Draft Day 2013

[darksabre]

 

How do you know what the problem with his game had to do with?

 

Per Paul Hamilton and Jeremy White, the Sabres weren't thrilled with his attitude last year and moved his locker so that he was next to Ott, hoping the Ott would influence him in a positive way.

 

Also, I'm not sure what the difference is between "head case" and "full fledged head case" but the fact that you're even trying to draw a distinction is a bad sign. He dropped to us in the draft because other teams didn't like his attitude. It turned out his attitude the Sabres didn't love last year either. That's not good.

 

Your proof is a bunch of speculation by Hamilton and White? Good Lord.

 

You said in your post that the Sabres mishandled him. What else would that imply other than that it affected his play?

[LGR4GM]

How do you know what the problem with his game had to do with?

 

Per Paul Hamilton and Jeremy White, the Sabres weren't thrilled with his attitude last year and moved his locker so that he was next to Ott, hoping the Ott would influence him in a positive way.

 

Also, I'm not sure what the difference is between "head case" and "full fledged head case" but the fact that you're even trying to draw a distinction is a bad sign. He dropped to us in the draft because other teams didn't like his attitude. It turned out his attitude the Sabres didn't love last year either. That's not good.

he's 19, most 19yr old kids don't have the right attitude to play in the NHL. If I look at last years draft class I think 3 guys played in the NHL from that draft class other than Grigs. 25 games of crap play and not understanding what it takes is not the same as someone like drew stafford mailing it in year after year after year.

[qwksndmonster]

How do you know what the problem with his game had to do with?

 

Per Paul Hamilton and Jeremy White, the Sabres weren't thrilled with his attitude last year and moved his locker so that he was next to Ott, hoping the Ott would influence him in a positive way.

 

Also, I'm not sure what the difference is between "head case" and "full fledged head case" but the fact that you're even trying to draw a distinction is a bad sign. He dropped to us in the draft because other teams didn't like his attitude. It turned out his attitude the Sabres didn't love last year either. That's not good.

You're going over the top in every way negative about the Sabres, including the prospects we already had. Grigorenko wasn't ready for the show last year. He was put on the 4th line and played 5-7 minutes a game to get booed by our fans. Of course an 18 year old kid that is used to dominating hockey is going to have a bit of an attitude. His situation as literally 180'd by the way the Sabres handled him. There's so little for us to go on when it comes to being worried about his attitude.

[Eleven]

How do you know what the problem with his game had to do with?

 

Per Paul Hamilton and Jeremy White, the Sabres weren't thrilled with his attitude last year and moved his locker so that he was next to Ott, hoping the Ott would influence him in a positive way.

 

Also, I'm not sure what the difference is between "head case" and "full fledged head case" but the fact that you're even trying to draw a distinction is a bad sign. He dropped to us in the draft because other teams didn't like his attitude. It turned out his attitude the Sabres didn't love last year either. That's not good.

 

A full-fledged headcase is a headcase whose wings are fully developed so that he is ready to fly.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Steal of the draft, IMO.

 

Panthers taking Mackenzie Weegar with the 206th pick.

[Robviously]

he's 19, most 19yr old kids don't have the right attitude to play in the NHL. If I look at last years draft class I think 3 guys played in the NHL from that draft class other than Grigs. 25 games of crap play and not understanding what it takes is not the same as someone like drew stafford mailing it in year after year after year.

Who said it was? I said it wasn't good. Does anyone actually dispute that? Or is the game just to point out that it could have been even worse?

[shrader]

Steal of the draft, IMO.

 

Panthers taking Mackenzie Weegar with the 206th pick.

 

We get it, you like Halifax players

[Robviously]

You're going over the top in every way negative about the Sabres, including the prospects we already had. Grigorenko wasn't ready for the show last year. He was put on the 4th line and played 5-7 minutes a game to get booed by our fans. Of course an 18 year old kid that is used to dominating hockey is going to have a bit of an attitude. His situation as literally 180'd by the way the Sabres handled him. There's so little for us to go on when it comes to being worried about his attitude.

