Thorny Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) Right. I really like the fit here. His strengths are what we lack, and playing with Risto can help with his weaknesses. But if they're demanding #8, I'm still gunshy and looking at other options. I wouldn't be thrilled with giving up 8 either. But if we can get that deal done without it, for a combination of some of the pieces bring floated about around here, it'll be an absolute triumph to add Fowler to this team. Short of giving up 8, there aren't compelling arguments to not add this guy. He's probably the best option right now, and will be our first pairing LHD. Edited June 24, 2016 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I wouldn't be thrilled with giving up 8 either. But if we can get that deal done without it, for a combination of some of the pieces bring floated about around here, it'll be an absolute triumph to add Fowler to this team. Short of giving up 8, there aren't compelling arguments to not add this guy. He's probably the best option right now, and will be our first pairing LHD. I continue to be enamored with a series of transactions that net us Shattenkirk and Brodin...but I do recognize that such a series of moves does not happen outside of a videogame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 My guess is if you flipped their usage, Fowler would look better than Bogo does and Bogo would look worse than Fowler does. Aside from that, the things Fowler is good at I think are more valuable than the things Bogosian is good at. Absolutely, just not for the 8th pick as you mentioned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I continue to be enamored with a series of transactions that net us Shattenkirk and Brodin...but I do recognize that such a series of moves does not happen outside of a videogame. I wish. So.....does anyone doubt we are waking up tomorrow to a #8 for Fowler deal? :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Girgensons, Ennis and Foligno are all lefties. They can have two of them plus a second if that's what they want. It'll really depend on what they're interested in. I hope you're right, and I would send them Zemgus and Foligno (and a #2 pick if needed) for Fowler, and I think GMTM would too. I think Ennis would be Anaheim's least preferred member of the group due to concussion and contract. I have to totally disagree with all of your Cam Fowler assessment. The guy has played the most minutes on a team that got to game 7 of the WCFs and allowed the fewest goals this year. His possession stats and those garbage player comparison charts don't tell half of the story. He gets something like 44% offensive zone starts, and lugs around Bieksa and the Ducks' shutdown forwards in a shutdown role. He is one of the best defensemen in the league at moving the puck out of the defensive zone, and is probably a top 5 skater in the world, in terms of defensemen. His positioning and stickwork are good-to-great, he just doesn't wow with physical presence or highlight reel offense. He is by far the best realistic option, IMO, for fixing the Sabres' biggest problem (getting the nod over Shattenkirk because of his handedness.) He's 24. Dumba doesn't sniff his jock, and I'd bet that 2 of the 3 defensemen people want to pick don't ever become as good as Fowler already is. Good post. I kinda think GMTM is going to reel him in and this got me pretty psyched. I continue to be enamored with a series of transactions that net us Shattenkirk and Brodin...but I do recognize that such a series of moves does not happen outside of a videogame. I'd rather have Fowler than Shatty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) I think Fowler is like Bogosian and Myers before him: good enough that their coaches give them a ton of minutes in a role that gets them a lot of notice, playing a position bound to draw more attention to their failures than their successes. Fowler is not flashy enough to please the skill guys, gritty enough to satisfy the blood and guts guys, or safe enough to placate the cerebral guys. He's not elite, he's just good, good enough that he would instantly be the second best defenceman on the team, with the skill set most lacking on our blueline. He's a great fit. Of the players available without trading a core player, or pick eight, he's the best fit. Its 50/50 the guy we take at eight is better than him. Certainly he helps our team more for the next three or four years - probably more if our pick at eight is a defenceman. And that is something Murray has to be considering. I might trade eight for him if we got something else back, but it's not something I'd want to do. And that may be exactly where Murray is at right now too, making that decision. Edited June 24, 2016 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I'd rather have Fowler than Shatty. Is this just based on LHD or something more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Tonight has been an interesting exercise in obsessing over Internet postings from speculators and people claiming to be in the know. The most credible-seeming of the latter is that its not about eight, it's Girgensons for Fowler, with Buffalo adding something that's not as good as Zemgus. Tim does not run particularly tight ship and given the fact the draft is in Buffalo, I wouldnt be surprised if a few tidbits are legitimate. But my god, there is a lot of ridiculous crap out there that really makes me appreciate this space. But it also has been educational trying to figure out if there are a few worthwhile nuggets in the vast wasteland. And I'll be able to draw some conclusions tomorrow, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I hope you're right, and I would send them Zemgus and Foligno (and a #2 pick if needed) for Fowler, and I think GMTM would too. I think Ennis would be Anaheim's least preferred member of the group due to concussion and contract. Good post. I kinda think GMTM is going to reel him in and this got me pretty psyched. I'd rather have Fowler than Shatty. I would prefer Fowler as well. He is three years younger which fits the Sabres timeline a little better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Dreger tweets Montreal wants Fowler bad, might come down to which of the Habs or Buffalo gives up their first. If that's not a late Bob Murray attempt to squeeze something extra, I don't know what is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrassValleyGreg Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) FWIW, although not a common poster, the one argument I’ve repeated is that Fowler is overrated by many on this board. I watch Ducks games (live in LA) and have paid particular attention to Cam this