Game of Thrones

[nfreeman]

One of the best battle scenes ever filmed, too. Wow.

Holy freaking mackerel.

[wjag]

Loved the ending..  

 

and oh yeah, why on earth would you run in a straight line?

 

I have not read the books, but this is turning into Game of Queens.

Edited June 20, 2016 by wjag

[sabills]

I...didn't really care for that episode. I'll give credit to the cinematography and directing; that battle scene did a very good job showing how a battle could have gone in that time. Except for the fact that both of the commanders were freaking idiots.

 

WTF is John Snow doing? I understand running after your brother. But then charging the line? By yourself? Abandoning the entire gameplan just because Ramsey did EXACTLY WHAT SANSA FREAKING TOLD YOU HE WOULD DO?!?! He killed his men. Its his fault they lost that many. If he had held his ground they could have held off Ramsey for a good while. I know he didn't know the Vale troops were coming, but he still got about 1000 men killed from being uncharacteristically rash.

 

They you have Ramsey who had 6000 troops at his disposal but didn't feel like putting 50 of them out as pickets/scouts and missed AN ENTIRE ARMY coming in. I'll accept the fact that he's hotheaded and egotistical, but clearly he has a mind for battle planning as that episode showed. Still, not nearly as egregious as Snow's stupidity.

 

It was also all very predictable, which is fine in and of itself, but I really think they did a disservice to John's character by making him go all berserker mode just to fit the story line.

 

I have other issues, but whatever. Hardhome was way better.

[TrueBlueGED]

I...didn't really care for that episode. I'll give credit to the cinematography and directing; that battle scene did a very good job showing how a battle could have gone in that time. Except for the fact that both of the commanders were freaking idiots.

 

WTF is John Snow doing? I understand running after your brother. But then charging the line? By yourself? Abandoning the entire gameplan just because Ramsey did EXACTLY WHAT SANSA FREAKING TOLD YOU HE WOULD DO?!?! He killed his men. Its his fault they lost that many. If he had held his ground they could have held off Ramsey for a good while. I know he didn't know the Vale troops were coming, but he still got about 1000 men killed from being uncharacteristically rash.

 

They you have Ramsey who had 6000 troops at his disposal but didn't feel like putting 50 of them out as pickets/scouts and missed AN ENTIRE ARMY coming in. I'll accept the fact that he's hotheaded and egotistical, but clearly he has a mind for battle planning as that episode showed. Still, not nearly as egregious as Snow's stupidity.

 

It was also all very predictable, which is fine in and of itself, but I really think they did a disservice to John's character by making him go all berserker mode just to fit the story line.

 

I have other issues, but whatever. Hardhome was way better.

You do him a bigger disservice by misspelling his name :p

 

Really though, people wanted consequences of his resurrection. Maybe being more rash and emotional is it. The entire plan from the start of attacking without more men was very different from previous Jon.

[wjag]

As far as episodes go, that was one of the better ones..  Seems like battles are good episodes, non-battles and set up are not.

 

I really enjoyed it, so this nitpicking is just Monday Morning QBing.

 

That Giant dude should have been able to kick his way through those shields. He punch through a castle door full of arrows, but couldn't kick through a line of shields?

[Huckleberry]

I...didn't really care for that episode. I'll give credit to the cinematography and directing; that battle scene did a very good job showing how a battle could have gone in that time. Except for the fact that both of the commanders were freaking idiots.

 

WTF is John Snow doing? I understand running after your brother. But then charging the line? By yourself? Abandoning the entire gameplan just because Ramsey did EXACTLY WHAT SANSA FREAKING TOLD YOU HE WOULD DO?!?! He killed his men. Its his fault they lost that many. If he had held his ground they could have held off Ramsey for a good while. I know he didn't know the Vale troops were coming, but he still got about 1000 men killed from being uncharacteristically rash.

 

They you have Ramsey who had 6000 troops at his disposal but didn't feel like putting 50 of them out as pickets/scouts and missed AN ENTIRE ARMY coming in. I'll accept the fact that he's hotheaded and egotistical, but clearly he has a mind for battle planning as that episode showed. Still, not nearly as egregious as Snow's stupidity.

 

It was also all very predictable, which is fine in and of itself, but I really think they did a disservice to John's character by making him go all berserker mode just to fit the story line.

