So What Really Does Stop This Team From being Good

[That Aud Smell]

I don't think anyone gave the Sabres much of a chance to make the playoffs before that season, let alone sniff a Cup.

 

Maybe so. I just don't see any meaningful parallels between the two rosters and the comparative states of the league. Not yet, anyway.

[Sabre Dance]

You ever leave fish in the fridge for the weekend and forget about it when you go out of town? When you get back and open the fridge, the stench is overwhelming. Just because you identify that it was spoiled fish that hung around too long and you throw it out, that doesn't stop the stench from seeping into the vents, fans, ice, and all the other foods. Unless you throw everything out, defrost the entire thing and scrub it down, then put about 6 boxes of baking soda in it.....you are going to be gagging for months when you open that fridge. Want a nice tomato salad? A cold glass of lemonade? Scrambled eggs? Good luck.....they are all ruined just from being trapped in the same close confines for so long with the rotten fish. The Sabres not only went away for the weekend and left 5 pounds of perch in the fridge.....they went away for years. It's the same fridge, and just because some want to give kudos to the GM for throwing out the bad fish, one by one, the stench is so deeply entrenched in everything that it is almost a lost cause to cook anything at this point. The stench is so bad that you can smell it in the bedroom if you leave the door open too long.

 

............until there is a new fridge with entirely new inventory.....or the current fridge is scrubbed thoroughly and not just a token box of baking soda put inside....the long lingering effects of this debacle will have us gagging for years. Huge mistakes were made, and the course of trying to correct those have been too little too late.

 

I really like this analogy. I could never see the reasoning that just because Darcy was no longer "financially constrained" after TP bought the team that the results would be any different. Darcy's body of work under previous ownership speaks for itself; we're now going into the third full season with Pegula as the owner and the team could be worse than last year (which is really saying something). I agree - clean house from top to bottom. Too much complacency, not enough accountability with the current front office. Call it an infusion of new blood, a heart transplant...whatever. Just do it...

[bunomatic]

my short answer. The fact that TPegs is the ultimate fanboi. In hindsight changes should have been made immediately upon the purchase of the team based on results of previous seasons. Excusing the losing is a copout and ultimately fed into the lack of accountability that already existed in spades within this franchise. Its a results based business and they had it backwards in Buffalo. They were rewarding the people that simply put just couldn't get the job done.

[apuszczalowski]

Whats stops this team from being good?

 

Probably the same thing that stops your aunt from being your Uncle......... BALLS

 

Also a competent General Manager, players that your not hoping "This will be the year they finally breakout or be productive again"

 

 

Sure, its possible that they could surprise us all and be a great team next season, but I could also win the lottery tomorrow

[TrueBlueGED]

What stops this team from being good? Center depth and right wing scoring are good places to start I guess.

 

This.

 

A lot of things have to go right for the Sabres to be good this year. Gotta hope.

 

And this.

 

I really don't have much to add. There's still too many holes (important ones) and too much that has to go right for this team to be good for me to think it's even slightly realistic. We need Stafford to rebound, Armia to produce top-6 scoring from game 1, Myers to rebound in a big way, Pysyk to be ready to handle top-4 minutes, either Larsson or Girgensons to be able to handle the tough defensive minutes, Hodgson to learn how to at least be adequate defensively Grigorenko to produce top-6 offense...and that's just off the top of my head, there may be more. If all of that happens, we'll be damn good. But the most likely outcome is some of that goes right, some unforeseen things go wrong, and we end up where we've been for three years.

 

I just have a feeling Miller is going to bring it this year and if that happens, anything is possible......

 

Miller's been bringing it for years, the rest of the team hasn't. And I saw no changes made in the offseason to lead me to believe this year will be any different.

[North Buffalo]

But the most likely outcome is some of that goes right, some unforeseen things go wrong, and we end up where we've been for three years.