year, particularly after rumors had it that he was a target of Murray. I mostly agree with the article posted by 3putt. He will be a strength and nice addition to our PP and it’s easy to imagine him and Eich easily gaining the zone with their speed. But the concerns about his mental lapses on D are real. And his shot is soft. We will be getting a dynamic, pass-first defenseman who will likely frustrate in his own end (don't want to say it but a less awkward Myers, who I am a fan of). It will be tolerable with his current contract, but not sure if the fan base could stomach much more. I also agree with dudacek’s scarcity argument among top defensemen in the league. In the end, I have faith in Murray. If he feels Fowler can mesh with Risto and bring that dynamism to our PP (the thought of his speed and EIch’s is certainly enticing), then full speed ahead. I would be surprised (and disappointed) if he gives up the 8th. Lastly, thank you all for carrying the conversation this offseason. All high quality insight. Excited to share the night with you tomorrow (today for some). EDIT: Missed your latest two posts duda. Like always, you are dead on. Also, I don't think Shatty v. Fowler is close with Shat being the far superior offensive playmaker. Both not strong defensively, but Shatty is a difference maker and top 2 guy when paired with sound d-man. Edited June 24, 2016 by GrassValleyGreg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) Someone around the Oilers organization just confirmed to me that the Canadiens asked for Draisaitl and the 4 pick for Subban! From Georges Laraque That can't be all they get for Subban right ? sorry just catching up. :p Edited June 24, 2016 by Huckleberry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I would trade Ennis for a 2nd round pick in 2016 or 2017 and a defensemen project prospect. I am scared of his head injury and the way that he plays. While the hit that caused him to miss basically the season is not indicative of him, I just have major concerns going forward. If someone has any belief, move on. Save the cap hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Alright, let's get this show started. I'm expecting this thread to get weird today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Alright, let's get this ###### show started. I'm expecting this thread to get weird today Like death and taxes, it will get weird at some point. There's gonna be a fight, there's gonna be make up sex and there's gonna three new Sabres today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 FWIW, although not a common poster, the one argument I’ve repeated is that Fowler is overrated by many on this board. I watch Ducks games (live in LA) and have paid particular attention to Cam this year, particularly after rumors had it that he was a target of Murray. I mostly agree with the article posted by 3putt. He will be a strength and nice addition to our PP and it’s easy to imagine him and Eich easily gaining the zone with their speed. But the concerns about his mental lapses on D are real. And his shot is soft. We will be getting a dynamic, pass-first defenseman who will likely frustrate in his own end (don't want to say it but a less awkward Myers, who I am a fan of). It will be tolerable with his current contract, but not sure if the fan base could stomach much more. I also agree with dudacek’s scarcity argument among top defensemen in the league. In the end, I have faith in Murray. If he feels Fowler can mesh with Risto and bring that dynamism to our PP (the thought of his speed and EIch’s is certainly enticing), then full speed ahead. I would be surprised (and disappointed) if he gives up the 8th. Lastly, thank you all for carrying the conversation this offseason. All high quality insight. Excited to share the night with you tomorrow (today for some). EDIT: Missed your latest two posts duda. Like always, you are dead on. Also, I don't think Shatty v. Fowler is close with Shat being the far superior offensive playmaker. Both not strong defensively, but Shatty is a difference maker and top 2 guy when paired with sound d-man. Good post. I think Buffalo can draft an equivalent to Fowler at 8, so why trade 8 and more. Hope GMTM holds fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Good post. I think Buffalo can draft an equivalent to Fowler at 8, so why trade 8 and more. Hope GMTM holds fast. Exactly if the Fowler for #8 talk was true, Murray would have done the trade already. I believe he's holding for what he seems is the fair rate. I doubt he views Fowler as the perfect young LHD. This would have been done yesterday afternoon if it was a "lock". Fowler is what he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPre Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) A few teams, Montreal is one, are going for Fowler. Anaheim may get an offer that is greater than Fowler's value. Really do not want Murray to trade #8 for Fowler. Edited June 24, 2016 by GoPre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) A few teams, Montreal is one, are going for Fowler. Anaheim may get an offer that is greater than Fowler's value. Really do not want Murray to trade #8 for Fowler. Good, he can go to Montreal and they then can turn around and trade their franchise player. Watch the fans of Le Habs riot! That would be a beautiful thing. Edited June 24, 2016 by TheCerebral1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaslug Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Yakupov. Yes, No, and if so whats the price? My apologies if this is discussed elsewhere in the 124 pages lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 It was and forget who posted vid clip of the office with a Nooooooo! but No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 The Flames expect to leave Buffalo with a starting goalie. Ben Bishop and Brian Elliott the two likely names at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaslug Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 The Flames expect to leave Buffalo with a starting goalie. Ben Bishop and Brian Elliott the two likely names at this point. The Matt Murray situation looks pretty messy heading into next years expansion draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Alright, let's get this ###### show started. I'm expecting this thread to get weird today I've brought some rope, handcuffs and a ski mask :ph34r: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Yakupov. Yes, No, and if so whats the price? My apologies if this is discussed elsewhere in the 124 pages lol No unless they want a 6th or 7th round pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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