 

I have other issues, but whatever. Hardhome was way better.

 

That was to set up Sansa start as leader I guess.

[sabills]

You do him a bigger disservice by misspelling his name :P

 

Really though, people wanted consequences of his resurrection. Maybe being more rash and emotional is it. The entire plan from the start of attacking without more men was very different from previous Jon.

...dammit. haha.

 

If thats actually what they're going for then thats cool, I just don't think this show has that sort of subtlety to it.

[Huckleberry]

The battle scene was awesome, seeing it from Jon's point of view where he gets smothered and is lucky no arrow is killing him, was a special way to show a battle scene. 

[K-9]

Holy freaking mackerel.

 

 

Somebody describe it as "medieval Saving Private Ryan" and I think that's perfect. I was suffocating watching it. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by K-9

[JohnRobertEichel]

When thinking about Jon's recklessness in the battle, also keep in mind that the Starks are known to be loyal, honorable, and principled to a fault. They are often naïve about how the world of Westeros really works, and it leads to their demise (Ned's beheading, Red Wedding, etc.). This notion of honor to a fault is a very important theme in the books and TV show. Sansa of the past season seems to be the only Stark bucking the trend.

 

Also, remember the character Beric Dondarrion of the Brotherhood without Banners....the guy with the eye patch who has died multiple times and has been brought back to life each time. He says something along the lines of how each time you return from the dead, you are changed a bit mentally and are not fully the same physically. Jon could be suffering from this effect.

 

Final remark about Jon Snow: I kind of like the fact that he is not some omnipotent God-like character and makes mistakes. In this case, he didn't heed Sansa's advice on Ramsay and let his emotions take over him. It seems like something most people might do in the heat of that moment.

[LGR4GM]

I...didn't really care for that episode. I'll give credit to the cinematography and directing; that battle scene did a very good job showing how a battle could have gone in that time. Except for the fact that both of the commanders were freaking idiots.

 

WTF is John Snow doing? I understand running after your brother. But then charging the line? By yourself? Abandoning the entire gameplan just because Ramsey did EXACTLY WHAT SANSA FREAKING TOLD YOU HE WOULD DO?!?! He killed his men. Its his fault they lost that many. If he had held his ground they could have held off Ramsey for a good while. I know he didn't know the Vale troops were coming, but he still got about 1000 men killed from being uncharacteristically rash.

 

They you have Ramsey who had 6000 troops at his disposal but didn't feel like putting 50 of them out as pickets/scouts and missed AN ENTIRE ARMY coming in. I'll accept the fact that he's hotheaded and egotistical, but clearly he has a mind for battle planning as that episode showed. Still, not nearly as egregious as Snow's stupidity.

 

It was also all very predictable, which is fine in and of itself, but I really think they did a disservice to John's character by making him go all berserker mode just to fit the story line.

 

I have other issues, but whatever. Hardhome was way better.

I agree. Jon Snow, Davos Seaworth, Tormund Giantsbane are all experienced fighters who have been in battle but they all get outwitted by Ramsey even after Sansa warns Jon. I loved the battle and thought it was filmed great but Jon Snow isn't that stupid and up to this point in the entirety of the books and show has never once flipped his and forgotten his duty. That ruined some of the episode for me. 

Furthermore Jon Snow hasn't seen his brother in what? 2-3 years and his brother was what? 10 years at least younger them him. How close could he possibly be to him?  It was lazy writing in my mind, they could have had Jon Snow lose that battle just by sheer numbers alone or some unforeseen trick by Ramsey, but Jon losing his mind and charging an entire army... come on now.

 

That said Jon killed 23 people according to the internet... 2 more and he would have gotten a free nuke. #CallOfDuty

[Rasmus_]

Who let the dogs out.....?  In all seriousness, it was a long overdue death for Ramses Bolton.  I enjoyed it, and while there may be things to nit-pick about, it was well done and sets up plenty of things for 6-10, and heading into season 7. 

[Hoss]

I disagree on all this nitpicking about Jon Snow's actions. He didn't charge the army, he was running because otherwise he would just sit there and watch his brother get killed.

He ran to get to him as soon as possible, then once he got out there he was exposed when Ramsey sent his soldiers in. I thought it was badass and well done. It's a world with dragons, people being revived from death and a girl whose necklace turns her from erection inflator to erection deflator. We can't believe that a man would act irrationally when he sees his brother get shot in the heart with an arrow?