I'm only going on what there is to go on. Hamilton and White (separately) said the team wasn't thrilled with his attitude and the team even moved his locker in hopes that that could help. That's actually far more alarming than the fact that he wasn't ready for the NHL as an 18 year old.

 

Nothing that happened in the last 12 months made me think he's going to be a stud no.1 center. He still could be. But this was not an encouraging first season after being drafted.

[JJFIVEOH]

Would it be in four games? Or seven? How did they play? You'll have to give me some more information before I can give you an idea of my level of bitchitude after the franchise's first Cup. Also, was the Cup-winning overtime goal a pretty goal or fluky?

 

It would be a 6th game overtime goal that bounced off an opponent's skate.

 

So yeah, they would need to work on that. :D

[spndnchz]

Promotion of websites is not allowed on this board.

 

Policy is that people are not to use our community and resources that cost $1000's a year to promote their own sites. SDS offers a place for people to discuss the Sabres. We have a top notch piece of software. A great server. No ads for members. We have the best community on the internet. It is a good deal.

 

Please refrain promoting your site on the board.

 

Thank you.

[LGR4GM]

Who said it was? I said it wasn't good. Does anyone actually dispute that? Or is the game just to point out that it could have been even worse?

The game is to point out that Mikhail Grigorenko having difficulty adjusting to the game at the NHL level as an 18yr old is not as alarming as you are trying to make it sound. You are basically making it sound as though he is a bust. Give the kid a chance.

[TrueBlueGED]

I'm only going on what there is to go on. Hamilton and White (separately) said the team wasn't thrilled with his attitude and the team even moved his locker in hopes that that could help. That's actually far more alarming than the fact that he wasn't ready for the NHL as an 18 year old.

 

Nothing that happened in the last 12 months made me think he's going to be a stud no.1 center. He still could be. But this was not an encouraging first season after being drafted.

 

I'm not saying you need to be on the bandwagon or trying to spin the first season in some positive fashion, but the tone of your recent posts does suggest an "it's all over for him" state of mind. I'm not sure if you are trying to come off that way or not, but you are.

[wjag]

So, for what it's worth, and considering the great disdain about ESPN, I bravely cite that ESPN graded Buffalo's draft as A+.

[qwksndmonster]

ESPN gave us an A+? Do they know that the Sabres aren't a basketball team?

[Robviously]

The game is to point out that Mikhail Grigorenko having difficulty adjusting to the game at the NHL level as an 18yr old is not as alarming as you are trying to make it sound. You are basically making it sound as though he is a bust. Give the kid a chance.

As I said above, I don't mind that he wasn't ready for the NHL as an 18 year old. I *do* mind that he had attitude problems since those same problems scared off 11 teams in front of us and are the reason he fell to us in the first place.

 

That's not good at all, especially when we've all been pinning our hopes on this guy as our stud no.1 center of the future.

 

I'm not saying you need to be on the bandwagon or trying to spin the first season in some positive fashion, but the tone of your recent posts does suggest an "it's all over for him" state of mind. I'm not sure if you are trying to come off that way or not, but you are.

I've explicitly said a few times in this thread that it's NOT "all over for him." So maybe people are upset about what I'm NOT typing?

 

Everyone is just freaked out because we all want him to be the "true no.1 center" we've spent YEARS dreaming about, and I'm pointing out -- correctly -- that the early returns aren't that great. Does he still have the most potential of anyone in our system? Yep. Is it a foregone conclusion that he'll reach that potential? Far from it.

 

The Sabres still need a franchise player. I guess it could be Grigorenko, but I still don't feel comfortable putting that label on anyone we have. This is why I wanted us to trade up so badly yesterday.

[...]

Wow, some people are really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

 

I would tend to trust the experts with their unbiased, educated opinion over those with biased, blind hatred towards the entire front office staff of the Sabres.

 

These same experts, on average, have had the Sabres finishing somewhere in the top 8 every year since the lockout. Yeah, they know the Sabres reeeeeaaalllllly well.

