Official 2015 NHL Draft Thread

[thewookie1]

I was reading one of the NHL's mock drafts and saw Marner dropping to Pick 8, do you think it'd be possible in that scenario to trade up from the late teens early 20s?

[dudacek]

Consider this:

Crosby: 2 Harts, 2 scoring titles, 3 first team all-stars, 1 cup

Orr: 2 Harts, 2 scoring titles (as a defenceman!), 8 first team all-stars,  2 cups

Howe: 6 Harts, 6 scoring titles, 12 first team all-stars, 4 cups

Lemieux: 3 Harts, 6 scoring titles, 5 first team all-stars, 2 cups

 

Seems to me Crosby is closer to the second tier of all-time greats — the Lafleurs and the Bossys — than he is the best of the best.

 

Everyone seems to equate McDavid with Crosby, i.e. probably the best player of his era.

McDavid question worth pondering: what if he is a step above that? 

[WildCard]

Consider this:

Crosby: 2 Harts, 2 scoring titles, 3 first team all-stars, 1 cup

Orr: 2 Harts, 2 scoring titles (as a defenceman!), 8 first team all-stars,  2 cups

Howe: 6 Harts, 6 scoring titles, 12 first team all-stars, 4 cups

Lemieux: 3 Harts, 6 scoring titles, 5 first team all-stars, 2 cups

 

Seems to me Crosby is closer to the second tier of all-time greats — the Lafleurs and the Bossys — than he is the best of the best.

 

Everyone seems to equate McDavid with Crosby, i.e. probably the best player of his era.

McDavid question worth pondering: what if he is a step above that? 

There's no emoticon online for my pants growing at this statement...

[inkman]

There's no emoticon online for my pants growing at this statement...

 

[WildCard]

 

Well played Ink  :lol:  :thumbsup:

 

Edit: Goldblum's facial expressions in a response to that emoticon are hilarious. 

Edited March 26, 2015 by WildComrade

[TrueBlueGED]

Consider this:

Crosby: 2 Harts, 2 scoring titles, 3 first team all-stars, 1 cup

Orr: 2 Harts, 2 scoring titles (as a defenceman!), 8 first team all-stars, 2 cups

Howe: 6 Harts, 6 scoring titles, 12 first team all-stars, 4 cups

Lemieux: 3 Harts, 6 scoring titles, 5 first team all-stars, 2 cups

 

Seems to me Crosby is closer to the second tier of all-time greats — the Lafleurs and the Bossys — than he is the best of the best.

 

Everyone seems to equate McDavid with Crosby, i.e. probably the best player of his era.

McDavid question worth pondering: what if he is a step above that?

You're comparing careers, right? Where were those players at 27? Crosby's points per game are top-5 all time if I'm remembering correctly...given the era he plays in, that's insane. I firmly believe he could out up near-Gretzky numbers if he played on a good team in the 80s.

[dudacek]

You're comparing careers, right? Where were those players at 27? Crosby's points per game are top-5 all time if I'm remembering correctly...given the era he plays in, that's insane. I firmly believe he could out up near-Gretzky numbers if he played on a good team in the 80s.

 

Points per game is bad judge because of the differences in eras. I was looking for indicators of seasons of dominance — being "the best."

 

At 27 Orr was pretty much what you see above. He only played eight full seasons, before his knees ended his career.

Howe had five scoring titles and three Harts at Crosby's age.

All of Lemieux's honours were collected before his first retirement after 12 seasons. And during that time he was competing with Gretzky.

 

Crosby is the best player of his era, but he hasn't soared over the rest. There is a higher level of dominance that a handful of players have hit.

What if the McDavid hype has actually been understated? What if he is a notch above?

Edited March 26, 2015 by dudacek

[TrueBlueGED]

Points per game is bad judge because of the differences in eras. I was looking for indicators of seasons of dominance — being "the best."

 

At 27 Orr was pretty much what you see above. He only played eight full seasons, before his knees ended his career.

Howe had five scoring titles and three Harts at Crosby's age.

All of Lemieux's honours were collected before his first retirement after 12 seasons. And during that time he was competing with Gretzky.

 

Crosby is the best player of his era, but he hasn't soared over the rest. There is a higher level of dominance that a handful of players have hit.

What if the McDavid hype has actually been understated? What if he is a notch above?

Points per game is a bad stat to judge across eras, but it works against Crosby, and the fact he's so high regardless of his era is insane to me and really says something.

 

But I'm not sure career scoring titles and Cups is very good either. Is it possible that the end of year awards and stats being lower speaks to more competition? For example, guys like Ovechkin and Malkin wouldn't have been able to play in the NHL in past eras, and they've been his main competition for awards and scoring titles.

