SarasotaSabre Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 I get your point, as a comparison to what Shero did. There's the un-quantifiable "chemistry" factor that we have no idea, yet, what it will be for the Sabres. Meanwhile, I think it's safe to say Shero bombed on that and was more a Regier-style manager. With regards to Bylsma, I think TBphD detailed the reasons why I had said in prior threads that Bylsma would be a Hunter S. Thompson-esque choice: there are way too many variables left unanswered with his coaching. For every positive, there seems to be a relatively equivocal negative, or at least a reasonable, albeit ignorant retort (and I don't mean stupid here, just ignorant because fans don't have all of the facts usually). He's like the first round draft pick that fell from top 5 to the mid-round because of "questions". If the variables swing more toward the positive for the Sabres, then, they hit a home-run. If the complaints are valid, well, then we may as well have re-hired Ron Rolston. good post until the Ron Rolston reference; sorry, I just don't see RR imploring his charges with "let's grind these down".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 Nope not my knowledge of Bylsma, but the game sure, I played at a high level well beyond high school, so I'm not the avg poster. What I am saying is I wouldn't get knowledge of a coach's system and in game decision making from regular posters. IIRC in that series there was an adjustmet wherein he had not only the 2 D and C come down low for D puck retrievals, he had his wingers come back more for add'l puck support during breakouts, the longer passes he liked were being gobbled up by the 2-3 trap laid by Bos. For zone entries he was having his breakout hit a forward along the boards and look to the center ice for a zig zag type pass to have the Bos D move a little before gaining the zone. After the tweaks they had a ton more chances and shots on goal, but if Malkin and Crosby can't score with 54 shots on goal, coaching isn;'t your main problem. Also Rask was a beast that year. I could point out that Andrew Peters also played well beyond high school and I wouldn't put his technical knowledge of systems above an average message board poster :p Seriously though, good stuff here :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patty16 Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 I could point out that Andrew Peters also played well beyond high school and I wouldn't put his technical knowledge of systems above an average message board poster :P Seriously though, good stuff here :thumbsup: Ha well played, but he's been around the game and I bet if you get him off to the side he can digest it pretty well. But there's an exception to every rule. I think part of the Pens fans issue is that they have Malkin and Crosby and prob feel they should be in the Cup Finals every years.... it's easiest to blame the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 I know hockeybuzz gets a bad rep but I thought this was an interesting read on why the author does not want Disco Dan as the next head coach. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Michael-Pachla/BylsmaBuffalo-inevitable/209/68890 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 Agreed. I wasn't trying to say all posters suck or anything like that. But how would one know just reading through random posts. I would postulate that 99% of Pens posters didn't know that his d zone puck retrievals were something of an oddity and were eventually copied around the league. His traditional system had the 1D go get the puck and the 2D be close by for an immediate pass. Normal retrievals have 1D get the puck and 2D skate behind the net or near the far circle for an outlet safety pass. Part of Bylsma's philosphy is to get the puck out of the zone asap so the big horses can skate with it. I agree as well, you dont accomplish those things by having one rigid system that you refuse to change at all costs. I thought he really blew it in the Olympics not bc of X's and O's as much as giving Orpik way too much ice against top lines on the big ice. He just trusted him too much. See, I think the content of the post can be a very accurate proxy for knowing if somebody sight unseen has a clue or not. I could read your outline of Bylsma's puck retrievals and reasonably assume you have a good reputation on the board. I think that assumption would be right much more often than it's wrong. I simplified for my summary, but those types of high quality posts are what I based my conclusions on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patty16 Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 I know hockeybuzz gets a bad rep but I thought this was an interesting read on why the author does not want Disco Dan as the next head coach. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Michael-Pachla/BylsmaBuffalo-inevitable/209/68890 See this blog post is the type of stuff I just don't think adds a lot of insight to the type of person craving more hockey. It's lazy analysis from a blogger who doesn't really understand what he's hearing or seeing. His system is hard so think lindy Ruff two on ones?? (not exactly but...) No kidding when almost any breakout .... breaks down.. you get odd man chances. Why doesn't the blogger say why it's hard.... and quote someone other than another blogger on that questionable site. really it's bc there are lots of snap judgments and emphasis on getting the puck up ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 You admit yourself that it's a complex system. Do you think it's best to bring in a guy with a complex system when the Sabres are going to be icing a very young team over the next few years? You obviously are an advocate for him and seem knowledgeable. I guess, I just read you tearing down other peoples opinions on why he's not a good fit than you proving your point why you think he is the best fit. Not trying to be confrontational as it's a good discussion. Could you just elaborate on why you think that's the best idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 You admit yourself that it's a complex system. Do you think it's best to bring in a guy with a complex system when the Sabres are going to be icing a very young team over the next few years? You obviously are an advocate for him and seem knowledgeable. I guess, I just read you tearing down other peoples opinions on why he's not a good fit than you proving your point why you think he is the best fit. Not trying to be confrontational as it's a good discussion. Could you just elaborate on why you think that's the best idea? But on the other hand, if it is a complex system that works wouldn't we want our kids to have familiarity in it this season before we start to really compete in 2016-17? In other words, getting the kinks out this year so they are comfortable next year and beyond? Just playing devil's advocate here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 That's a fair point but I think it's a big enough jump into the NHL as it is that I don't know if I want my Reinhart's and Eichel's learning a complex system while also getting use to the speed of the NHL etc. To me it's like putting a kid starting highschool in Grade 12 algebra because in three or four years when he's applying to universities he wants him to be a master. Maybe it works out, or maybe the kid is so lost because he hasn't learned the fundamentals that things go sideways for a couple years and the teacher (Bylsma) is gone and we're left learning a new system anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patty16 Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 You admit yourself that it's a complex system. Do you think it's best to bring in a guy with a complex system when the Sabres are going to be icing a very young team over the next few years? You obviously are an advocate for him and seem knowledgeable. I guess, I just read you tearing down other peoples opinions on why he's not a good fit than you proving your point why you think he is the best fit. Not trying to be confrontational as it's a good discussion. Could you just elaborate on why you think that's the best idea? But on the other hand, if it is a complex system that works wouldn't we want our kids to have familiarity in it this season before we start to really compete in 2016-17? In other words, getting the kinks out this year so they are comfortable next year and beyond? Just playing devil's advocate here. That's a fair point but I think it's a big enough jump into the NHL as it is that I don't know if I want my Reinhart's and Eichel's learning a complex system while also getting use to the speed of the NHL etc. To me it's like putting a kid starting highschool in Grade 12 algebra because in three or four years when he's applying to universities he wants him to be a master. Maybe it works out, or maybe the kid is so lost because he hasn't learned the fundamentals that things go sideways for a couple years and the teacher (Bylsma) is gone and we're left learning a new system anyways. I'm not necessarily advocating for him, just that the CW criticisms of him don't really hold water so to speak, he has pros and cons. I do think this team needs a veteran presence behind the bench so the kids learn from someone who has done it before (or a former NHL player) A coach's street cred in the room is a huge factor, since hockey is an effort sport. I see what you are saying tho, that was the system he saw best at that point in time with the rosters he was given, I think his system was better fitted for less skilled Dmen that were on the Pitt roster. Have you worst players get the puck to Crosby and Malkin asap. Buffalo is going to have a roster that is a little more balances and I think he could emphasize Dmen skating a little more. These are the types of things that happen in an interview. What kind of system and philosophies do you anticipate running? How you do feel about giving mins to young players? aggressive vs D oriented game planning? That's a fair