 

 

As I said above, I don't mind that he wasn't ready for the NHL as an 18 year old. I *do* mind that he had attitude problems since those same problems scared off 11 teams in front of us and are the reason he fell to us in the first place.

 

That's not good at all, especially when we've all been pinning our hopes on this guy as our stud no.1 center of the future.

 

 

I've explicitly said a few times in this thread that it's NOT "all over for him." So maybe people are upset about what I'm NOT typing?

 

Everyone is just freaked out because we all want him to be the "true no.1 center" we've spent YEARS dreaming about, and I'm pointing out -- correctly -- that the early returns aren't that great. Does he still have the most potential of anyone in our system? Yep. Is it a foregone conclusion that he'll reach that potential? Far from it.

 

The Sabres still need a franchise player. I guess it could be Grigorenko, but I still don't feel comfortable putting that label on anyone we have. This is why I wanted us to trade up so badly yesterday.

 

 

FWIW, I don't know what's going on with Grigs, but I share your concern. I think the attitude thing I can handle since he's so young; you want your 18 year old to be extroverted and confident. I do fear he was handled poorly last season which could either help to solve attitude problems or make them worse.

 

If he has a work-ethic/attitude problem he needs to dorm with a grizzled vet for a year who will scare/force the demons out of him and reinforce the good habits.

 

I thought I saw a lot of potential in him last season and I'd like to make sure that is nurtured and brought out. We know what happens when potential is squandered for whatever reason (Stafford).

[spndnchz]

As I said above, I don't mind that he wasn't ready for the NHL as an 18 year old. I *do* mind that he had attitude problems since those same problems scared off 11 teams in front of us and are the reason he fell to us in the first place.

 

That's not good at all, especially when we've all been pinning our hopes on this guy as our stud no.1 center of the future.

 

 

I've explicitly said a few times in this thread that it's NOT "all over for him." So maybe people are upset about what I'm NOT typing?

 

Everyone is just freaked out because we all want him to be the "true no.1 center" we've spent YEARS dreaming about, and I'm pointing out -- correctly -- that the early returns aren't that great. Does he still have the most potential of anyone in our system? Yep. Is it a foregone conclusion that he'll reach that potential? Far from it.

 

The Sabres still need a franchise player. I guess it could be Grigorenko, but I still don't feel comfortable putting that label on anyone we have. This is why I wanted us to trade up so badly yesterday.

 

That wasn't what scared off teams. Until you I never heard of an attitude problem before he was drafted.

[Bullwinkle III]

I had a long reply to this but I realized it's not worth it. You have a ridiculous opinion.

 

A ridiculous opinion - in YOUR opinion.

[thesportsbuff]

I had a question about Eric Locke. I fell asleep during the 6th & 7th rounds (woke up just in time to see Brodeur draft Brodeur) and missed this selection, I didn't realize until reading the recap e-mail from Sabres.com that he scored 44 goals and and 97 points in the OHL. How does a guy like that go in the 7th round -- it has to be his size, right? He's listed at 5'10", 184 lbs. But still, you'd think the third leading point scorer in the OHL would go earlier.

[Bullwinkle III]

Yeah, it's nothing against you or anything, In fact, I recognize the same thinking in myself, which is funny really, but also makes me a little sad. Right now I should be pumped about how awesome our team will be next year with Armia filling out our secondary scoring, and other exciting things to look forward too. I guess the ever optimist in me can still hope that Free Agency will save the day, but right now I am looking down the barrel of another season like last year, only twice as long. I wish I could enjoy the gallows humor, but man, I am struggling a little bit with it right now.

 

I can empathize with you. There is really nothing to look forward to. It would have been nice to see Nichushkin fly down the wing and barge to the net, but I've talked enough about that. Let's hope Armia can adapt to NHL sized rinks and handle the speed.

 

This concern over Grigorenko is valid. Take a look at Montreal's Galchenyuk, a fellow Russian. Now HE shows definite promise as a nr. 1 center and was drafted the same year. If that were Grigs, I wouldn't be worried at all.

[Trettioåtta]

I can empathize with you. There is really nothing to look forward to. It would have been nice to see Nichushkin fly down the wing and barge to the net, but I've talked enough about that. Let's hope Armia can adapt to NHL sized rinks and handle the speed.