[TrueBlueGED]

Just to add to my previous post, I think the argument could be made that the current talent base is wider now, so it's harder for any one player to consistently be on top of the mountain. You also have to consider the concussions Crosby has had, having lost nearly 2 full seasons, which is going to have a major impact on winning end of season awards.

 

Edit: This conversation is why I hate comparing players across eras. It's just so damn hard to do fairly.

Edited March 26, 2015 by TrueBluePhD

[dudacek]

Just to add to my previous post, I think the argument could be made that the current talent base is wider now, so it's harder for any one player to consistently be on top of the mountain. You also have to consider the concussions Crosby has had, having lost nearly 2 full seasons, which is going to have a major impact on winning end of season awards.

 

Edit: This conversation is why I hate comparing players across eras. It's just so damn hard to do fairly.

Scoring dominance would be relatively easy to calculate. How many more points are you scoring than your peers?

Pure dominance is subjective, so I went with indicators that show subjective consensus.

 

The point I was trying to make was that thre have been players that have seemed more dominant in their eras than Sid is in this one. If MCDavid is more dominant than Sid, does that change the narrative?

 

PS Orr and Lemieux had the same degree of injury concerns that Crosby has.

Edited March 26, 2015 by dudacek

[WildCard]

Nick Kypreos joking on Hockey Central that the Leafs, now only 5 points ahead of the Oiler's will fall to 3rd worst in the league and win McDavid  :sick:

[pi2000]

some interesting comments from Bill Daly on the lottery process.....

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/2015/03/25/sabres-coyotes-draft-lottery-connor-mcdavid-jack-eichel/70459464/

 

"It has nothing to do with transparency," deputy commissioner Bill Daly told USA TODAY Sports.

The NHL has shown a video describing the process on its website, but not many people have watched. Ernst and Young, the accounting firm that vouches for the integrity of trophy balloting, is on hand to make sure the draft lottery is conducted properly.

"All of the clubs participating are invited into the room (with the lottery machine)," Daly said. "They used to go, but they have stopped going."

The NHL is planning to release video of the lottery machine working because there is so much interest in this year's draft.

"You have some fan hysteria," Daly said. "I had an email (recently) from a Buffalo fan saying he wanted to be the Buffalo fan representative to observe the draft lottery. There is no doubt there is a higher focus on this draft."

[carpandean]

Ernst and Young, the accounting firm that vouches for the integrity of trophy balloting, is on hand to make sure the draft lottery is conducted properly.

 

 

That's good to know. 

[Randall Flagg]

good info there.

[LGR4GM]

Everyone seems to be of a consensus that nobody would trade the #1pick. That has a lot to do with one's impression of the gap between McDavid and Eichel. But what if...the Sabres have the 1 and the Yotes have the 2, would you entertain the Yotes 2015 1st, 2016 1st, Oliver Ekman Larson, Max Domi, Brendan Perlini for our 2015 1st and the Isles 2015 second? That may be hefty price, but for the sake of argument assume the Yotes would pay. Would you do it?

What the actual puck?

 

 

I was reading one of the NHL's mock drafts and saw Marner dropping to Pick 8, do you think it'd be possible in that scenario to trade up from the late teens early 20s?

If we have the 21st pick, depending on who sits at 8, you could probably trade 21 and something like a prospect or #31 and a later pick.  It really depends on if the player team #8 wanted is gone.  

[Sabrestrike]

Nick Kypreos joking on Hockey Central that the Leafs, now only 5 points ahead of the Oiler's will fall to 3rd worst in the league and win McDavid  :sick:

 

I refuse to get concerned about losing the lottery, even to the Leafs.  It would suck to have McDavid playing for an arch rival, but that's a possibility whether they finish 3rd from the bottom or better.  Heck, the Bruins could end up with him.  I'm focused on who the Sabres do get, and Eichel is capable of going head to head with McDavid, IMO, over the next 10 - 15 years.  Would be really fun to watch, actually.

[Rasmus_]

Everyone seems to be of a consensus that nobody would trade the #1pick. That has a lot to do with one's impression of the gap between McDavid and Eichel. But what if...the Sabres have the 1 and the Yotes have the 2, would you entertain the Yotes 2015 1st, 2016 1st, Oliver Ekman Larson, Max Domi, Brendan Perlini for our 2015 1st and the Isles 2015 second? That may be hefty price, but for the sake of argument assume the Yotes would pay. Would you do it?

 

First off, what in the blue moon, are you smoking.  There is no way that Don Maloney would ever bend over and take that kind of butt hurt for one player. Might they consider, 2015 1st, 3rd, and Dvorak or Lessio to move up to #1 for McDavid. Sure.  But seriously, this post just continues to go in hand with nonsense fantasy hockey trade proposals.  

