponent in your building presages other changes to come.

I don't know anything. I just wonder.

Try to look at it from a business perspective! People in seats=good

Empty seats=bad

Everything else is basically an irrelevent discussion. When they start turning away sabres fans, or selling out of area first. then this becomes a story. however is the arena is 99% full, and 98.9% are leaf fans, it's still not an issue. has to be a sellout crowd for this to even begin to matter

I mean you're not selling out! Who cares if the guy going to the game is just there for a hotdog, to cheer the opposing team, or to sit in his seat and play pocket pool. he's doing more for the local economy and the team then most of its actual fans. that's where the problem lies. the fans don't have the loyalty. Leafs havent won a cup since Buffalo has been in the league, but they always sell out!

 

Maybe the article is to challenge the locals!!

Hey you don't want to come out and support the team? well I know a bunch of crazy canucks who will take those tickets.

Just for the record. I know most of you guys even though you don't know me. long time lurker. But a few pages up thread I asked PA a question directly relevant to the thread. he viewed my profile but never answered! Why? Because it shot down his "theory" and he didn't want that. I have enjoyed many of your posts PA. but like I said before, i think, to a lot of posters you've lost some credability with all this

[Claude_Verret]

IMO this was never about stifling or censorship, but rather the frequency of a largely tiresome crusade, and the subsequent bombs thrown to keep the fire stoked.

 

To put it another way,IMO PA's ownership and front office watchdog persona is the "ying" to the poster who defends everything the team does no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary "yang". I don't think such a yang poster exists in our community, but if he did it would be equally as tiresome.

[That Aud Smell]

Try to look at it from a business perspective!

I understand all of that.

 

I'm not sure those who are saying that there's nothing to talk about here understand what others are seeing or saying.

[Weave]

I was ready to just call it a day regarding this situation, but I would like to riff off this if I may...

 

When I first read the original post, I was fairly disgusted at the sight of yet another smear campaign being launched by the OP. Despite the wailings of the uninformed, I did what I do 99.9% of time - I ignored it. I did not intervene, comment, warn nor perform any action. I then checked back and saw LGR4GM's post. My level of disgust grew because he was baited into that reply. Again, I chose to ignore the thread because after years of this, after you tolerate it for so long, your instinct is just to tolerate more. I did not intervene, comment, warn nor perform any action. In fact, no moderator stepped in. Heavy-handed indeed!  :rolleyes: (I later learned that LGR4GM decided to step away from the board. I'm sensing a theme here...)

 

Later that evening, a member sent in an official complaint. That's normally when we step in - when someone asks us to (oh, the oppression...). While it was clear LGR4GM's comments were not worded according to community standards, it was also clear that the original post was meant to inflame. Stanley cup being flushed down the toilet? Games to be played in Hamilton? Gratuitous pot shots at the "fanatic superfan" owner? All over a single sentence? NONE of that verbiage was necessary to strike up a conversation about opposing teams fans in the building. NONE. Whatever legitimate discussion point the OP was attempting to make was drowned out in inflammatory rhetoric. 

 

So, a warning was issued to both parties... and I'll stand behind that 100%. And no, I don't care to hear anyone's rebuttal regarding this. Not your circus.

 

No one was banned, no posts removed (LGR4GM deleted his own post). Just a simple request to stop being an asshat. My word, not chz's.

 

Instead of the OP discussing this in private (or give enough time to discuss it in private... you know, like a responsible person confused by the situation would do), it was decided that his PRIVATE warning should IMMEDIATELY be the start of a PUBLIC spectacle. You know, the kind of spectacle we all enjoyed last December when he took it upon himself to announce GDD's departure.

 

And that was my match meet gasoline moment. This is where the OP continually raises his middle finger to me and the other volunteers. It was a bush league, divisive, dick move that accomplished nothing constructive. He posted that to create chaos and chaos is what we all got. <slow clap... George Bush - Mission Accomplished>

 

That's the moment when I decided speak up. That's a deliberate disruption of the community. Moderators should have the ability to contact people in private and work out issues without the Mean Girls' drama. We are not the enemy and we will not be treated as such.

 

And there is your timeline for anyone still harboring the notion that opinion is being stifled and moderation is heavy-handed or wondering why this thread became a lightning rod.