point but I think it's a big enough jump into the NHL as it is that I don't know if I want my Reinhart's and Eichel's learning a complex system while also getting use to the speed of the NHL etc. To me it's like putting a kid starting highschool in Grade 12 algebra because in three or four years when he's applying to universities he wants him to be a master. Maybe it works out, or maybe the kid is so lost because he hasn't learned the fundamentals that things go sideways for a couple years and the teacher (Bylsma) is gone and we're left learning a new system anyways. It's most similar to a NFL qb, in college he knew how to make simple reads, run and throw exceptionally well, now he's asked to do that 100x faster and make more reads..... too much thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 I would like to think whoever Murray hires will have the sense to implement a system and in a process that makes sense for the development of a young roster. In fact, I'd imagine this would be a major component of the interview process. I fully expect Murray and the coach to be working off of the same organizational game plan, as opposed to what we all saw this year with Murray and Nolan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) Murray's tale of the tape (Real players, not counting UFAs who have been traded away, or draft picks acquired) In: Carrier, Fasching, Deslauriers, Gorges, Gionta, Moulson, McCormick, Kane, Bogosian, Johnson, Nevins, D'Amigo, Samuels-Thomas, Dupuy, Rodrigues Out: Ehrhoff, Leino, Flynn, Lemieux, Armia, Myers, Adam, McNabb What about draft picks traded away? :P Edited May 26, 2015 by LabattBlue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejeanneret Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) Yahoo calls Bylsma to Sabres "inevitable". http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/dan-bylsma-s-seemingly-inevitable-marriage-to-the-buffalo-sabres-125416091.html From Tom Gulitti of the Bergen Record speaking on reunion between Shero & Bylsma: https://twitter.com/TGfireandice/status/603025128050585600 Don't get carried away on the Bylsma thing. Shero talked to him already while at world championships. Things could change but don't expect Bylsma and Shero to reunite in NJ. Buffalo seems far more likely. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Would you give up a first round draft pick for Bylsma's services? Not sure about that one, but apparently that's what Penguins GM is looking to get for any team hiring Bylsma. http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2015/05/24/Penguins-GM-Jim-Rutherford-will-pursue-a-first-round-draft-pick/stories/201505240137 I don't think he'll get it, but now wondering if compensation might steer Sabres to Richardson??? Edited May 26, 2015 by dejeanneret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) Would you give up a first round draft pick for Bylsma's services? Not sure about that one, but apparently that's what Penguins GM is looking to get for any team hiring Bylsma. http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2015/05/24/Penguins-GM-Jim-Rutherford-will-pursue-a-first-round-draft-pick/stories/201505240137 I don't think he'll get it, but now wondering if compensation might steer Sabres to Richardson??? That's not what I got from that article. I got: 1) Rutherford does want a first-rounder (in general) and will be talking to teams with extra ones. 2) Buffalo is one of the teams that has an extra, so the Pens will be talking to them about it. 3) Teams do sometimes get compensation beyond just getting the salary of a fired coach off of their books when they are hired by another team. 4) If the Sabres want to hire Bylsma, then his rights may be part of a package for the Sabres' extra first-round pick. In other words, it's not that he wants a first-rounder for Bylsma rights, but rather that it could be one piece in acquiring one from Buffalo. Edited May 26, 2015 by carpandean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Was Bylsma the coach in Pittsburgh when the Pens seemingly always lost their composure any time they played teams like Philly that came at their stars aggressively ? I seem to remember seeing quite a few games where the Pens fell apart in the discipline department. Not sure if disco Dan was coaching at that time ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 That's not what I got from that article. I got: 1) Rutherford does want a first-rounder (in general) and will be talking to teams with extra ones. 2) Buffalo is one of the teams that has an extra, so the Pens will be talking to them about it. 3) Teams do sometimes get compensation beyond just getting the salary of a fired coach off of their books when they are hired by another team. 4) If the Sabres want to hire Bylsma, then his rights may be part of a package for the Sabres' extra first-round pick. In other words, it's not that he wants a first-rounder for Bylsma rights, but rather that it could be one piece in acquiring one from Buffalo. F*ck no. If they want a