Trade ideas and speculation

[dudacek]

Sharp — acquired from Philly in a one-for-one deal for Mat Ellison.

Those are the kinds of deals that win you cups.

[Hoss]

I think ThirtyEight was talking about Kessel.

I would do that deal but it wouldn't get it done.

 

On the reported asking price for Sharp - I doubt it's accurate. I'm sure they're asking high so they can come down later, but I have a hard time believing anything from TFP.

[LGR4GM]

Larsson, Carrier and 21st. Would people pay that?

Try Grigorenko, Ennis/Zemgus (whichever they prefer) 21st and you might be kinda in the conversation. Probably would have to toss Zadorov or Pysyk or McCabe in to get Kessel.  

 

I don't want Kessell or Sharp, it isn't the right time to trade young players for either of them.

[#freejame]

They won't get all they ask for, as that is absurd. However, I think they could be bargained down to the equivalent of 21st, Grigo, Larsson and maybe something extra (like a Carrier). They wanted a top prospect - that is Grigo, despite his horrible player management/development. Grigo for them would be high risk/high reward, but if he worked out they might be trading a Sharp for 50 points + player and others. They wanted a first, and this gives them that - they won't get much higher really - want top 15 team wants an ageing star? They wanted a young top 6 player - they don't quite get this. But they do get a young third line player, who will probably develop into a player that can swing into the top 6 if needed. Maybe you add a prospect that hasn't done much like Carrier to sweeten the deal

Are we not talking about Kessel?

[Weave]

Try Grigorenko, Ennis/Zemgus (whichever they prefer) 21st and you might be kinda in the conversation. Probably would have to toss Zadorov or Pysyk or McCabe in to get Kessel.  

 

I don't want Kessell or Sharp, it isn't the right time to trade young players for either of them.

 

 

Kessel is 27.  he's on the edge of being the right age for this team.

[nfreeman]

Larsson, Carrier and 21st. Would people pay that?

For Kessel?

 

Yes.

[dudacek]

One team out there trying to create some cap room is the Wild.

Chuck Fletcher is Tim Murray's BFF.

 

Jared Spurgeon is a puck-moving D who might make sense as a target.

Maybe we sweeten by agreeing to pick up Backstroms bad contract.

[Bob Malooga]

The real reason Rochester might need a starter is because Ullmark had surgery. If not we wouldn't need to worry. Also I think Makarov will end up being the starter.

 

We need someone better in Rochester, Makarov is not the future goalie with the organization, and nobody knows how Ullmark recovers. Murray said he wanted to find one.

Gibson for Rochester?  I'd be shocked if he wasn't full-time with Anaheim next season...maybe even their #1.

Anderson is like 25 and just took them deep into the playoffs. Many, many outlets have said Gibson could be available. I'll take him for OUR #1, but I still think we need a veteran.

[LGR4GM]

We need someone better in Rochester, Makarov is not the future goalie with the organization, and nobody knows how Ullmark recovers. Murray said he wanted to find one.

Ullmark, will be fine.

[nfreeman]

Ullmark, will be fine.

 

Surgery on both hips, with a 6-month recovery period, seems like a pretty serious matter -- the kind of thing a goalie might never recover from.

 

I'd like to know why it wasn't performed in the US.

[Brawndo]

Surgery on both hips, with a 6-month recovery period, seems like a pretty serious matter -- the kind of thing a goalie might never recover from.

 

I'd like to know why it wasn't performed in the US.

Healthcare is cheaper in Europe.

[Hoss]

One team out there trying to create some cap room is the Wild.

Chuck Fletcher is Tim Murray's BFF.

 

Jared Spurgeon is a puck-moving D who might make sense as a target.

Maybe we sweeten by agreeing to pick up Backstroms bad contract.

Spurgeon will have real value in a trade. They'll likely target a good center for him. I know some have floated the idea of Spurgeon for Yakupov. I don't think they'll just pair him with a bad contract and send him on his way.

[thesportsbuff]

Kessel is 27.  he's on the edge of being the right age for this team.

 

ty for someone finally saying that. 

