PASabreFan Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 If anyone listened to the Pegulas and Murray over the past couple of days and has not concluded that this is the plan, well, then you're not listening. The Pegulas on WGR? I don't think they admitted to a Tank Plan. They described the whole process as a rather routine rebuilding situation, and Terry seemed to suggest they were in this place because they lost players like Miller and Vanek. What did Tim say? My fear is I have to spend the next 7 months reading this sort of thing. We're the worst team in the league and it's really not even close. Plus, this is *before* Murray does any roster manipulation, and before the players really start running for the bus. We may not have great odds of winning the lottery, but we have a great chance to finish last. Will the league use points or Fenwick Close percentages to determine the standing? The Sabres are getting wins and points against very good teams. It should be a point of concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) Will the league use points or Fenwick Close percentages to determine the standing? The Sabres are getting wins and points against very good teams. It should be a point of concern. People also forget that other teams know about McDavid and Eichel too. What's to stop Carolina from trading everyone this month or next? There's also a chance for teams to collapse all on their own. Last year that team was us (pre-Nolan) when seemingly no one was willing to care. The Sabres don't look like they're going to do that again. The season is only about 1/6th over. A lot can happen. Edited November 8, 2014 by Robviously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 People also forget that other teams know about McDavid and Eichel too. What's to stop Carolina from trading everyone thus month or next? There's also a chance for teams to collapse all on their own. Last year that team was us (pre-Nolan) when seemingly no one was willing to care. The Sabres don't look like they're going to do that again. The season is only about 1/6th over. A lot can happen. Carolina needs to make the playoffs to make money. They don't have the Sabres fanbase. They are only relevant when winning. A long rebuild for Carolina would be very hard on them. That being said I think they make a significant trade this season. If we don't get Jack or Connor their are still very high quality forwards and defenders in this draft. Barzel, Strome, Zacha, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 The Pegulas on WGR? I don't think they admitted to a Tank Plan. They described the whole process as a rather routine rebuilding situation, and Terry seemed to suggest they were in this place because they lost players like Miller and Vanek. What did Tim say? Will the league use points or Fenwick Close percentages to determine the standing? The Sabres are getting wins and points against very good teams. It should be a point of concern. Fenwick close is a better predictor of future wins than current wins are. You don't have to like it, or even understand it, but it's true. So while the standings aren't straight set by it, betting on Fenwick is a better bet than a fluke result against a good team that's sleepwalking on a given night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) Carolina needs to make the playoffs to make money. They don't have the Sabres fanbase. They are only relevant when winning. A long rebuild for Carolina would be very hard on them. That being said I think they make a significant trade this season. If we don't get Jack or Connor their are still very high quality forwards and defenders in this draft. Barzel, Strome, Zacha, etc... Those guys arent franchise-changing talents and would make this tank almost a waste. They are very good prospects, but they don't compare to McEichel. Would slow the rebuild down by 2-3 years compared to a McEichel. Edited November 8, 2014 by Tankalicious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) The Shart is no different than the Stanley: you come up with a plan and you execute it to the best of your ability. You get a coach who can get the players to buy into the system and an owner willing to pay for the right players. You can do everything right. But you can't prevent a puck from going over the glass, bacteria on a shin pad, or a referee missing a foot in the crease. You play the game as best you can and hope the dice roll in your favour. Edited November 8, 2014 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Carolina needs to make the playoffs to make money. They don't have the Sabres fanbase. They are only relevant when winning. A long rebuild for Carolina would be very hard on them. That being said I think they make a significant trade this season. If we don't get Jack or Connor their are still very high quality forwards and defenders in this draft. Barzel, Strome, Zacha, etc... If we have to "settle" for Hanifin at 3, I'd still feel pretty confident with Reinhart and Hanifin as the two pillars of our rebuild. After that it gets sketchy. There's a big drop off and guys like Marner and Barzal are smaller than Samson. Imagine the Darcy jokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 I don't think people from either side of the tank should be putting down the other side. There's no one way to be a fan. With that said -- what could you possibly expect other than a mountain of losses? Might as well look at the bright side of them. In three years one side will be proven right, the other side wrong. We have to wait to find which is which. Tank on my friends. If we have to "settle" for Hanifin at 3, I'd still feel pretty confident with Reinhart and Hanifin as the two pillars of our rebuild. After that it gets sketchy. There's a big drop off and guys like Marner and Barzal are smaller than Samson. Imagine the Darcy jokes. Hanifin was minus -4 against BU last night, he is totally going to be a bust!! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 In three years one side will be proven right, the other side wrong. We have to wait to find which is which. There will be nothing proven. The only known will be what happened this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 There will be nothing proven. The only known will be what happened this time. The Sabres end up drafting Barzal or Marner 5th overall. They win the Stanley Cup three years later. Both sides claim to be right. I could live with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 I'm still looking for the answer to this question : Who in this organisation is going to help these kids develop? Getting McDavid might get us an extra 30 goals per season, but anyone thinking he'll change this team from "the worst team in hockey" to something other than "one of the worst teams in hockey" are fooling themselves. This team needs at least 2 or 3 vets who can still freakin' play, and still *want* to play, before our prospects will have any chance of becoming more than just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 I'm still looking for the answer to this question : Who in this organisation is going to help these kids develop? Getting McDavid might get us an extra 30 goals per season, but anyone thinking he'll change this team from "the worst team in hockey" to something other than "one of the worst teams in hockey" are fooling themselves. This team needs at least 2 or 3 vets who can still freakin' play, and still *want* to play, before our prospects will have any chance of becoming more than just that. And that's what all of our cap space, extra draft picks and prospects are there for. Once you get your franchise guy it's much easier to figure everything else out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 I'm still looking for the answer to this question : Who in this organisation is going to help these kids develop? Getting McDavid might get us an extra 30 goals per season, but anyone thinking he'll change this team from "the worst team in hockey" to something other than "one of the worst teams in hockey" are fooling themselves. This team needs at least 2 or 3 vets who can still freakin' play, and still *want* to play, before our prospects will have any chance of becoming more than just that. Gorges, Moulson, Gionta, and anyone we pick up next summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 The Sabres end up drafting Barzal or Marner 5th overall. They win the Stanley Cup three years later. Both sides claim to be right. I could live with that. It's going to be way more than three years. That timeline makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 I think most pro tankers accept that this franchise risks falling into oblivion by pursuing this avenue. I also think most are 100% fine with that risk. Shoot for the stars (Shart) and let the chips fall where they may. I'm still looking for the answer to this question : Who in this organisation is going to help these kids develop? Getting McDavid might get us an extra 30 goals per season, but anyone thinking he'll change this team from "the worst team in hockey" to something other than "one of the worst teams in hockey" are fooling themselves. This team needs at least 2 or 3 vets who can still freakin' play, and still *want* to play, before our prospects will have any chance of becoming more than just that. Those guys traditionally have not wanted to come here. For many Buffalo and free agency is a complete non starter. Something tells me they'd be willing to listen at least with a chance at "mentoring" a talent such as McDavid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Why are poeple talking about the tank? I thought this thread was about who is better, McDavid or Eichel and why people think so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Why are poeple talking about the tank? I thought this thread was about who is better, McDavid or Eichel and why people think so? Pretty much irreversibly intertwined topics at this juncture wouldn't you say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Pretty much irreversibly intertwined topics at this juncture wouldn't you say? Only because the thread ran that way. They are discrete issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Why are poeple talking about the tank? I thought this thread was about who is better, McDavid or Eichel and why people think so? Because everything depends on the tank. I think I am ok with the tank 21 hours a day. The 3 hours that I have to watch what a tank product looks like is when I hate the tank. I will continue to root for losses this year but then they need a new sales pitch. 2+ years of on purpose sucking is enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 It's going to be way more than three years. That timeline makes no sense. It's also a fantasy where the Sabres win the Stanley Cup. Settle down, Beavis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Fenwick close is a better predictor of future wins than current wins are. You don't have to like it, or even understand it, but it's true. So while the standings aren't straight set by it, betting on Fenwick is a better bet than a fluke result against a good team that's sleepwalking on a given night. I understand it. It's so simple a concept, that when I did look it up recently I was more than a bit surprised. This is the vaunted analytics? So some pencil necks in short sleeve dress shirts crunch some numbers and come to a conclusion that every hockey man since the invention of ice innately understands? The Sabres have beaten San Jose and Detroit and gotten points against Montreal and Boston. If they can do that while playing as poorly as the statistics suggest, what's going to happen when NHL players inevitably move closer to the mean? This team will not average 1.2 goals a game during an entire season. And... the goaltending has been pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 My question is this: if you were GMTM, would you try to move Stafford, Stewart, Myers, etc. right now for a lesser return (but ensure a complete tank) or trade them later when we will get more for them (and risk an incomplete tank)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 I understand it. It's so simple a concept, that when I did look it up recently I was more than a bit surprised. This is the vaunted analytics? So some pencil necks in short sleeve dress shirts crunch some numbers and come to a conclusion that every hockey man since the invention of ice innately understands? The Sabres have beaten San Jose and Detroit and gotten points against Montreal and Boston. If they can do that while playing as poorly as the statistics suggest, what's going to happen when NHL players inevitably move closer to the mean? This team will not average 1.2 goals a game during an entire season. And... the goaltending has been pretty good. The goaltending will most likely get burned out and allow more goals. I think at best it evens out but i doubt our goal output ever reaches 1.75 a game this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Pretty much irreversibly intertwined topics at this juncture wouldn't you say? Can an individual be for McDavid and against the tank at the same time? Or for the tank and against McDavid? It's sports, it's fun, just do what you feel and keep both feet on the wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Those guys arent franchise-changing talents and would make this tank almost a waste. They are very good prospects, but they don't compare to McEichel. Would slow the rebuild down by 2-3 years compared to a McEichel. I respectfully disagree. The entire point of tanking is to give you the best chance at landing elite players. Our tank just happens to coincide with McEichel, and that's of course the preferred outcome, but getting another top-5 pick is still worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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