The other sports thread

[WildCard]

Just now, N S said:

For what it's worth.  I do not like the DH.

I believe that the NL is adament that they will keep it no matter what and there has been chater, from time to time, to eliminate it in the AL.

I believe this is the opposite. The NL is adamant they will keep it, yes, but the chatter has been the other way around. In a sport starving for younger viewers, they won't eliminate offense

[Sabres Fan in NS]

9 minutes ago, WildCard said:

I believe this is the opposite. The NL is adamant they will keep it, yes, but the chatter has been the other way around. In a sport starving for younger viewers, they won't eliminate offense

IMO, there is no way that the powers that be will ever order the NL to adopt the DH.  I think if they did the NL would split away and set up shop on it's own.  Kind of like the AFL and NFL prior to the merger.

[Sabel79]

1 minute ago, N S said:

IMO, there is no way that the powers that be will ever order the NL to adopt the DH.  I think if they did the NL would split away and set up shop on it's own.  Kind of like the AFL and NFL prior to the merger.

Nah, kicking and screaming, the inevitable atrocity will be inflicted upon us all and the DH will come to the NL in a few years.  At that point I will become the old guy calling in to sports talk radio shows railing against the modern era and watching the 1986 World Series on a loop.

[ubkev]

20 minutes ago, N S said:

For what it's worth.  I do not like the DH.

I believe that the NL is adament that they will keep it no matter what and there has been chater, from time to time, to eliminate it in the AL.

You think the union would let MLB put 15 players out of work? 15 players with the highest average salary? Nope! The DH is never going away.

[Eleven]

Just now, ubkev said:

You think the union would let MLB put 15 players out of work? 15 players with the highest average salary? Nope! The DH is never going away.

I don't think the AL will ever purge itself of this sin, but, for the sake of argument, how would it be putting 15 players out of work?  The rosters aren't going to shrink and neither would aggregate salaries.

[ubkev]

2 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I don't think the AL will ever purge itself of this sin, but, for the sake of argument, how would it be putting 15 players out of work?  The rosters aren't going to shrink and neither would aggregate salaries.

It's 15 current players who would no longer have a position. As of 2015 the DH was the highest paid position in baseball at 10.5 million per year. Fist basemen came in 2nd at 6.5 million and pitchers came in 3rd at 6.3 million. So now you have a player making 10.5 million who will negatively impact your team if you put him in the field, and now you have pitchers who negatively impact your lineup. And if the pitcher does manage to get on base you have a new set of problems. Like your boy Max Scherzer blowing out his achilles running out of the batters box. Or Chien Ming Wang effectively ending his career rounding 3rd. Or Masahiro Tanaka losing a month to a hamstring injury. Not to mention how much a pitchers ERA goes up in the half inning following him running the bases.

Everything about it is bad!

[Eleven]

1 minute ago, ubkev said:

It's 15 current players who would no longer have a position. As of 2015 the DH was the highest paid position in baseball at 10.5 million per year. Fist basemen came in 2nd at 6.5 million and pitchers came in 3rd at 6.3 million. So now you have a player making 10.5 million who will negatively impact your team if you put him in the field, and now you have pitchers who negatively impact your lineup. And if the pitcher does manage to get on base you have a new set of problems. Like your boy Max Scherzer blowing out his achilles running out of the batters box. Or Chien Ming Wang effectively ending his career rounding 3rd. Or Masahiro Tanaka losing a month to a hamstring injury. Not to mention how much a pitchers ERA goes up in the half inning following him running the bases.

Everything about it is bad!

As others have pointed out, anyone can be injured running the bases, including designated hitters.

The money the DHs make will be redistributed across rosters and 15 more players will simply take their places if they're so useless as ballplayers that they can't do anything but hit (and get injured running the bases because they're useless).

[Doohickie]

I'm actually a fan of the status quo.  I like that one league has the DH and the other doesn't.  It makes interleague play more interesting to me, seeing how teams from one league adapt to the rules of the other.

As for the DH being a set player, I don't see that in Texas.  Instead the DH has been used to get players into the lineup that aren't quite 100% due to injury, or to get younger players into the lineup (at least to bat) when there aren't enough field positions available.  The Rangers are pretty terrible this year but they've been playing a lot of younger players that are getting their first extended major league looks.  The youth movement was somewhat accidental as it was triggered by injuries to virtually their entire infield at different points in the season.  The Rangers have brought up a lot of young players and are trying to keep them up and give them significant playing time, a move that will make them a better team next year.  The DH gives the team the flexibility to work more position players into the lineup when there aren't enough positions to play.

I don't think this is typical for a lot of teams that have more settle rosters, just observing how the DH has been used by the Rangers this season.

