tom webster Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Read what I said. The power is what is being abused. But these are consenting adults. In an "abuse of power" scenario, a superior, be it a boss, a teacher, a parent uses their power to manipulate a subordinate to get what they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Read what I said. The power is what is being abused. Power can't be victimized. Power is a tool. Who is the victim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Power can't be victimized. Power is a tool. Who is the victim? I think the better question is who is the tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 I think the better question is who is the tool. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 I believe the word you are looking for is idealistic. And yes, he's idealistic in spades. I suppose most all of us were at one time. I remember hope, wait,... do I?... Yes. I remember hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 I remember hope, wait,... do I?... Yes. I remember hope. What about Bob? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 I have not said anything that shows that I don't believe women can be just as predatory (In fact, I believe that they often are). And there is nothing in the definition of exploitation that requires that the victimized party is unaware of it. Maybe predatory isn't the right word because, despite my insisting otherwise, you can't ignore the negative connotations that come with the word in this setting. Maybe "abuse of power" is more appropriate for what I'm getting at. I think the issue that some of us have with "predatory" is that it implies that the women are being victimized. The same implication is present if you use "abuse of power." Do you think these women are being victimized? If a woman went to meet McCoy at an autograph signing (i.e. a staged event at which she knew he would be present) and ended up voluntarily going home with him and making the beast with 2 backs, would she be victimized? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musichunch Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 I'm not anyone wealthy or famous, but there's been a couple times in my life where I've crossed paths with men like that. I would usually see women do things I've never seen them do with regular guys. Have threesomes without a "hello" or "nice to meet you", falling over themselves to get introduced. I live in Miami and have heard many other stories. My girlfriend has a friend in her 20's who has no job, just travels around the world on rich men's dime and parties with them. Hooks up with them if she wants, but has enough social skills for that to be up to her to decide (and still get the things she wants). Plenty of girls like that around here. They're trained by the older women who are past their prime. Not all of them do it, but lots do. When McCoy posts a party that's "Females Only", the only victims are the regular guys like us who aren't invited. We're missing out on a hell of party. As for the "predator" stuff. I appreciate your idealism, but reality and idealism are two different things, otherwise we'd all be communists. My eyes and ears have seen some crazy stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) Let's pretend one of your (whoever i'm hypothetically speaking too) 18 year old daughters got invited to a all female party, with confidentiality forms, and many older men. You would be comfortable with it? You don't think their is potential for your daughter to be a victim of manipulation by someone who has a goal. I'm not saying this is predatory behavior, but it is more of a grey area than most of you are letting on. How many guys out at the bar on a Friday night spinning their best lines in the hope of getting lucky are predators? Obviously the 50-year-old in your example is clearly over the line, whereas I think Shady is a douchebag, not a predator. But it raises a good question: At what point does "should have known better" become relevant? How many guys at the bar have that big of power imbalance than the young women? And a lot of the normal guys at the bar can be considered predators, I have no problem saying that. And I agree with you about there is a gray area of "should have known better" or not, and that's my only point. You changed the dynamics of the perceived hunt. You have an experienced hunter vs. young prey. The party seems to be of similar aged people, the experienced vs. naïve is not an argument that can be used. A millionaire celebrity isn't experienced compared to a 21 year old girl possibly enamored by money and power...Surely you can see the power dynamic still be heavily shifted towards one side. THere is still an age difference, and i'm sure there will be older guys than shady there, and there is much bigger power imbalance in this situation due to other factors money/fame. Edited July 24, 2015 by Johnny DangerFace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) Let's pretend one of your (whoever i'm hypothetically speaking too) 18 year old daughters got invited to a all female party, with confidentiality forms, and many older men. You would be comfortable with it? You don't think their is potential for your daughter to be a victim of manipulation by someone who has a goal. I'm not saying this is predatory behavior, but it is more of a grey area than most