So What Really Does Stop This Team From being Good

[MattPie]

It's a moot question. The better question is what possible insight can Terry have on the hockey side? Remember the reason for existence. The Sabres don't exist to be Terry's play thing.

 

If I reading that right, why is Terry assumed to be a complete dolt about hockey? There's plenty of people here that realistically have zero claim to know a thing about hockey (not involved with playing, the NHL, etc.), yet we all sit here and talk about with each other. Is Terry the brightest hockey mind around? Probably not. Is there any reason he's not as astute as people here? Not at all.\

 

EDIT: and take anything he says in the media with a grain of salt. If he spoke about the team the way some here do, he'd get run out of town on a rail. Just like players rarely say bad things about the team or city they play in, yet move on to be just as happy with the next team.

[...]

Yes, they are young but with Vanek and Miller now being here until at least the deadline, why can't this team have a successful season? I have not really let myself go there because I just assumed both would be gone.

 

 

Every-freaking-thing contributes. From the front office, to the coaches, to the fan-base. Everything is a swirling, self-loathing o.r.g.y. of fail. And everyone likes it that way.

[billsrcursed]

We're back to that dead end question: are most owners like Pegula? I can't say I know the answer. But I kind of doubt puck possession was Mike Ilitch's idea.

 

It's a moot question. The better question is what possible insight can Terry have on the hockey side? Remember the reason for existence. The Sabres don't exist to be Terry's play thing.

 

I'm still curious as to where you read/heard that Terry is making personnel decisions... I mean as opposed to allowing the money to be spent on players.

[Lanny]

I'm still curious as to where you read/heard that Terry is making personnel decisions... I mean as opposed to allowing the money to be spent on players.

I think the draft video at least shows he's involved in making personnel decisions.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I'm still curious as to where you read/heard that Terry is making personnel decisions... I mean as opposed to allowing the money to be spent on players.

They've all (Pegula, Black, Regier) said that it is a flat decision making process where EVERYONE is involved. Like Lanny said, the draft video showed Pegula in on all the meetings and asking questions towards decision making process. Devine flat out asked about Zadrov to Pegula instead of telling him. "Do you want to get tougher to play against?".....instead of saying, "We're going to take this guy, he'll make us a lot tougher to play against." It wasn't rhetorical.

[Claude_Verret]

Pegula being involved in the process is a whole different ballgame from Darcy/Devine et al. merely being puppets for Pegula's fantasy hockey team .

[nfreeman]

Pegula being involved in the process is a whole different ballgame from Darcy/Devine et al. merely being puppets for Pegula's fantasy hockey team .

 

Right on.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Pegula being involved in the process is a whole different ballgame from Darcy/Devine et al. merely being puppets for Pegula's fantasy hockey team .

And how many times do you see Darcy taking a stand and arguing against what Pegula's opinion is? My guess is that he tapdances for Pegula and tries to massage his opinion into Pegula, hoping he will see it the same way as Darcy....but what Pegula says, goes.

[Claude_Verret]

And how many times do you see Darcy taking a stand and arguing against what Pegula's opinion is? My guess is that he tapdances for Pegula and tries to massage his opinion into Pegula, hoping he will see it the same way as Darcy....but what Pegula says, goes.

 

If that's truly the case then what does it matter who the GM is? Why bang the drum to fire Darcy and gut the front office if Pegula is only going to hire another crew of yes men?

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

 

If that's truly the case then what does it matter who the GM is? Why bang the drum to fire Darcy and gut the front office if Pegula is only going to hire another crew of yes men?

At this point, you are correct. There was hope at one point, but given clueless statements such as "Please, Someone tell me something he has done wrong?"........it's pretty much worthless to fret about these guys.

[LGR4GM]

O good god we are now back to the Pegula meddling... I feel like there should be an entire thread devoted to this idea...

 

 

 

...wait a second...

[Sabre Dance]

Contrast Darcy's/TPegs' "style" of management to Jeremy Jacobs and Peter Chiarelli - after building a team that went to the Finals this year, they traded away a second round pick (Seguin) because he had a miserable playoff performance (or so it would seem). We still have Stafford and Darcy and Terry are (I'm sure) still hoping for him to "turn it around". Really? I think both of them have been reading too much Harry Potter, because this is "magical thinking". If your players don't (or won't) play, send them away. Darcy has made a couple of decent deals in his time with the Sabres, but as Mike Robitaiile says, "Even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then." The Bruins (and a few other teams, too) have made more ballsy moves in the last two seasons than Darcy has in his entire run with the Sabres.