first round pick for Bylsma? What? That's insane. I'd rather Richardson than give up a pick for Bylsma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Continuing to generate more and more thoughts on Bylsma... One of the things I always loved about his system was that it put Crosby and Malkin in position to make plays for their sometimes mediocre linemates. Great players make their linemates better, and I think Bylsma relied on that being true. That's a good thing in my eyes. Guys like Pascal Dupuis and Chris Kunitz aren't what their statlines showed. A guy like James Neal had the talent to make plays by himself, but he was a great finisher that the stars took advantage of. He was put in the right position by Bylsma's system. Evander Kane should play a very similar role to James Neal. Talented enough to make his own plays, a good finisher and has a physical edge. To the above point about how often they folded under physical pressure: it's likely due to the lack of physical players. They didn't have many guys that were consistently physical by nature. That might sound strange, but Kunitz and Neal were guys that would get physical when push or, occasionally, in a reckless fashion that did more harm than good. A guy like Matt Cooke was inconsistent, but the more he plays under Byslma the closer he got to being the league's best penalty-killing forward. Maybe Nic Deslauriers can benefit similarly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 (edited) F*ck no. If they want a first round pick for Bylsma? What? That's insane. I'd rather Richardson than give up a pick for Bylsma.Absolutely if Babcock only worth a third there is NFW Bylsma is worth a first. If PIT wants 21, Rutherford is going to need to be much more creative . Adam Gretz who covers the Pens and writes for CBS Hockey was on GR this AM. Had some good thoughts on Bylsma http://d24edc7kaf4agn.cloudfront.net/1268190/105706782/rhiDownloadVariant/adam-gretz-of-cbs-says-bylsma-is-a-good-coach-105706782.mp3?rhihttphost=media.wgr550.com Edited May 27, 2015 by BRAWNDO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 If Rutherford wants 21 he can shove his phone where the sun don't shine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBHockey13 Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Absolutely if Babcock only worth a third there is NFW Bylsma is worth a first. If PIT wants 21, Rutherford is going to need to be much more creative . This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanbe Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 F*ck no. If they want a first round pick for Bylsma? What? That's insane. I'd rather Richardson than give up a pick for Bylsma. I agree. NO way will I want the Sabres to give up a 1. Pitt can continue to pay him while he does commentary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 No way I give up anything close to a 1st for Bylsma. If Babcock was only going to be a 3rd, Bylsma is not worth anymore than a 4th or 5th. As far as part of a package deal, any deal for Bylsma is separate from any deal for players/prospects. No combo deal...sorry Shitt$$burgh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 No way I give up anything close to a 1st for Bylsma. If Babcock was only going to be a 3rd, Bylsma is not worth anymore than a 4th or 5th. As far as part of a package deal, any deal for Bylsma is separate from any deal for players/prospects. No combo deal...sorry Shitt$$burgh. Nice :worthy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 :) Wasn't everyone popping champagne in the front office a few days ago? How much would Babcock have gotten from Toronto if Buffalo didn't get involved? Now......you don't want to give rightful compensation (which y'all misreadin' anyway), to the waddlin' birds? That's OK.....feel free to keep your draft pick. The coaching budget just went from $50 million to $4 million.......but at least you will get a guy who is 2 years older than Bylsma to come aboard who has lead the Baby Sens to one playoff game victory in his 3 years of coaching in the AHL. If God cast out angels from actual Heaven.........isn't it a possibility that some need to be cast out of, Hockey Heaven???........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 :) Wasn't everyone popping champagne in the front office a few days ago? How much would Babcock have gotten from Toronto if Buffalo didn't get involved? Now......you don't want to give rightful compensation (which y'all misreadin' anyway), to the waddlin' birds? That's OK.....feel free to keep your draft pick. The coaching budget just went from $50 million to $4 million.......but at least you will get a guy who is 2 years older than Bylsma to come aboard who has lead the Baby Sens to one playoff game victory in his 3 years of coaching in the AHL. If God cast out angels from actual Heaven.........isn't it a possibility that some need to be cast out of, Hockey Heaven???........ PREACH!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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