of you are letting on. How many guys at the bar have that big of power imbalance than the young women? And a lot of the normal guys at the bar can be considered predators, I have no problem saying that. And I agree with you about there is a gray area of "should have known better" or not, and that's my only point. A millionaire celebrity isn't experienced compared to a 21 year old girl possibly enamored by money and power...Surely you can see the power dynamic still be heavily shifted towards one side. THere is still an age difference, and i'm sure there will be older guys than shady there, and there is much bigger power imbalance in this situation due to other factors money/fame. Here's the thing: your daughter wasn't invited. She saw an advertisement and took the initiative herself to go. We're talking different animals here. Edit: To your second point, I'd actually argue what a lot of guys do at bars is worse than this. Thats taking advantage of women who have been drinking and may not have their faculties about them. With what McCoy is doing there is plenty of time for women to think and re-think their decisions while stone sober. Edited July 24, 2015 by TrueBluePhD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) Here's the thing: your daughter wasn't invited. She saw an advertisement and took the initiative herself to go. We're talking different animals here. Not in my opinion. Same with young girls who willingly go to vegas to be stars who get taken advantage of by creepy ass strip club owners. Those guys are predatory in my opinion. But I guess in everyone's opinion here, they arent because the girls willingly went there and found themselves in the situation? Those club owners know who to look for, and know exactly what they are doing. Most girls would never go to this Shady event because it has too many red flags. Events like this attract a certain personality, Shady knows that. Again, my view is this is a gray area and I could argue either side. I could argue strip club owners are predators who manipulate young girls who willingly got themselves into situations. There is a target audience here going into a situation they could very possibly be naive about. The guy throwing the party may very well know that and could use manipulation to achieve some goals. Thats predatory, sorry. Think of it as a bugs bunny trap haha. Most would see it a million miles away, some don't though Edited July 24, 2015 by Johnny DangerFace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musichunch Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Not in my opinion. Same with young girls who willingly go to vegas to be stars who get taken advantage of by creepy ass strip club owners. Those guys are predatory in my opinion. But I guess in everyone's opinion here, they arent because the girls willingly went there and found themselves in the situation? Those club owners know who to look for, and know exactly what they are doing. Most girls would never go to this Shady event because it has too many red flags. Events like this attract a certain personality, Shady knows that. Again, my view is this is a gray area and I could argue either side. I could argue strip club owners are predators who manipulate young girls who willingly got themselves into ###### situations. There is a target audience here going into a situation they could very possibly be naive about. The guy throwing the party may very well know that and could use manipulation to achieve some goals. Thats predatory, sorry. Think of it as a bugs bunny trap haha. Most would see it a million miles away, some don't though You're projecting really bad. Many of the women attending these events are "pros". They've slept around a lot and know what's up. Will a couple 18 year olds sneak in? Maybe. But many of them have already been with 10+ guys. You want to talk about power imbalance? What about the power a really beautiful woman has over a rich, powerful man? It goes both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 You're projecting really bad. Many of the women attending these events are "pros". They've slept around a lot and know what's up. Will a couple 18 year olds sneak in? Maybe. But many of them have already been with 10+ guys. You want to talk about power imbalance? What about the power a really beautiful woman has over a rich, powerful man? It goes both ways. I just strongly strongly disagree with all of which you said. Ill leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Let's pretend one of your (whoever i'm hypothetically speaking too) 18 year old daughters got invited to a all female party, with confidentiality forms, and many older men. You would be comfortable with it? You don't think their is potential for your daughter to be a victim of manipulation by someone who has a goal. I'm not saying this is predatory behavior, but it is more of a grey area than most of you are letting on. How many guys at the bar have that big of power imbalance than the young women? And a lot of the normal guys at the bar can be considered predators, I have no problem saying that. And I agree with you about there is a gray area of "should have known better" or not, and that's my only point. A millionaire celebrity isn't experienced compared to a 21 year old girl possibly enamored by money and power...Surely you can see the power dynamic still be heavily shifted towards one