WildCard Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 So do I need to raise my pitchfork or not? I would move him happily. I don't see him fitting in long term with so many small guys here. I agree with both of your comments here so if he's going it really does have to be something we are really looking to be better at long term. LHD? Yes, move him if the LHD fits the bill. Move him for the sake of moving him? Hell no. Let him figure it out. If you move Ennis it's not for a LHD, it's for another forward. Odds are, you package Ennis+ for either a forward and a 4-6 LHD, where the + is dependent on how good the returning forward is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Complementary is the right word. But complementary to whom? Sure, it's a valid question. If he doesn't fit with the core pieces on our roster, then he doesn't fit and we should move him because of it. But just because he's not a Kings-type player isn't a particularly strong reason to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 The more I hear it the more I think "playing heavy" is just code for "not talented enough." Tampa and Chicago played for the Cup last year and they're two of the smallest most finesse teams in the league. I think you may be right. Playing heavy sounds like you don't have enough offensive talent so you rely on big, fast forwards who are great on the boards and forecheck, just grinding down the other team while your shutdown goalie and 1 HOF d-man handles their forwards. I mean, does that sound familiar to teams we usually attribute that to? Kings - Doughty, Quick, Bruins - Chara, Rask / Chara, Thomas Sure, LA has Kopitar, an aging Gaborik who was on fire that Cup run, and.....Toffoli? And the Bruins had who? Bergeron, Krecji....Marchand? There really wasn't a ton of offensive skill on either of those teams, but it worked very well for both teams. We don't have the need nor the personnel to implement that style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Sure, it's a valid question. If he doesn't fit with the core pieces on our roster, then he doesn't fit and we should move him because of it. But just because he's not a Kings-type player isn't a particularly strong reason to move on. I was sorta just throwing that Kings comment out there for the hell of it. I agree with the assessment that it's not what Murray is building. But I do think there's a problem with where Ennis fits on this roster. I'm having a hard time figuring out who he belongs with. I think I'd rather have Nick Baptiste here than Ennis. I think he's a better fit on the 3rd line if that's where Ennis is going to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I think you may be right. Playing heavy sounds like you don't have enough offensive talent so you rely on big, fast forwards who are great on the boards and forecheck, just grinding down the other team while your shutdown goalie and 1 HOF d-man handles their forwards. I mean, does that sound familiar to teams we usually attribute that to? Kings - Doughty, Quick, Bruins - Chara, Rask / Chara, Thomas Sure, LA has Kopitar, an aging Gaborik who was on fire that Cup run, and.....Toffoli? And the Bruins had who? Bergeron, Krecji....Marchand? There really wasn't a ton of offensive skill on either of those teams, but it worked very well for both teams. We don't have the need nor the personnel to implement that style. Well said. I was sorta just throwing that Kings comment out there for the hell of it. I agree with the assessment that it's not what Murray is building. But I do think there's a problem with where Ennis fits on this roster. I'm having a hard time figuring out who he belongs with. I think I'd rather have Nick Baptiste here than Ennis. I think he's a better fit on the 3rd line if that's where Ennis is going to be. You've reached the point in the night where you either put the beer down, or chug 3 more and pass out :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Well said. You've reached the point in the night where you either put the beer down, or chug 3 more and pass out :P I didn't have time to go to the gym today and I'm cranky. I did have a beer though. I'm still cranky. But I'm not taking it back. :flirt: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I was sorta just throwing that Kings comment out there for the hell of it. I agree with the assessment that it's not what Murray is building. But I do think there's a problem with where Ennis fits on this roster. I'm having a hard time figuring out who he belongs with. I think I'd rather have Nick Baptiste here than Ennis. I think he's a better fit on the 3rd line if that's where Ennis is going to be. I think Bailey and Baptiste are a year or two away. Carrier may be the next in line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stads Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Is Ennis too used to being "the guy" that he doesn't understand how to be a complimentary player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubkev Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Is Ennis too used to being "the guy" that he doesn't understand how to be a complimentary player? This isn't even wrong....... But it's just so goddamn depressing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I heard this thread appear while I was taking apart a laptop. I hope Murray finds a partner to trade with while Ennis has stock. We've been on this merry-go-round too many times, and to the people who say Ennis is slumping, I say NO. This is Ennis. He's never been consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I heard this thread appear while I was taking apart a laptop. I hope Murray finds a partner to trade with while Ennis has stock. We've been on this merry-go-round too many times, and to the people who say Ennis is slumping, I say NO. This is Ennis. He's never been consistent. Such is life with complementary scorers, no? I can't think of any off the top of my head who really would get a point close to every other game over the course of a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 TrueBlueGED, on 20 Nov 2015 - 12:25 AM, said:Such is life with complementary scorers, no? I can't think of any off the top of my head who really would get a point close to every other game over the course of a season. I reckon so. That means we start looking at other things, like plus/minus and whatever fun fancy stats that apply. I'm becoming scared at the trend that I am noticing in my complaints about the players: they're really complaints about coaching. I think Ennis, as a complementary player, is being used in situations he has no business being in, and seems to have too much value to the coaching staff than he has actually earned via game-play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I reckon so. That means we start looking at other things, like plus/minus and whatever fun fancy stats that apply. I'm becoming scared at the trend that I am noticing in my complaints about the players: they're really complaints about coaching. I think Ennis, as a complementary player, is being used in situations he has no business being in, and seems to have too much value to the coaching staff than he has actually earned via game-play.Until Eichel and Reinhart become what they're supposed to, every other scoring forward besides Kane and ROR is a complementary player, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Until Eichel and Reinhart become what they're supposed to, every other scoring forward besides Kane and ROR is a complementary player, no? I think that's probably right, and why this team is in such a weird spot to me. On the one hand, they're