LGR4GM Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 If Ottawa lands Duchene they will be much improved. I still think they need 1 more guy in their top 6 to really be a decent playoff team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 still no. You can't trade any of the young defenders who have made the team off the team. IMPO. I wouldn't do it for Zemgus and McCabe -- that's too expensive. I also don't think Philly will be interested in a 2017 1st-rounder -- that's a player who's a solid 4 years from playing in the NHL. Frankly I'm not sure there's a deal that Philly would accept that I could live with. Zemgus has been disappointing this year but I'd still be reluctant to trade him for Simmonds. I'd guess Philly will want a good defenseman, but I'm only trading McCabe or Risto for a no-BS star player -- i.e. someone one or 2 notches better than Simmonds. EDIT: I'd send them Pysyk plus something else, but probably not Pysyk plus Zemgus. This is where I am. The price is too much. Any Team would be better for adding simonds but I think our team is gritty and deep up front. The hole created by losing a good young defenceman is certainly not worth the short-Term upgrade up front. Long term I'm not sure losing Zemgus makes it an upgrade up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Dreger says there have been talks between Ottawa and Colorado for Duchene, but it's "unlikely" Samic would trade him. May be using his name to start other talks. Also says teams are interested in Malcolm Subban and Zane MacIntyre from Boston. http://www.tsn.ca/dreger-report-more-on-those-duchene-trade-rumours-1.393191 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Who would you rather have on the Sabres right now. A 21 year old Jake McCabe who looks like a top 4 LHD or a 27 year old Wayne Simmonds who is a legit 25 goal scorer with grit? I am seriously asking and would be interested to hear debates from either side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Who would you rather have on the Sabres right now. A 21 year old Jake McCabe who looks like a top 4 LHD or a 27 year old Wayne Simmonds who is a legit 25 goal scorer with grit? I am seriously asking and would be interested to hear debates from either side. Straight up? Wayne Simmonds. I think you can replace McCabe, I think Simmonds is a very unique talent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 I'm more confident that Fasching, Bailey or Baptiste can turn into Wayne Simmonds (level of skill more than specific style) than I am that anybody we currently have in the system can turn into McCabe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Dreger says there have been talks between Ottawa and Colorado for Duchene, but it's "unlikely" Samic would trade him. May be using his name to start other talks. Also says teams are interested in Malcolm Subban and Zane MacIntyre from Boston. http://www.tsn.ca/dreger-report-more-on-those-duchene-trade-rumours-1.393191 The Duchene stuff seems odd to me, especially with how Dreger mentioned they've really struggled after letting Stastny and O'Reilly go. Obviously it would depend on their return, but a move even further thining them out up the middle of the ice isn't going to help. I have a hard time seeing them getting anything in return that is going to improve that situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 I like Wayne Simmonds, but I've read a lot of complaints on Flyer boards that he's basically invisible at even strength. Not sure what I'd give up to get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Wayne Simmonds is heinously overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) Straight up? Wayne Simmonds. I think you can replace McCabe, I think Simmonds is a very unique talentIn a vacuum, simmonds.On this team at this stage of its development , McCabe. But I think you like Simmonds a lot more than I do. Edited November 13, 2015 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 I certainly didn't notice him much in our games against the Flyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 The dude can play http://war-on-ice.com/WARboard.html http://ownthepuck.blogspot.ca/2015/02/horizontal-evaluative-rankings-optic.html http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=29&f1=2015_s&f2=5v5&f5=PHI&c=0+3+4+6+7+8+29+30+31+13+14+15+16+11+12+34+32+33+35+36+17+18+19+20+21+22+25+26+27+28+10+37+38+39+40+47+48+49+50+51+52+53+54+55+56+63+67+57+58+59+60+61+62+64+65+66+41+42+43+44+45+46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 I'm in the Simmonds's are harder to find than McCabes camp. Do I give up McCabe to get Simmonds? I wouldn't b!tch if that went down. But I won't advocate for it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Who would you rather have on the Sabres right now. A 21 year old Jake McCabe who looks like a top 4 LHD or a 27 year old Wayne Simmonds who is a legit 25 goal scorer with grit? I am seriously asking and would be interested to hear debates from either side. McCabe. I don't particularly care for Simmonds. I can see why people would want him, but I'm not giving up anything proposed so far for him. I just don't think the Sabres need him. This year is not the year and trying to make it "the year" will mean that next year is likely to be less of "the year". People are antsy to win now and almost at all costs. I get it.. but the patience has to be there. Weakening the already thin depth defense would be a heinous crime. Removing a top 6 forward to get Simmonds does the same thing. No thanks. The Sabres have all the bigger banging forwards they need right now and they have more in the pipeline. We don;'t know how many goals they can score because the past two years they've been on a really bad team. The Sabres have scoring on 3 lines right now. I think any trade that weakens one of them reduces the scoring change and trading a top 6 for a top 6 would be kind of pointless except to change player types and I don't think that's needed either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Trading for Simmons would be at the deadline, he is young, and he is under contract for years to come. It would not be a win now move. I get the concern over losing a already thin d-core, and you guys are right. So, we do what True suggested, and package a forward or two with picks/prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Trading for Simmons would be at the deadline, he is young, and he is under contract for years to come. It would not be a win now move. I get the concern over losing a already thin d-core, and you guys are right. So, we do what True suggested, and package a forward or two with picks/prospects. I don't think it should take much more than Ennis (on paper anyway, who knows if Philly would want him). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 At this stage with how this team is gelling, I wouldn't touch a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 I don't think it should take much more than Ennis (on paper anyway, who knows if Philly would want him). Would you rather send Ennis or Zemgus + ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Would you rather send Ennis or Zemgus + ? Neither +. I wouldn't trade for Simmonds. I don't think we need him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Would you rather send Ennis or Zemgus + ? I...don't know. Depends a lot on what the + is and what Zemgus next contract is going to look like. But I'd lean towards sending Ennis. Tough one though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 No they don't they have Provorov, Morin, Gostisbehere, and Sanheim in their immediate pipeline.I stand corrected, I forgot all about them drafting Provorov this year. Well then, Enns/Zemgus it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Honestly, if I'm flipping them someone like Girgensons (a young forward), I might try to get one of those guys back in return as well. They don't need all 4 of them, they also have Robert Hagg and Mark Alt in the AHL. Knowing the Flyers, you could probably get Gostisbehere out of there, he's the smallest and most offensively skewed of the group. They have a giant hardon for Morin and Provorov so that's not going to happen. They could also feel Hagg is expendable if you'd rather a more snarly bottom pairing guy than a wheeling and dealing Brian Campbell type IMO Simmonds > Girgensons, so I can't imagine you'd be getting Simmonds + back for Girgensons alone. I do really like the idea of trying to pry some of their d-cupboard though, I didn't know they were that stocked. I think there is a trade here that can be done, maybe in the offseason. At that point, we'll have a true measure of Girgensons and Kane's health/ability with actual centers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 McCabe. I don't particularly care for Simmonds. I can see why people would want him, but I'm not giving up anything proposed so far for him. I just don't think the Sabres need him. This year is not the year and trying to make it "the year" will mean that next year is likely to be less of "the year". People are antsy to win now and almost at all costs. I get it.. but the patience has to be there. Weakening the already thin depth defense would be a heinous crime. Removing a top 6 forward to get Simmonds does the same thing. No thanks. The Sabres have all the bigger banging forwards they need right now and they have more in the pipeline. We don;'t know how many goals they can score because the past two years they've been on a really bad team. The Sabres have scoring on 3 lines right now. I think any trade that weakens one of them reduces the scoring change and trading a top 6 for a top 6 would be kind of pointless except to change player types and I don't think that's needed either. I agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) Also, FWIW, I absolutely hate the concept of saying "Let's do something 2-3 years from now when we're ready." We've got the core here right now, every year we waste pissing around is a year of Ryan O'Reilly's prime we waste. If we can identify a player who helps us win for the next 3-4 years for a cost we can stomach you get that player and enjoy those 3-4 years. Then, when Eichel is 22-23 and O'Reilly is 27-28, and you've replaced those assets with new assets (future unmade picks and prospects) you do the same thing and get another 3-4 years out of a complimentary piece. Put it this way, if Eichel is 23, Reinhart is 24, O'Reilly is 28, and Ristolainen is 25 and we HAVEN'T been a significant factor YET we're doing something horribly wrong. Wayne Simmonds may not be that guy, I'm fine with that. I threw his name out there because his team is about to implode. However, if another guy who fits that description of helping us win for the next 3-4 years at a reasonable contract comes available for a reasonable price we need to do it. Girgensons may not be the guy to trade either. Like I said, I tried to think of someone who I thought Philly would be interested in. I'd rather some other guys be flipped first anyway (Foligno, Ennis, Larsson, any of the prospects) it's not really when we're ready, it's more like when we know what we've got. I might agree with you if I thought Simmonds was O'Reilly II, or if I thought McCabe and Zemgus were the equivalent of Armia, Lemieux and a late first, ie three intirguing pieces who might never amount to aything.. Edited November 14, 2015 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 I wouldn't want to give up an asset now unless the player coming back is expected to be a contributing part of the team for the next 4 years or so. I think McCabe is a keeper for that period, so, it's going to have to be a forward if the trade has to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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