side. THere is still an age difference, and i'm sure there will be older guys than shady there, and there is much bigger power imbalance in this situation due to other factors money/fame. I wouldn't want my daughter to attend this party, and I wouldn't want my son to host it. The whole thing is extremely cheesy. However, a 21-year-old woman is free to go to a party and seduce, or be seduced by, an NFL player. She is also free to regret her choices. But unless someone rapes someone else, no one has acted like a predator and no one has been victimized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Okay, so there is absolutely nothing predatory about this? I'm honestly asking. I'll present it how I view it: He's so sick and tired of having to go out to a club and sift through a crowd of people to find one he can sleep with. Instead he is going to ensure that there is no effort. He's going to get a group of attractive women together at a location only he and likely others in his inner circle know. Then he's going to show up having already seen photos and the names of those attending. Then he will likely drink and dance before leaving the party with one or multiple women to do whatever else it is that adults do alone in the dark. I view that as pretty grimy. Predatory? Maybe, maybe not. I can understand an argument either way. I'm not uncomfortable with using that word. Two of the three "big" local TV stations referred to it as an "inappropriate party invite." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musichunch Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) I just strongly strongly disagree with all of which you said. Ill leave it at that. I've seen everything I said with my own eyes. I have no clue what you strongly disagree with. Okay, so there is absolutely nothing predatory about this? I'm honestly asking. I'll present it how I view it: He's so sick and tired of having to go out to a club and sift through a crowd of people to find one he can sleep with. Instead he is going to ensure that there is no effort. He's going to get a group of attractive women together at a location only he and likely others in his inner circle know. Then he's going to show up having already seen photos and the names of those attending. Then he will likely drink and dance before leaving the party with one or multiple women to do whatever else it is that adults do alone in the dark. I view that as pretty grimy. Predatory? Maybe, maybe not. I can understand an argument either way. I'm not uncomfortable with using that word. Two of the three "big" local TV stations referred to it as an "inappropriate party invite." Sounds like how it's always been done by the rich and famous since the beginning of time. Edited July 24, 2015 by musichunch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Okay, so there is absolutely nothing predatory about this? I'm honestly asking. I'll present it how I view it: He's so sick and tired of having to go out to a club and sift through a crowd of people to find one he can sleep with. Instead he is going to ensure that there is no effort. He's going to get a group of attractive women together at a location only he and likely others in his inner circle know. Then he's going to show up having already seen photos and the names of those attending. Then he will likely drink and dance before leaving the party with one or multiple women to do whatever else it is that adults do alone in the dark. I view that as pretty grimy. Predatory? Maybe, maybe not. I can understand an argument either way. I'm not uncomfortable with using that word. Two of the three "big" local TV stations referred to it as an "inappropriate party invite." 1) Actually, he has done it before so I don't know about sick and tired. 2) Local TV? The same local TV that spent half a day telling us about how some shcmuck got taken by a girl he met on line for $125 and somehow felt this was newsworthy? As for this story, the reporting I saw seemed more focus on his use of the Bills logo. But to answer your question, In my mind there is absolutely nothing predatory about it. I think reality tv is ten times worse because they prey upon the stupid and less fortunate. These woman know what to expect and if they don't, they just have to google McCoy and party bus to find out what happens if they don't want to play along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dominator Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 If anything, the invite takes away any chance this party turns into something it shouldn't. Would it be better if he invited anyone and possibly did something he regretted with someone who doesn't have their whits about them? Or is it better to be straight-up from the get-go about the point of the party and what his expectations are when everyone is sober and able to make their own decisions with ample time to change their mind? Is the invite a turn-off for a lot of people? Yes. And it is supposed to be. That way, anyone who is uncomfortable with the party won't end up there in the first place. Crude? Probably. But misleading? Definitely not, and there's something to be said for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 1) Actually, he has done it before so I don't know about sick and tired. 