 

Purgatory...:(

[PASabreFan]

I really like this analogy. I could never see the reasoning that just because Darcy was no longer "financially constrained" after TP bought the team that the results would be any different. Darcy's body of work under previous ownership speaks for itself; we're now going into the third full season with Pegula as the owner and the team could be worse than last year (which is really saying something). I agree - clean house from top to bottom. Too much complacency, not enough accountability with the current front office. Call it an infusion of new blood, a heart transplant...whatever. Just do it...

 

Darcy's been constrained in different ways. The evidence clearly suggests it was Terry's, not Darcy's, vision to spend all that money in 2011. The so-called rebuild might also be Terry's call (Darcy did say the extent of it would be Terry's call). Until your strategic hockey decisions are being made by your general manager and not your low-information owner, I'm not sure it matters who the GM is. (And I believe you won't get a top-notch GM in here as long as that condition exists.)

[LGR4GM]

Bad 3rd Jersey's stop this team from being good, duh!

[wjag]

I'll go with Center, Defense and coaching.

[nfreeman]

Darcy's been constrained in different ways. The evidence clearly suggests it was Terry's, not Darcy's, vision to spend all that money in 2011. The so-called rebuild might also be Terry's call (Darcy did say the extent of it would be Terry's call). Until your strategic hockey decisions are being made by your general manager and not your low-information owner, I'm not sure it matters who the GM is. (And I believe you won't get a top-notch GM in here as long as that condition exists.)

 

First of all, saying "the evidence clearly suggests..." is way too strong.

 

Second, even if TP did push DR to sign Leino and Ehrhoff, how did that constrain Darcy? Were there other guys who DR would've acquired and who would've become difference-makers in the absence of those 2? And how much better would this other hypothetical defenseman have been than Ehrhoff? Also, Leino didn't play 95% of last year, so there was room for someone else to contribute in his absence.

 

At least 25 NHL GMs would love to be "constrained" by their owners in the way that DR has been constrained by TP.

[TrueBlueGED]

First of all, saying "the evidence clearly suggests..." is way too strong.

 

Second, even if TP did push DR to sign Leino and Ehrhoff, how did that constrain Darcy? Were there other guys who DR would've acquired and who would've become difference-makers in the absence of those 2? And how much better would this other hypothetical defenseman have been than Ehrhoff? Also, Leino didn't play 95% of last year, so there was room for someone else to contribute in his absence.

 

At least 25 NHL GMs would love to be "constrained" by their owners in the way that DR has been constrained by TP.

 

*raises hand*

 

You cannot sign a better defenseman than Ehrhoff for $4MM. If we were to assume that Pegula is the only reason we got both Ehrhoff and Leino, then he's hitting on 50% of his decisions. And Ehrhoff is certainly a bigger boom for $4MM than Leino is a bust for $4.5MM (thanks amnesty clause!....yes Shrader, I used amnesty on purpose). I'll take it.

[North Buffalo]

*raises hand*

 

You cannot sign a better defenseman than Ehrhoff for $4MM. If we were to assume that Pegula is the only reason we got both Ehrhoff and Leino, then he's hitting on 50% of his decisions. And Ehrhoff is certainly a bigger boom for $4MM than Leino is a bust for $4.5MM (thanks amnesty clause!....yes Shrader, I used amnesty on purpose). I'll take it.

 

Darcy and I have said this before seems to have a knack for finding good D and goaltenders, but is inept when it comes to forwards. Leino was a mistake because he was supposed to fill the glaring hole at center, not wing and Darcy way overpaid for him.

 

Also, Darcy didn't insist on sitting Vanek and Miller down the stretch, no guarantee, to make sure the Sabres received a top 4 pick and a chance at one of the top offensive guys.

No need to repeat the rest of the history on that issue, other than why hasn't Stafford been traded for draft picks or a prospect.

[LTS]

*raises hand*

 

You cannot sign a better defenseman than Ehrhoff for $4MM. If we were to assume that Pegula is the only reason we got both Ehrhoff and Leino, then he's hitting on 50% of his decisions. And Ehrhoff is certainly a bigger boom for $4MM than Leino is a bust for $4.5MM (thanks amnesty clause!....yes Shrader, I used amnesty on purpose). I'll take it.