The biggest, and really only, fault I saw in the show was that he just ran straight. If you gave anybody that big of a head start in a wide open field against even the best archer in the world I'm going to guess it'd be next to impossible for the archer to hit you.

[LGR4GM]

I disagree on all this nitpicking about Jon Snow's actions. He didn't charge the army, he was running because otherwise he would just sit there and watch his brother get killed.

He ran to get to him as soon as possible, then once he got out there he was exposed when Ramsey sent his soldiers in. I thought it was badass and well done. It's a ###### world with dragons, people being revived from death and a girl whose necklace turns her from erection inflator to erection deflator. We can't believe that a man would act irrationally when he sees his brother get shot in the heart with an arrow?

 

He had a horse, he could have turned around and ridden back out. 

 

He did not act irrationally when he was killed, when he saw his close friends killed, when he killed his close friend, when ygritte was killed. None of those events spurred him to act completely irrational but his 7 year old little half brother who he hasn't seen in 2-3 years makes him lose his mind and go suicidal... it just didn't fit the person Jon has been built into. Jon riding out to get him, perfect sense for the character. Jon charging headlong at an army because blind rage, nope. 

 

Also the dragons and revives and things are part of the world that was built. Jon Snow was built into that world as well. He has been shown angry and upset and even distraught but he has never reacted without first considering his duty.  He spends several episodes struggling with his feelings for ygritte because it goes against his duty. So for him to completely lose it after a brother he isn't even that connected to, after for instance he doesn't leave the wall when Robb is killed, it was out of character which is the issue. 

 

Highlights of that episode were Daenerys just not giving any f##ks. Sansa coming full circle to be a cold hard badass and of course an epically shot fight scene that I loved. 

[Doctor of Philhousley]

I would not have been a target for the Brian Campbell endorsed center of excessive sweating. Yet there I was, after the credits rolled, with pit stains that would make our away jersey's proud. 

[Hoss]

So there's also no chance that Jon has changed completely after a life-changing event? Being murdered is pretty life changing, right?

Since his death he has killed those responsible, given up his oath to the night's watch (got off on a technicality), ran straight into the face of danger to save his brother and beat Ramsey to a bloody pulp (he easily could have just stabbed him to end it). He only stopped for the look on Sansa's face (for his family).

 

This is a pattern of behavior. Jon seems fed up with the world he's in and the way it has resulted in so many wrongdoings against those he cares about most. He clearly cares about his family.

 

I also don't think it's a coincidence that Jon mentioned in this very episode that Ramsey's refusal to fight one-on-one for his own army could have a negative impact on his soldiers. What do you think Jon's soldiers might think if they watched Jon Snow, their commander, just sit there and watch his brother die running to him?

[K-9]

He had a horse, he could have turned around and ridden back out. 

 

He did not act irrationally when he was killed, when he saw his close friends killed, when he killed his close friend, when ygritte was killed. None of those events spurred him to act completely irrational but his 7 year old little half brother who he hasn't seen in 2-3 years makes him lose his mind and go suicidal... it just didn't fit the person Jon has been built into. Jon riding out to get him, perfect sense for the character. Jon charging headlong at an army because blind rage, nope. 

 

Also the dragons and revives and things are part of the world that was built. Jon Snow was built into that world as well. He has been shown angry and upset and even distraught but he has never reacted without first considering his duty.  He spends several episodes struggling with his feelings for ygritte because it goes against his duty. So for him to completely lose it after a brother he isn't even that connected to, after for instance he doesn't leave the wall when Robb is killed, it was out of character which is the issue. 

 

Highlights of that episode were Daenerys just not giving any f##ks. Sansa coming full circle to be a cold hard badass and of course an epically shot fight scene that I loved. 

You and qwk should start a blog. 

[LGR4GM]

So there's also no chance that Jon has changed completely after a life-changing event? Being murdered is pretty life changing, right?

Since his death he has killed those responsible, given up his oath to the night's watch (got off on a technicality), ran straight into the face of danger to save his brother and beat Ramsey to a bloody pulp (he easily could have just stabbed him to end it). He only stopped for the look on Sansa's face (for his family).