2) Local TV? The same local TV that spent half a day telling us about how some shcmuck got taken by a girl he met on line for $125 and somehow felt this was newsworthy? As for this story, the reporting I saw seemed more focus on his use of the Bills logo. But to answer your question, In my mind there is absolutely nothing predatory about it. I think reality tv is ten times worse because they prey upon the stupid and less fortunate. These woman know what to expect and if they don't, they just have to google McCoy and party bus to find out what happens if they don't want to play along. The local TV note was a separate notes presented without comment. I thought it was inappropriate of them to call it inappropriate when presenting the news. And ha, I know what story you're talking about with the online date stuff. On the other thoughts: fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Let's face it, since there is a confidentiality agreement, McCoy clearly has a lawyer in his ear for this party. That seems to me like a situation where they're going to go out of their way to make sure nothing illegal happens. They're very well aware of the negatives that could occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Okay, so there is absolutely nothing predatory about this? I'm honestly asking. What really sets it apart for me is the timeline involved. He didn't put the women in a high-pressure take it or leave it situation which can easily lead to rash decisions. Even if it piqued the interest of many initially, there was plenty of time to get beyond that initial interest and think it over. The women can back out until the very last minute, which is what, 1-2 weeks after seeing the initial advertisement? I'm sure most of us have done something on impulse and then regretted it for at least a few days. Well even if some women impulsively "applied" they have more than enough time to correct their mistake. I just can't get beyond how much time there is to make a completely voluntary decision, for the purpose of fun, as predatory. The women are not in a vulnerable situation, have time to think it through on multiple levels, and are not being coerced in any way to attend. For some who go it may end up being a bad decision...but that doesn't mean they were preyed upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted July 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 What really sets it apart for me is the timeline involved. He didn't put the women in a high-pressure take it or leave it situation which can easily lead to rash decisions. Even if it piqued the interest of many initially, there was plenty of time to get beyond that initial interest and think it over. The women can back out until the very last minute, which is what, 1-2 weeks after seeing the initial advertisement? I'm sure most of us have done something on impulse and then regretted it for at least a few days. Well even if some women impulsively "applied" they have more than enough time to correct their mistake. I just can't get beyond how much time there is to make a completely voluntary decision, for the purpose of fun, as predatory. The women are not in a vulnerable situation, have time to think it through on multiple levels, and are not being coerced in any way to attend. For some who go it may end up being a bad decision...but that doesn't mean they were preyed upon. Well stated. While it is extremely crass, it is an individual arranging for other like minded individuals to end up in a situation where they know they'll be with other like minded individuals and can act accordingly. EVERYONE that goes to that party expects to be used (and that includes the host) and presumably is ok with it. If anything, this is the opposite of predatory. (Unless you believe that anytime a young man goes to a bar to pick up a woman, he's exploiting those that he's successful with. 'Cause that is what this essentially is. 2 (or likely more ;)) mutually consenting adults agreeing that they will soon be debasing each other.) Crass - absolutely. Predatory? Only if the definition is being stretched to the point that it loses meaning what referring to truly predatory behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Well stated. While it is extremely crass, it is an individual arranging for other like minded individuals to end up in a situation where they know they'll be with other like minded individuals and can act accordingly. EVERYONE that goes to that party expects to be used (and that includes the host) and presumably is ok with it. If anything, this is the opposite of predatory. (Unless you believe that anytime a young man goes to a bar to pick up a woman, he's exploiting those that he's successful with. 'Cause that is what this essentially is. 2 (or likely more ;)) mutually consenting adults agreeing that they will soon be debasing each other.) Crass - absolutely. Predatory? Only if the definition is being stretched to the point that it loses meaning what referring to truly predatory behavior. TONIGHT, at The Pit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) Classy move, HOF https://twitter.com/NYTSports/status/624660948268285952/photo/1 Edited July 25, 2015 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Classy move, HOF https://twitter.com/NYTSports/status/624660948268285952/photo/1 They made it a rule in 2011 that nobody can speak at the induction of deceased inductees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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