 

I agree. Does anyone think there isn't a team in the NHL that wouldn't take Ehrhoff for $4MM?

 

I think the end of this season there are 3 players and 2 amnesty buyouts. Myers, Leino, and Stafford are all on notice. I still believe Leino can produce at the level desired but he has to avoid injuries. This could be that year. I'm not even going to prognosticate on Myers and Stafford.

 

Myers will have to justify the length of his contract this year to be kept.

 

I think the Sabres could be good. If their chemistry works and they can play hard. I'm not worried, this season is going to happen and I'm not expecting great things. Progress is all I ask.

[PASabreFan]

First of all, saying "the evidence clearly suggests..." is way too strong.

 

Second, even if TP did push DR to sign Leino and Ehrhoff, how did that constrain Darcy? Were there other guys who DR would've acquired and who would've become difference-makers in the absence of those 2? And how much better would this other hypothetical defenseman have been than Ehrhoff? Also, Leino didn't play 95% of last year, so there was room for someone else to contribute in his absence.

 

At least 25 NHL GMs would love to be "constrained" by their owners in the way that DR has been constrained by TP.

 

It does clearly suggest that. We have Pegula's and Regier's words, after all. Terry said he wanted to sign those players and that they were his decision. He said it. Darcy said the approach taken that offseason was not the right way to build a team. Darcy also said Terry would determine the extent of the rebuild.

 

I just totally disagree that any GM with a nut bra wants that kind of direction from ownership.

[TrueBlueGED]

It does clearly suggest that. We have Pegula's and Regier's words, after all. Terry said he wanted to sign those players and that they were his decision. He said it. Darcy said the approach taken that offseason was not the right way to build a team. Darcy also said Terry would determine the extent of the rebuild.

 

I just totally disagree that any GM with a nut bra wants that kind of direction from ownership.

 

They may not want it, but that doesn't mean they don't get it.

[nfreeman]

It does clearly suggest that. We have Pegula's and Regier's words, after all. Terry said he wanted to sign those players and that they were his decision. He said it. Darcy said the approach taken that offseason was not the right way to build a team. Darcy also said Terry would determine the extent of the rebuild.

 

I just totally disagree that any GM with a nut bra wants that kind of direction from ownership.

 

TP said those signings were "his decision?" Link?

 

And the point about other NHL GMs was that they would all love to have the resources at their disposal that DR does. (And TB is right that they get direction from ownership whether they want it or not.)

[That Aud Smell]

TP said those signings were "his decision?" Link?

 

I think this is what PA had in mind:

 

“I think if you probably talk to other owners around the league, they might think that I may spend too much money,” Pegula said. “You may hear that or whatever, but that’s my style. … You might talk to some of the other owners around the league, and they’ll tell you, ‘Who’s this new owner? What is he, crazy? Why did you give this guy money or that guy?’ Hey, it’s my decision. It was something I wanted to do.”

 

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/sabres/2013/06/pegula-backs-regier-as-sabres-gm-owner-concerned-about-status-of-vanek-miller.html

[Claude_Verret]

[/size]

 

I think this is what PA had in mind:

 

“I think if you probably talk to other owners around the league, they might think that I may spend too much money,” Pegula said. “You may hear that or whatever, but that’s my style. … You might talk to some of the other owners around the league, and they’ll tell you, ‘Who’s this new owner? What is he, crazy? Why did you give this guy money or that guy?’ Hey, it’s my decision. It was something I wanted to do.”

 

http://blogs.buffalo...nek-miller.html

 

If that's the quote, then he's clearly talking about spending large amounts of money as being "what I wanted to do" and "my decision", not the targeting of any specific FA. Unless you have another quote in mind, PA?