[dudacek]

Spurgeon will have real value in a trade. They'll likely target a good center for him. I know some have floated the idea of Spurgeon for Yakupov. I don't think they'll just pair him with a bad contract and send him on his way.

 

Oh, I wasn't suggesting otherwise.

He's good player, 25 and might be available —  the type of player that they'd probably ask for pick 21 for, although I'm not sure they'd get it.

 

Sekera went for an early second and McBain. Spurgeon is in a similar place in his career.

Maybe Spurgeon and Backstrom for 31?

[deluca67]

@BDGallof: Per NHL source, CHI currently asking for 1st rd pick, A-level prospect & top 6 forward on entry-level contract for Patrick Sharp #isles

 

Good luck with that.

What? No toilet made of gold? 

 

I can't imagine that any team would even come close to paying that price form Sharp. My best offer would still be a conditional mid-round pick and that's it. 

For Kessel?

 

Yes.

I'd give up pick #31 and would prefer to switch out one of the two players for Grigorenko. 

[LGR4GM]

Surgery on both hips, with a 6-month recovery period, seems like a pretty serious matter -- the kind of thing a goalie might never recover from.

 

I'd like to know why it wasn't performed in the US.

 

 

Healthcare is cheaper in Europe.

Healthcare in Europe is better.  The health outcomes in the US for major surgeries are equivalent or less than those in Europe.  Since he lives in Europe I see no reason why he wouldn't get the surgery there when it was probably just as good if not better than US surgery.

I feel bad, I have been a little harsh on the US.  I love my country, just think we could be better and we need to strive to be better.  

[LabattBlue]

I say no to Kessel regardless of price.  Isn't it a major red flag that a guy of his talent is on the market and heading for his 3rd NHL team at the age of 27?

[TrueBlueGED]

Kessel is 27. he's on the edge of being the right age for this team.

I think there would be more interest if he provided anything other than offense. Given that offense is the first thing to go as players age, and he'll be 30 when this team is hitting its prime, I think he's just outside the range we should be looking for. When this team is a yearly contender I think he'll be more of a 30-30, guy than a 40-40 guy, which makes his salary far less attractive. I like Kessel more than many around here, and I could absolutely get on board with adding him in the right deal, but I have a hard time believing a palatable package of assets and salary retention would get it done for Toronto. Larsson, McCabe, Grigorenko, 1st and $2 million salary retention? Sign me up. But I think they'll be looking for a prime piece and won't want to retain significant salary, which are things I'm not willing to do because of his age and one dimensional play.

[nfreeman]

Healthcare in Europe is better.  The health outcomes in the US for major surgeries are equivalent or less than those in Europe.  Since he lives in Europe I see no reason why he wouldn't get the surgery there when it was probably just as good if not better than US surgery.

I feel bad, I have been a little harsh on the US.  I love my country, just think we could be better and we need to strive to be better.  

 

This is not even close to being accurate.  Some countries in Europe do a good job in providing basic healthcare to a higher percentage of the population than we do (although many -- like the UK for example -- do not), but the advanced/complex stuff is far superior here.  There's a reason those who can afford it come here when they get sick.

 

I'd give up pick #31 and would prefer to switch out one of the two players for Grigorenko. 

 

Who wouldn't prefer that?  But Toronto isn't letting Kessel go without getting a much better package than the one I signed up for, let alone the watered-down version you are proposing.

 

I think there would be more interest if he provided anything other than offense. Given that offense is the first thing to go as players age, and he'll be 30 when this team is hitting its prime, I think he's just outside the range we should be looking for. When this team is a yearly contender I think he'll be more of a 30-30, guy than a 40-40 guy, which makes his salary far less attractive. I like Kessel more than many around here, and I could absolutely get on board with adding him in the right deal, but I have a hard time believing a palatable package of assets and salary retention would get it done for Toronto. Larsson, McCabe, Grigorenko, 1st and $2 million salary retention? Sign me up. But I think they'll be looking for a prime piece and won't want to retain significant salary, which are things I'm not willing to do because of his age and one dimensional play.

 

I agree with this, although I would live without the salary retention (and I think anyone who thinks Toronto will give that up is kidding himself). 