 

This is a pattern of behavior. Jon seems fed up with the world he's in and the way it has resulted in so many wrongdoings against those he cares about most. He clearly cares about his family.

 

I also don't think it's a coincidence that Jon mentioned in this very episode that Ramsey's refusal to fight one-on-one for his own army could have a negative impact on his soldiers. What do you think Jon's soldiers might think if they watched Jon Snow, their commander, just sit there and watch his brother die running to him?

I think his soldiers would have thought Jon charging into the enemy alone was stupid. You're hung up on the going to save his brother. Him riding out to save Rickon makes sense. Him being mad he didn't save him makes sense. Him losing his ###### and charging head first at an entire army, that does not make sense for his character. 

You and qwk should start a blog. 

Not really.  

I enjoyed the episode but I didn't enjoy that one particular part. I am not going to lose sleep over what Jon Snow did. Mofo killed 23 guys like a boss then beat Ramsey senseless.  

Edited June 20, 2016 by LGR4GM

[K-9]

I think his soldiers would have thought Jon charging into the enemy alone was stupid. You're hung up on the going to save his brother. Him riding out to save Rickon makes sense. Him being mad he didn't save him makes sense. Him losing his ###### and charging head first at an entire army, that does not make sense for his character. 

Not really.  

I enjoyed the episode but I didn't enjoy that one particular part. I am not going to lose sleep over what Jon Snow did. Mofo killed 23 guys like a boss then beat Ramsey senseless.  

I'm just joshin' ya. As you indicate, the only measure that ultimately matters is weather or not one enjoyed the episode. 

 

Regarding Jon's reckless charge to save Rickon, I thought it was great use of dramatic irony in that the night before, when he was drawing up battle plans, he made it a point to say he wanted Ramsay angry. As Tormund suggested when he uttered, "No, don't do it," when he saw Jon gearing up to charge alone, his men weren't on board when Jon completely disregarded the pincer tactics they planned. The important takeaway to me was that, to a man, they weren't about to let Jon go it alone. Given Jon's previous struggles to let reason rule over emotion, I didn't have any problem with the context of his decision to damn the torpedoes. 

[TrueBlueGED]

So there's also no chance that Jon has changed completely after a life-changing event? Being murdered is pretty life changing, right?

Since his death he has killed those responsible, given up his oath to the night's watch (got off on a technicality), ran straight into the face of danger to save his brother and beat Ramsey to a bloody pulp (he easily could have just stabbed him to end it). He only stopped for the look on Sansa's face (for his family).

 

This is a pattern of behavior. Jon seems fed up with the world he's in and the way it has resulted in so many wrongdoings against those he cares about most. He clearly cares about his family.

 

I also don't think it's a coincidence that Jon mentioned in this very episode that Ramsey's refusal to fight one-on-one for his own army could have a negative impact on his soldiers. What do you think Jon's soldiers might think if they watched Jon Snow, their commander, just sit there and watch his brother die running to him?

Agreed. We're seeing a much more aggressive Jon and I think it ties in nicely with his resurrection.

[Huckleberry]

I'm just joshin' ya. As you indicate, the only measure that ultimately matters is weather or not one enjoyed the episode. 

 

Regarding Jon's reckless charge to save Rickon, I thought it was great use of dramatic irony in that the night before, when he was drawing up battle plans, he made it a point to say he wanted Ramsay angry. As Tormund suggested when he uttered, "No, don't do it," when he saw Jon gearing up to charge alone, his men weren't on board when Jon completely disregarded the pincer tactics they planned. The important takeaway to me was that, to a man, they weren't about to let Jon go it alone. Given Jon's previous struggles to let reason rule over emotion, I didn't have any problem with the context of his decision to damn the torpedoes. 

 

Think they planned to avoid the pincer tactic being used on them.

[dudacek]

Has everybody seen these?

(Maybe they are already in the thread, but I'm too lazy to check.)

 

http://www.geekyjerseys.com/product.php?id=166

 

I think they have six different houses.

[TrueBlueGED]

Lady Mormont is the best addition to this show...ever? What a badass.

[drnkirishone]

it is happening!!!!! the theories are happening!!!!

[JohnRobertEichel]

Holy sh!tballs what a powerful episode! Cersei :o and Arya :o

Edited June 27, 2016 by FuhrFury