[LGR4GM]

Darcy and I have said this before seems to have a knack for finding good D and goaltenders, but is inept when it comes to forwards. Leino was a mistake because he was supposed to fill the glaring hole at center, not wing and Darcy way overpaid for him.

 

Also, Darcy didn't insist on sitting Vanek and Miller down the stretch, no guarantee, to make sure the Sabres received a top 4 pick and a chance at one of the top offensive guys.

No need to repeat the rest of the history on that issue, other than why hasn't Stafford been traded for draft picks or a prospect.

Name a GM in the league who insists on sitting your only 2 star players in order to achieve a better draft pick.

 

PS. Don't bother because no one does this.

[MattPie]

Name a GM in the league who insists on sitting your only 2 star players in order to achieve a better draft pick.

 

PS. Don't bother because no one does this.

 

I'd think the NHL would have something to say about it too. Something along the lines of, "you no longer have a 1st round pick", I'd guess.

[North Buffalo]

Name a GM in the league who insists on sitting your only 2 star players in order to achieve a better draft pick.

 

PS. Don't bother because no one does this.

Yes you are right, but in the NFL it has happened, any nicks qualify as an injury. Vanek certainly would have qualified to rest as well as others to see how the young guys might perform...

 

I am am sure it isn't as blatent as I would suggest.... but.....

[nfreeman]

[/size]

 

I think this is what PA had in mind:

 

“I think if you probably talk to other owners around the league, they might think that I may spend too much money,” Pegula said. “You may hear that or whatever, but that’s my style. … You might talk to some of the other owners around the league, and they’ll tell you, ‘Who’s this new owner? What is he, crazy? Why did you give this guy money or that guy?’ Hey, it’s my decision. It was something I wanted to do.”

 

http://blogs.buffalo...nek-miller.html

If that's the quote, then he's clearly talking about spending large amounts of money as being "what I wanted to do" and "my decision", not the targeting of any specific FA. Unless you have another quote in mind, PA?

 

If that's the quote, then that was a pretty Clintonian assertion by PA.

 

If you want to have credibility, then you need to speak the truth.

[That Aud Smell]

If that's the quote, then that was a pretty Clintonian assertion by PA.

 

If you want to have credibility, then you need to speak the truth.

 

We threshed through this pretty good in the "Trial" thread. Pegula's statement about how that was "his" decision to go after those guys and give them all that money was viewed in the light of a lot of other things he's said and that Darcy has said -- e.g., that Pegula talks more with Darcy than he does his wife, that there's a collaborative process that goes into personnel decisions, that Pegula's in the war room and at the table when personnel decisions are being made, that Darcy rued the decision to give Myers a boatload of money and apparently had those feelings of regret at or around the time the decision to do so was made (i.e., it wasn't really his decision).

 

I'm satisfied that Pegula is not just saying that those are "his" decision because he's the owner and ultimately the buck stops with him -- on the contrary, he's made it quite clear that he's substantially involved in these decisions from the ground up and that they are therefore "his" decisions in an organic sense, not just in the "I'll take this bullet for my guys" sense.

[nucci]

You know what, I don't think you are completely crazy. Do I think they're a lock for a playoff spot? No chance, but at the same time it would not shock me. This is if and only if they keep Vanek and Miller (which I am not thrilled about). I think they will surprise some teams. We had a decent record with Rolston behind the bench and I just can't see Myers or Stafford giving us any less than they did last year. Add in Miller and Vanek in contract years and hopefully some improvements from some of the young guys including Grigs, Foligno and Pysyk and I think this adds up to a not great but decent hockey club. Although this is the end of August so maybe that's the reason I'm drinking the koolaide.

Yes he can and for 80 games instead of 50.

[PASabreFan]

They may not want it, but that doesn't mean they don't get it.

 

We're back to that dead end question: are most owners like Pegula? I can't say I know the answer. But I kind of doubt puck possession was Mike Ilitch's idea.

 

It's a moot question. The better question is what possible insight can Terry have on the hockey side? Remember the reason for existence. The Sabres don't exist to be Terry's play thing.