I guess maybe the one thing that is preventing this team from being good is...complacency. There needs to be much more accountability. And if Pegula thinks that Buffalo media are being harsh on him and the team, he should go to Montreal or Toronto and read what the press has to say about those two teams. It would give him nightmares.... :blink:

[bunomatic]

Contrast Darcy's/TPegs' "style" of management to Jeremy Jacobs and Peter Chiarelli - after building a team that went to the Finals this year, they traded away a second round pick (Seguin) because he had a miserable playoff performance (or so it would seem). We still have Stafford and Darcy and Terry are (I'm sure) still hoping for him to "turn it around". Really? I think both of them have been reading too much Harry Potter, because this is "magical thinking". If your players don't (or won't) play, send them away. Darcy has made a couple of decent deals in his time with the Sabres, but as Mike Robitaiile says, "Even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then." The Bruins (and a few other teams, too) have made more ballsy moves in the last two seasons than Darcy has in his entire run with the Sabres.

I guess maybe the one thing that is preventing this team from being good is...complacency. There needs to be much more accountability. And if Pegula thinks that Buffalo media are being harsh on him and the team, he should go to Montreal or Toronto and read what the press has to say about those two teams. It would give him nightmares.... :blink:

 

this.

[TrueBlueGED]

Let's not pretend ballsy moves lead to success. For every Boston you have a Philly, where Holmgren has managed to ballsy-move a Cup contender into just another average team. Besides, the story on the Seguin trade is not written yet.

 

Look, I get that people want some more aggression after so long with Regier's relative passivity. I crave for him to "do something" too, but I think there has to be some happy medium between doing almost nothing and "omg look at the balls that team has!" I'd prefer Darcy to be replaced with a more proactive GM, but I don't want Paul Holmgren, Jr.

[That Aud Smell]

I'm still curious as to where you read/heard that Terry is making personnel decisions... I mean as opposed to allowing the money to be spent on players.

 

Man, we're back to PA's "trial" thread.

 

http://forums.sabrespace.com/topic/21880-the-trial-of-terry-pegula/

 

it's 5 pages of posts, but it's worth a perusal. i started out as a "gimme a break" skeptic, but am now satisfied that pegula involves himself in a substantial manner in shaping the team's roster. mind you, i'm not saying he's scouting players or running a stop watch, but he is getting information and perspective from his hockey people and, in response, asserting his opinion and preferences.

 

Pegula being involved in the process is a whole different ballgame from Darcy/Devine et al. merely being puppets for Pegula's fantasy hockey team .

 

right. the "puppet" paradigm would be meddling in the first degree -- maybe aggravated meddling in the first degree. i don't think anyone's really suggesting that's how it goes down.

 

... oh, wait.

 

My guess is that he tapdances for Pegula and tries to massage his opinion into Pegula, hoping he will see it the same way as Darcy....but what Pegula says, goes.

 

And how many times do you see Darcy taking a stand and arguing against what Pegula's opinion is?

 

How many times have any of us been privy to a contextualized conversation between the two men regarding personnel decisions and roster make-up?

 

I'll give you a hint, the answer rhymes with BEER OH.

 

EDIT: I will concede one point. As PA has pointed out, Darcy's public statements (sorry, I can't find them -- I recall hearing the interview on WGR when I was driving to a kid's soccer game, though) from this year indicated that in/around September 2011 Regier was reluctant to give Myers the sort of term and money that the team gave to him and that he saw Myers' struggles over the last 1.5 seasons as confirmation that there's a great risk in awarding that sort of contract to a young player. It is not unreasonable to hear Darcy as intimating that Peguala pushed to give the young man a boatload of kigash over Darcy's objection.

[Patty16]

Man, we're back to PA's "trial" thread.

 

http://forums.sabres...f-terry-pegula/

 

it's 5 pages of posts, but it's worth a perusal. i started out as a "gimme a break" skeptic, but am now satisfied that pegula involves himself in a substantial manner in shaping the team's roster. mind you, i'm not saying he's scouting players or running a stop watch, but he is getting information and perspective from his hockey people and, in response, asserting his opinion and preferences.

 

 

 

right. the "puppet" paradigm would be meddling in the first degree -- maybe aggravated meddling in the first degree. i don't think anyone's really suggesting that's how it goes down.

 

... oh, wait.

 

 

 

 

 

How many times have any of us been privy to a contextualized conversation between the two men regarding personnel decisions and roster make-up?

 

I'll give you a hint, the answer rhymes with BEER OH.

 

 

as do a great deal of owners in professional sports.

[That Aud Smell]

as do a great deal of owners in professional sports.