playing well for the most part and hanging with some of the West's best, which is more than I expected. And there's where the frustration sets in. If we were getting clearly out-classed, it wouldn't be fun, but I feel like it'd be less frustrating. But it's like we're so close to winning these things, yet at the same time I think (for me, at least) there is that deep realization that until Eichel and Reinhart mature, this is what we're likely to get more often than not (with flashes of something better when they hit the high points in the roller coaster of development). So close, yet so far. At any rate, I do look forward to November being over and facing teams that our general competitiveness will translate into close wins rather than close losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) The year Samson has on Jack Jack is palpable. Of all the players, Reinhart is making strides each and every game. I think the future looks bright, but I agree with how TBPhD has position the response elicited by these games; it's frustrating because they're so right there. It seems all it would take would be a couple of good decisions per game rather than the couple of poor decisions we're seeing. And that responsibility is spread among the coaches and the players. And Murray, too, for not trading Ennis. Edited November 20, 2015 by SiZzlEmeIsTEr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) I think that's probably right, and why this team is in such a weird spot to me. On the one hand, they're playing well for the most part and hanging with some of the West's best, which is more than I expected. And there's where the frustration sets in. If we were getting clearly out-classed, it wouldn't be fun, but I feel like it'd be less frustrating. But it's like we're so close to winning these things, yet at the same time I think (for me, at least) there is that deep realization that until Eichel and Reinhart mature, this is what we're likely to get more often than not (with flashes of something better when they hit the high points in the roller coaster of development). So close, yet so far. At any rate, I do look forward to November being over and facing teams that our general competitiveness will translate into close wins rather than close losses. Good post, this is exactly how I feel. I came into this year just ready to enjoy the season, not expecting anything other than a few flashes and some development. I told myself, you aren't going to get angry and frustrated! And then, lo and behold! Our defense is holding up better than expected! We are creating lots of chances, even outshooting good teams regularly. What's this I feel brewing within? ....Frustration. We could be winning! As a fan, I have to make a renewed, conscious effort to realize these close losses are to be expected, and part of the process. As our players grow and mature and improve, they will learn how to win games. We are better than expected thus far, but my (reasonable, I think) goal coming into the season was to be a .500 hockey team. We are right about that, right now, and I think we can achieve and maintain that as the season goes on. Can hope for better, sure, but can't expect more. Edited November 20, 2015 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Good post, this is exactly how I feel. I came into this year just ready to enjoy the season, not expecting anything other than a few flashes and some development. I told myself, you aren't going to get angry and frustrated! And then, lo and behold! Our defense is holding up better than expected! We are creating lots of chances, even outshooting good teams regularly. What's this I feel brewing within? ....Frustration. We could be winning! As a fan, I have to make a renewed, conscious effort to realize these close losses are to be expected, and part of the process. As our players grow and mature and improve, they will learn how to win games. We are better than expected thus far, but my (reasonable, I think) goal coming into the season was to be a .500 hockey team. We are right about that, right now, and I think we can achieve and maintain that as the season goes on. Can hope for better, sure, but can't expect more. Exactly. I'm as frustrated as the next guy that we've had so many games slip through the cracks. I even made a comment earlier about my frustration with Ennis. Then I sit back and remember what this season is supposed to be about. Most of these guys didn't even know each other coming into training camp. Entirely new staff, completely revamped roster, several players that will most likely be the core going forward. The goal is to let these guys gel and get familiar with each other and the coach, play the season out and assess during the off season. No way should there be any trades and/or massive lineup changes at this point. Ennis is working on his 4th coach and has probably had more teammates than a 12 year veteran. The enjoyable part of this season was supposed to be about watching them progress and see how they adapt to each other. No way can I support getting rid of anybody at this point in time. If by some chance Ennis doesn't come through late in the season like he always does, and he doesn't fit Goober's system then work on a move during the off season. His worth won't be any different than it is now. What Ennis does bring to the table eventually more than cancels out what he doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I guess it was inevitable. You're a cold hard bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarasotaSabre Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 The more I hear it the more I think "playing heavy" is just code for "not talented enough." Tampa and Chicago played for the Cup last year and they're two of the smallest most finesse teams in the league. that's not how I read it at all; I read it as big, strong on the puck, winning possession time, and a b*tch to play against Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPre Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Getting half of it solid is always the hardest part Ha Almost spit coffee out of my mouth when reading that! Caught me off guard. Well played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Who knew Ennis would become this seasons' whipping boy? I like the kid. He's having a rough patch. I just want him to stay on#######sides. Other than that, I'm confident he'll get it figured out. I think linemates are his biggest problem. The current top 6 doesn't seem to mesh well with his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Who knew Ennis would become this seasons' whipping boy? Mike Weber being injured left a gaping hole. Posters did their best to nominate Larsson or Gionta but in the end teenie Tyler Ennis got the nod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) Who knew Ennis would become this seasons' whipping boy? I like the kid. He's having a rough patch. I just want him to stay on#######sides. Other than that, I'm confident he'll get it figured out. I think linemates are his biggest problem. The current top 6 doesn't seem to mesh well with his game. /waits for it. Edited November 20, 2015 by That Aud Smell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Leave Ennis alone, yes he is figuring out new system and jumping around lines, like him with O'Reilly imo. You guys are nuts getting on him... despite issues still is productive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Give tyler a break. He screwed his team twice with offsides in a week, he probably is a little mentally frustrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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