 

Easily 98% of all members that have came through the doors of TBD or SS have never had a post deleted or have been warned by a moderator. Participating conflict free in my communities comes with a giant red EASY button. How hard can it possibly be? The amount of work you need to do to overcome my desire to avoid conflict is immense. I would say 2% of the members command 98% of our attention. Well over 5 million posts have passed through our communities. Just a little perspective...

 

Let's not pretend that Liger isn't prone to over the top reaction to strongly defended opposing opinions.  This was far from his first irrational reaction to an opinion he disagreed with.  He's not some sort of bellweather of rational poster making irrational decisions because of PA's posts.  

[That Aud Smell]

^

 

Hear, hear.

[SDS]

PA did include some hyperbole in his OP. I'm generally willing to separate wheat from chaff to get to an interesting point of discussion.

10 years down the road and I would contend there is some selection bias here. Those of us who remain have been willing to tolerate that hyperbole, ignore the calls to fire the national anthem anthem singer, ignore the complaints of what row Terry Pegula sat in when he watched his first game.

 

Although I should not be counted in that because over the years I have disappeared for long stretches. Why? Because like many before me who logged off and never came back I could not stand to read another day of team storm cloud. However, I keep coming back because I actually pay the bills.

 

I have been doing this for 18 years and I have met hundreds of members. Granted, most of those have been on the Bills side. I will tell you that the number one reason people tell me why they stop visiting a message board is that they can no longer stand the negativity. Anecdotal? Yes. But it completely jives with my own personal experience.

[That Aud Smell]

That's interesting perspective, from someone who actually knows something about running an internet message board.

 

There are some who leave because of the negativity. How many stay to join issue with it?

 

And where would a board's culture be without its persistent cynics? More pleasant. More palatable. But does that mean more regular posters? Maybe it does. I'm not sure.

Edited February 3, 2016 by That Aud Smell

[SwampD]

So you start a message board, and a short time later the Bills begin the longest active playoff drought in the NFL?

 

Time to shut it down. :lol:

 

 

 

As to the negativity, that's just the nature of sports. I hang out with mostly Rangers and Giants fans, this place is sunshine and kittens compared to the way they talk. I've visited other teams' boards in a couple of different sports. This place is no more or less negative than any of those sites. Kinda makes me wonder why any of us watch sports in the first place. And at least we're civil, for the most part. Liger's outburst seems to be the norm on some of those boards.

 

My problem with this whole thing boils down to this. Someone once wrote on here (I think it was We've) "attack the post not the poster." Whenever PA posts something that people don't like, they don't join the discussion and tell him why he is wrong. They immediately attack him and say he's an idiot with an agenda.

 

The irony, though, is that the people attacking him are just as responsible for these threads gaining strength as he is. If they really do think he is an idiot with an agenda, then why respond? Why even click on the thread? I didn't have one post in the Pat Kane thread. Just let it go and the thread disappears into the ether.

 

There could have been a good discussion about the thread, but people were too busy telling us why the were superior to PA to talk about the subject.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I counsel for restraint. This reaction seems immoderate.

 

Or, at least, out of proportion.

 

 

I agree. NS should stay.

 

I'm half thinking Smell meant SDS, but in case he did mean my reaction ... I just needed to bow out before I went all Liger, although that's not my style, on SDS.

[PASabreFan]

     1) oh please

 

2) since when are pm's something you bring up in regular chat? Want me to pull up some pm's from previous years pa?

2.) I'd have no problem with that. Except the truck stop one. That was clearly a joke.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I agree, if you don't like a post attack it, but never the poster.

 

And, what if Gilbert and the articles author are lying?  What are they going to say in a discussion about it ... yup, you got us ... Sabre management and the owner ...

 

There may be nothing here, but the optics of the article stink, at least to me and some others.  Feel free to disagree, but don't deny our feelings on the matter.  And don't attack us for it.

[Claude_Verret]

I agree, if you don't like a post attack it, but never the poster.

 

And, what if Gilbert and the articles author are lying? What are they going to say in a discussion about it ... yup, you got us ... Sabre management and the owner ...

 

There may be nothing here, but the optics of the article stink, at least to me and some others. Feel free to disagree, but don't deny our feelings on the matter. And don't attack us for it.

You don't have a history of finding the eureka moment in the mundane. Others do.