 

I also think Toronto wouldn't be interested in the package you proposed, even without the salary retention.  The Sabres would need to include Risto or Reinhart to get Kessel.

[Thorny]

This is not even close to being accurate.  Some countries in Europe do a good job in providing basic healthcare to a higher percentage of the population than we do (although many -- like the UK for example -- do not), but the advanced/complex stuff is far superior here.  There's a reason those who can afford it come here when they get sick.

 

 

Who wouldn't prefer that?  But Toronto isn't letting Kessel go without getting a much better package than the one I signed up for, let alone the watered-down version you are proposing.

 

 

I agree with this, although I would live without the salary retention (and I think anyone who thinks Toronto will give that up is kidding himself). 

 

I also think Toronto wouldn't be interested in the package you proposed, even without the salary retention.  The Sabres would need to include Risto or Reinhart to get Kessel.

 

I agree that this is most likely the case. I would love to add Phil, but I don't think anyone is going to be okay with including one of those two players in the deal.

 

For me, I'm not including Reinhart or Ristolainen in any deal (not implying that you would), unless a player with a similar ceiling, and of the same age, is coming back. Adding a nearing-age-30 veteran, albeit a proven one, just doesn't make sense if the price is our future second line center or top pairing D.

 

The only type of trade that really makes sense for a guy like Reinhart would be a hockey trade for someone like Drouin. And those types of trades don't usually happen.

 

In my view this team has 3 "untouchables": Eichel, Reinhart, and Ristolainen.

[nfreeman]

I agree that this is most likely the case. I would love to add Phil, but I don't think anyone is going to be okay with including one of those two players in the deal.

 

For me, I'm not including Reinhart or Ristolainen in any deal (not implying that you would), unless a player with a similar ceiling, and of the same age, is coming back. Adding a nearing-age-30 veteran, albeit a proven one, just doesn't make sense if the price is our future second line center or top pairing D.

 

The only type of trade that really makes sense for a guy like Reinhart would be a hockey trade for someone like Drouin. And those types of trades don't usually happen.

 

I agree with all of this.

[deluca67]

This is not even close to being accurate.  Some countries in Europe do a good job in providing basic healthcare to a higher percentage of the population than we do (although many -- like the UK for example -- do not), but the advanced/complex stuff is far superior here.  There's a reason those who can afford it come here when they get sick.

 

 

Who wouldn't prefer that?  But Toronto isn't letting Kessel go without getting a much better package than the one I signed up for, let alone the watered-down version you are proposing.

 

 

I agree with this, although I would live without the salary retention (and I think anyone who thinks Toronto will give that up is kidding himself). 

 

I also think Toronto wouldn't be interested in the package you proposed, even without the salary retention.  The Sabres would need to include Risto or Reinhart to get Kessel.

I am very interested in seeing what the Leafs can get for Kessel. He is a great offensive player, that contract is a monster. 

[Thorny]

I am very interested in seeing what the Leafs can get for Kessel. He is a great offensive player, that contract is a monster. 

 

Agreed. Also, I really think that the big contract isn't even the biggest deterrent in play here. A player of his caliber, at his relatively young age, should fetch a pretty massive package in return. The only reason there is this sort-of idea that Kessel could possibly be had for less than one might think is because of his conditioning I think. It is no secret that Phil doesn't keep himself in the best shape, perhaps this accelerates his eventual decline.

 

Having said that, that worry isn't going to matter to a team or teams. The return the Leafs get will be huge, if they deal him. Not worth it for us at the speculated price, for where we are at. But I can't wait to see what the eventual price is.

[WildCard]

No it isn't.  Most European countries are on par with the United States and several are better. Far superior?  That's a crock of ######. 

Not sure about the quality, but I do know it takes forever for minor ailments (i.e. broken ribs) to be even diagnosed; I'm talking a 1 year waiting time to get the x-ray and then another 5 months for a diagnoses. 

[bunomatic]

Not sure about the quality, but I do know it takes forever for minor ailments (i.e. broken ribs) to be even diagnosed; I'm talking a 1 year waiting time to get the x-ray and then another 5 months for a diagnoses. 

Whoa. Where ?