Edited August 8, 2018 by Doohickie

[ubkev]

True, any player can be injured while running the bases. Gary Sanchez is a prime example. He's done it twice this year(might have something to do with catchers getting the hell beat out of them all season long, but I'll concede the baserunning point). But to me, when it happens to a pitcher it seems like a huge waste and it's sooo avoidable. You're asking a guy to throw 100 pitches and then go hit and run the bases. No other position in baseball is as demanding on the  body than Pitcher. Pitchers have been going down with season ending injuries every day and the NL adds another facet to the game that might add to that rate of injury. 

The NL can keep their automatic out in the lineup. I have no problem with that. But I absolutely hate interleague play! Leave my AL pichers alone! I'll sacrifice it for 3 games in the World Series, but not for a stupid July series with the freaking Phillies or the Mets.

[People] dig the long ball!

[Sabel79]

2 minutes ago, ubkev said:

 

[People] dig the long ball!

This is actually why baseball is dying.  The "three true outcomes" (home run, strikeout, walk) are dominating the game.  Hitters are so geared towards pulling the ball/hitting it in the air that the ridiculous shifts being used twice every inning are effective, strikeouts and home runs are up exponentially, pitchers aren't throwing to three guys in any given lineup.

The ball is in play so much less than it used to be, strategy and baserunning are afterthoughts, and the product is just awful.  I still watch because I love the game, but man.  Getting hard. 

[ubkev]

2 minutes ago, Sabel79 said:

This is actually why baseball is dying.  The "three true outcomes" (home run, strikeout, walk) are dominating the game.  Hitters are so geared towards pulling the ball/hitting it in the air that the ridiculous shifts being used twice every inning are effective, strikeouts and home runs are up exponentially, pitchers aren't throwing to three guys in any given lineup.

The ball is in play so much less than it used to be, strategy and baserunning are afterthoughts, and the product is just awful.  I still watch because I love the game, but man.  Getting hard. 

Hey man, you're preaching to the choir. I love batting avg.! I was a pretty damn good ballplayer my whole life, even got my shot once upon a time. I batted well over .400 for my highschool and legion ball career. And I viewed a strikeout as a completely unacceptable outcome. I was so embarrassed if I struck out. Trouble was, I had no power at all. A true singles hitter. 

Joe DiMaggio struck out 13 times in 139 games in 1941. He also hit 30 home runs and led the league with 125 RBI. 

Mickey Mantle batted .237 in 1968(his final season) dropping his career avg to .298. he said it made him want to puke.

Hank Aaron played 23 years and never struck out 100 times in a season.

[inkman]

 

[Eleven]

58 minutes ago, Sabel79 said:

This is actually why baseball is dying.  The "three true outcomes" (home run, strikeout, walk) are dominating the game.  Hitters are so geared towards pulling the ball/hitting it in the air that the ridiculous shifts being used twice every inning are effective, strikeouts and home runs are up exponentially, pitchers aren't throwing to three guys in any given lineup.

The ball is in play so much less than it used to be, strategy and baserunning are afterthoughts, and the product is just awful.  I still watch because I love the game, but man.  Getting hard. 

Excellent point.

[LTS]

2 hours ago, ubkev said:

Giancarlo Stanton plays both corner outfield positions and it's a pretty good right fielder. He also has an off the charts ISO and his wRC+ is Hall of Fame worthy. So, if he keeps his career on this path...yeah, dead lock for the Hall.

Meh.. he's listed as a DH on the site I looked at for stats.  Like I said.. baseball is irrelevant to me.  The Yankees even more so.

ISO = International Standards Organization or In Search Of?

 

[ubkev]

7 minutes ago, LTS said:

Meh.. he's listed as a DH on the site I looked at for stats.  Like I said.. baseball is irrelevant to me.  The Yankees even more so.

ISO = International Standards Organization or In Search Of?

 

Isolated power. It's a fun metric for hitters. Let's you know who's a punch & Judy hitter and who can really mash.

[Sabel79]

On 7/18/2018 at 1:54 PM, ubkev said:

North Carolina's Fedora: If football changes too much, U.S. will decline
https://www.thescore.com/ncaaf/news/1572512

Warning: dumbest thing I've read all day.

Watching watching Mets-Yankees right now.  Will reiterate the same anti-yankee complaint I always make when my eyes hit new, or old Yankee Stadium... 

From Babe Ruth to Aaron Judge... play half your games in a little league field and your accomplishments are diminished.  Seriously, the field I played on in high school was 30 feet deeper down the lines...

 

Edited August 14, 2018 by Sabel79
typo

[Taro T]

If the pitcher doesn't have to bat, why does the shortstop?  He's there nearly exclusively to field the ball as he is the best fielder & there's a reason that in the NL he usually bats 8th.  And if the pitcher & SS don't have to bat, why should the 2nd baseman?  Etc, etc.