 

This concern over Grigorenko is valid. Take a look at Montreal's Galchenyuk, a fellow Russian. Now HE shows definite promise as a nr. 1 center and was drafted the same year. If that were Grigs, I wouldn't be worried at all.

 

Galchenyuk is American.

 

Personally I think 25-48 games is too little to start including or excluding players from being a number one centre. This next full season, with a training week, exhibition games and that bit more time for the youngest player in the NHL to mature and we should get a better idea

[Taro T]

Galchenyuk is American.

 

Personally I think 25-48 games is too little to start including or excluding players from being a number one centre. This next full season, with a training week, exhibition games and that bit more time for the youngest player in the NHL to mature and we should get a better idea

Not having any of that definitely hurt him last year as did Leino going down. When Leino got injured it definitely looked like there were no line combos that LR felt comfortable playing a VERY young kid on.

 

I wasn't happy w/ his play last year, but it's tough to fault an offensive player for not producing when he's only playing 6 minutes a game w/ John Scott and whomever else is rounding out the 4th line. I thought he showed some glimpses of what he can do; this year will be interesting.

[JJFIVEOH]

I think there are quite a few things to look forward to. I'm looking forward to the season starting. It can only be better than last year.

 

Some people will just never be happy no matter who Darcy drafts.

Edited July 1, 2013 by JJFIVEOH

[Robviously]

That wasn't what scared off teams. Until you I never heard of an attitude problem before he was drafted.

From June 22nd of last year:

http://blogs.thescor...ail-grigorenko/

 

With so many things in his favor, why is Grigorenko such a question mark? Most of it can be boiled down to his attitude.

 

“I had one scout tell me that Grigorenko’s problems reminds him of all the bad qualities of Jason Spezza,” said Neate Sager, editor of Yahoo!’s Buzzing the Net. ”He’s a great shooter, great puck handler but does he work hard enough?”

 

“There were a lot of games where Grigorenko wasn’t much of a factor once teams really started to check him. You expect guys to kick it up a notch late in the year and they (Quebec) blew a 3-0 lead in the playoffs.”

Grigorenko will never be a lock to turn things around from an attitude perspective. It may very well happen — this could be a simple issue of maturity — but there have been plenty of players who had question marks pop up and never overcame them.

 

Surely this necessitates a different question, how good can Grigorenko be even if the concerns are never resolved?

From June 11th, 2012

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1333

 

It was around roughly February or March that I started getting a lot of people contacting me on Twitter asking about Grigorenko's character and on-ice work ethic. I'm not exactly sure when this issue started to take off, but it snowballed pretty quickly from the start of the spring to now. This was not news to me, as I had been well aware that Grigorenko's on-ice work ethic was a hole in his skill set. When I polled scouts at various points as I mentioned in this column, whenever I asked them to talk about his skill set, they would mention he's not the kind of player to go 100% every shift; yet despite that, they still talked about him in a glowing fashion. One head scout who had him as a top-three prospect said, "He may only be going at 75%, but he's still clearly the best player on the ice."

 

Just in case anyone thought I was conjuring this stuff out of thin air.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Robviously

[North Buffalo]

That wasn't what scared off teams. Until you I never heard of an attitude problem before he was drafted.

 

Really Chz, I heard it a lot that was the concern. He often appeared not listen, played the language barrier off as his excuse, he did his own thing and checked out at times especially on the effort side of things.

 

Some people chalked it up to diagnosis of Mono, but I heard rumbling it could just be an excuse for other problems, though I was hoping the rumors were wrong and it was just the illness.

 

He shows flashes of brilliance last season, but too often looked lost and floated like Stafford. Maybe it is a confidence thing with him and he will work out. Problem is the Sabres needed a guy that hit the ground running on the effort side of things. Darcy, once again making an excuse saying they got two centers last year to not go up an get one the talented top 6 this year imo is a big mistake.

 

High 5 Robviously for the above quotes!

Edited July 1, 2013 by North Buffalo