[3putt]

First off, what in the blue moon, are you smoking.  There is no way that Don Maloney would ever bend over and take that kind of butt hurt for one player. Might they consider, 2015 1st, 3rd, and Dvorak or Lessio to move up to #1 for McDavid. Sure.  But seriously, this post just continues to go in hand with nonsense fantasy hockey trade proposals.  

First off what I am smoking is none of your business and besides it is for medicinal purposes and under a prescription from a healthcare provider from Jamaica.  And you failed to read the the qualifier that said assume they would pay it.  But if you think it is so for fetched that would not consider a trade up, go and read their fan boards.  The team is in danger of leaving and the apathy is setting in.  My point was, and is, that the value to a franchise of the difference between McDavid and Eichel exists but what is it?  That value is in the eye of the buyer or seller so I asked would you make that trade?  I could see them doing something but Dvorak or Lessio are meaningless to the Sabres.  We have that in the pipeline.  OEL is a whole other story.  The Lindros deal got done for a heck of a lot more plus cash.  I would want OEL and Domi and some other sweetener.  I do not think this is too far fetched if the Owner in AZ thinks he can rebrand the fan experience with a guy like McDavid.  We would get Sakic like player in the draft, a familar face for Reinhart and OEL to propel us into the top 5 D corps in the league.  Excuse me it is medication time.  :flirt:

[PASabreFan]

I posed the seemingly nonsensical idea that Murray might want Eichel over McDavid. Took some catcalls. Fine. Murray at least seems to be doing his due diligence in going to watch McDavid and Eichel play. Is his mind really made up? Or, more plausibly, is he actually going to see other guys? Strome etc.

[Hoss]

I posed the seemingly nonsensical idea that Murray might want Eichel over McDavid. Took some catcalls. Fine. Murray at least seems to be doing his due diligence in going to watch McDavid and Eichel play. Is his mind really made up? Or, more plausibly, is he actually going to see other guys? Strome etc.

Probably a lot of reasons to be in Erie. It's close by so it's easy to go. Strome. McDavid. Baptiste.

 

Baptiste seems like somebody he would want to see right now because there's still a chance he's an NHL player next season.

[dudacek]

I posed the seemingly nonsensical idea that Murray might want Eichel over McDavid. Took some catcalls. Fine. Murray at least seems to be doing his due diligence in going to watch McDavid and Eichel play. Is his mind really made up? Or, more plausibly, is he actually going to see other guys? Strome etc.

 

Due diligence, Strome, O'Connor, Baptiste, location, and just a chance to watch some good, meaningful hockey?

[PASabreFan]

McDavid? Yawn.

 

 

Sherry Bassin, the Otters’ 75-year-old owner who possesses a lifetime of hockey memories and a voice like an old record, scratchy and faint, recalled that the Hockey Hall of Famer Dale Hawerchuk, who coaches the O.H.L. rival Barrie Colts, said of McDavid: “He skates like Bobby Orr. He has the vision of Wayne Gretzky. And he handles the puck like Mario Lemieux.”

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/sports/hockey/hockeys-next-great-one-draws-a-crowd.html?_r=0

[Bob Malooga]

I am actually impressed that you went and found that.  Yes I like Blackwood more than I usually like goalies.

I won't lie, I was blown-away when I read that and that conversation was the VERY FIRST THING I thought of. Lol. (If was actually quite easy to find. Last page of that thread.)

 

But, I have also said before...I will never say something or add to a conversation if I don't know what I am talking about or haven't done my research.

 

As for my opinion, while the Sabres need a goalie...I just like the kid that much. Same with Matt O'Connor, we need a goalie yes, but I would take a shot at him anyways.

 

They can ALWAYS be used as assets, and having too many good goalies can never be a bad thing...again, in my personal opinion.

 

(I look at NHL goalies, the way I look at NFL Quarterbacks...you're not going to win unless you have a good one, and it never hurts to stockpile good ones to use as assets.)

 

EDIT: I want to add, although I like Blackwood A LOT...I still think Thatcher Demko ends up being the best goalie taken recently...which is what the conversation started over to begin with. Lol.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Bob Malooga

[LGR4GM]

Part of it is too, that I am less comfortable with our GT situation going forward and extremely comfortable with the depth at forward so I am willing to use a 2nd round pick on a GT.  Usually however Bob has it right, I prefer to wait until really late in the 2nd or the 3rd round to grab a GT because honestly you can find some really great guys there.

[Rasmus_]

Part of it is too, that I am less comfortable with our GT situation going forward and extremely comfortable with the depth at forward so I am willing to use a 2nd round pick on a GT.  Usually however Bob has it right, I prefer to wait until really late in the 2nd or the 3rd round to grab a GT because honestly you can find some really great guys there.

 

That's completely true, last year there were a slew of interesting prospects available in the late second to early fourth rounds.  Drafting a goalie is like picking up a lottery ticket from your local gas station.   They range from winning, to completely wasting your time! :)