[Hoss]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

If the pitcher doesn't have to bat, why does the shortstop?  He's there nearly exclusively to field the ball as he is the best fielder & there's a reason that in the NL he usually bats 8th.  And if the pitcher & SS don't have to bat, why should the 2nd baseman?  Etc, etc.

Fielding a handful of balls a game is not comparable to throwing upwards of 120 pitches. The preparation for the two is entirely different and pitchers exist to pitch above all else.

I can see an argument on either side, but I don’t see this reasoning being one of them.

[Wyldnwoody44]

It's time for my multi-annual bashing of baseball, it's boooorrring, no matter who bats. 

I think it's time to add some other sports to the other sports thread, maybe a summary of the Mississippi watermelon seed spitting championships? 

[Eleven]

5 hours ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

It's time for my multi-annual bashing of baseball, it's boooorrring, no matter who bats. 

I think it's time to add some other sports to the other sports thread, maybe a summary of the Mississippi watermelon seed spitting championships? 

Go for it.  There's no need to stick to baseball in here.

But speaking of it, Zobrist was tossed yesterday for telling an umpire "this is why we want electronic strike zones," which I think is hilarious.

[Hoss]

Baseball sucks because of a refusal to change.

Chop the season to 120 games max.

Pitch clock.

Limit bullpens to where a pitcher has to pitch to at least two batters (doesn’t have to get two outs but two batters). If a pitcher comes out before this due to injury they have to miss the next two scheduled games.

One mound visit per two innings unless to check on injury. Catcher counts as one. Calls to the bullpen are done from the dugout.

Kill the defensive shift (I’m borderline on this one but recently joined the kill them party).

You get extra runs for a bat flip. (Just kidding)

 

A player recently got hounded and needed to apologize because he did a bat flip when he hit a bases-juiced walk off home run on the last strike on the last out for his team to win 4-3.

[WildCard]

Chop the games, limit the mound and pen I like, but other than that I disagree with what you have

Pitch clock: Really does nothing

Shift: Hit it the other way, it really isn't hard to figure out

Bat Flip: Just kidding, I love this

I do hate, hate, HATE, the old 'unwritten rules' of baseball. it's a game; let the bat flips happen, the trash talk, the walk off pimp strut, all of it. Quit making baseball a sport of the 1920's, a 'gentleman' sport. Just play and make the game fun dammit

 

And for the record, baseball doesn't suck. And if people don't like it, it's not for any of those reasons. Really it boils down to why people don't like soccer; it's too slow for them. Which is fine, I get that. But like soccer, baseball is just a massive chess match. In order to really like baseball, you have to understand what's going on in an at bat, why the count dictates the pitch, what kind of hitter this is, what the bullpens are planning, etc. In order to really like soccer, you have to understand what a run is, why they're passing it backwards all the way to their goalie, what exactly it is they're trying to set up. And if you don't, well both sports are going to seem extremely boring and stupid to you

 

[Hoss]

Albert Pujols is one of the greatest hitters of this generation and the shift has killed the end of his career. If he can’t beat the shift then the argument to “just hit it the other way” dies. Especially with modern pitching. It’s not as easy for batters to just pick their spots anymore.

Other sports have similar restrictions. I’d compare it to line of scrimmage rules in football, offsides in Hockey and soccer, 3-seconds in basketball.

[WildCard]

7 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Albert Pujols is one of the greatest hitters of this generation and the shift has killed the end of his career. If he can’t beat the shift then the argument to “just hit it the other way” dies. Especially with modern pitching. It’s not as easy for batters to just pick their spots anymore.

Other sports have similar restrictions. I’d compare it to line of scrimmage rules in football, offsides in Hockey and soccer, 3-seconds in basketball.

What killed his career was he got old (and possibly steroids)

[Hoss]

23 minutes ago, WildCard said:

What killed his career was he got old (and possibly steroids)

There’s no indication of steroids and he actually hasn’t really slowed down. The shift has just been used exponentially more.

From ESPN:

From 2015 to 2018, Pujols has accumulated a whopping 403 hard-hit outs, putting balls in play that travel at least 95 mph. Nobody has more. His average exit velocity is 90.3 mph, ranked fourth among those with at least 1,700 batted balls during that stretch, according to Statcast. His batting average on balls in play is .245, tied for the lowest in the majors among qualified hitters during that time.

 

In the same article he suggests at least one simple fix: don’t allow second baseman to play directly up the middle. It’s done to intentionally block the batter’s ability to recognize pitches coming out of the pitcher’s hand. It’s like face guarding in basketball which is no longer legal.