 

as with all things, there's a continuum.

 

the sabres took that big nasty russian kid with their second 1st rounder. devine asked "do you want to get tougher to play against?" -- pretty clearly referencing a round-table that the men had had in the past. both regier and pegula said "yes." that sort of choice was made in favor of, say, shoring up the winger scoring depth in the system (which is pretty shallow).

[bunomatic]

Let's not pretend ballsy moves lead to success. For every Boston you have a Philly, where Holmgren has managed to ballsy-move a Cup contender into just another average team. Besides, the story on the Seguin trade is not written yet.

 

Look, I get that people want some more aggression after so long with Regier's relative passivity. I crave for him to "do something" too, but I think there has to be some happy medium between doing almost nothing and "omg look at the balls that team has!" I'd prefer Darcy to be replaced with a more proactive GM, but I don't want Paul Holmgren, Jr.

 

Blue I think if players were given a choice of who they'd play for based on management style ( between Chiarelli or Regier ) without taking into account anything else ( contract,city,term,etc ) darcy would be left scrambling to find players.

[Patty16]

as with all things, there's a continuum.

 

the sabres took that big nasty russian kid with their second 1st rounder. devine asked "do you want to get tougher to play against?" -- pretty clearly referencing a round-table that the men had had in the past. both regier and pegula said "yes." that sort of choice was made in favor of, say, shoring up the winger scoring depth in the system (which is pretty shallow).

 

I believe they also needed some size and toughness as many on this board have screamed about. Most owners have a say in personnel, its just a degree of how much.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

 

Blue I think if players were given a choice of who they'd play for based on management style ( between Chiarelli or Regier ) without taking into account anything else ( contract,city,term,etc ) darcy would be left scrambling to find players.

Plenty of players would love playing for Darcy. The Hechts, Teppos, Connollys, and Pominvilles of the world probably enjoy the laid back, ultimate security with few expectations world that he festers.

 

 

 

I believe they also needed some size and toughness as many on this board have screamed about. Most owners have a say in personnel, its just a degree of how much.

Has Pegula shown any astute hockey knowledge in your opinion? Would he have anything of substance to add to a conversation of men who have been in the league for decades? Al I have seen is someone who didn't know the team was bankrupt and for sale, didn't want to talk about or had no clue about July 1st 2007, doesn't think Darcy has made a mistake, etc. Hard to tell me he should be allowed anywhere near a personnel decision other than handing the hockey department a blank check.

[Patty16]

Plenty of players would love playing for Darcy. The Hechts, Teppos, Connollys, and Pominvilles of the world probably enjoy the laid back, ultimate security with few expectations world that he festers.

 

Has Pegula shown any astute hockey knowledge in your opinion? Would he have anything of substance to add to a conversation of men who have been in the league for decades? Al I have seen is someone who didn't know the team was bankrupt and for sale, didn't want to talk about or had no clue about July 1st 2007, doesn't think Darcy has made a mistake, etc. Hard to tell me he should be allowed anywhere near a personnel decision other than handing the hockey department a blank check.

 

How would he show that one way or the other? Giving his opinion at a roundtable doesnt mean it will be taken or accepted by the hockey men.

 

The real problem is the hockey men in charge not the owner who says I kinda like this player.

[Taro T]

What stops this team from being good? Center depth and right wing scoring are good places to start I guess.

Don't know why this thread continues when that pretty much nails it.

[PASabreFan]

If that's truly the case then what does it matter who the GM is? Why bang the drum to fire Darcy and gut the front office if Pegula is only going to hire another crew of yes men?

 

That's what keeps me up at night. It's one of those "Terry doesn't know what he doesn't know" deals. He needs to realize this, step out of the process and be smart enough to hire an intermediary, a Scotty Bowman for example, to find the front office talent to really turn the franchise around. The odds of all of those things happening given what we know about Pegula are slim to none. It's really not about winning a Cup, I'm convinced of that now.

[LTS]

Don't know why this thread continues when that pretty much nails it.

 

Because training camp hasn't started. Once that opens we can spend 5 pages discussing how changing the color of skate laces is somehow relevant to cold the beer will be from Conehead.

[Claude_Verret]

Because training camp hasn't started. Once that opens we can spend 5 pages discussing how changing the color of skate laces is somehow relevant to cold the beer will be from Conehead.

 

I once got a warm beer from Conehead. Not just a little less than ideal cold, but almost room temp. I called him on it and asked him for my money back and he wouldn't do it. So the next time you hear Conehead yell out "get a warm beer from me, you get it for free" make sure you call him out.