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Regier Looking to Deal: LeBrun


HopefulFuture

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I don't see how Regier yanked around Hasek and Kozlov. Hasek is my favorite Sabre of all time, but he basically held the franchise hostage and made them trade him for pennies on the dollar. Kozlov clearly never wanted to be here, a la Carter in Columbus. No argument on the other names mentioned.

 

No...you're right that it was more them wanting out of the hellhole. I guess the only thing to knock Regier for on that is pisspoor returns on trades.

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Oh for God's sake. There is enough valid material to criticize DR about without making stuff up. It's been pretty well established that that particular debacle was TG's doing.

 

For the record, I am ready to can DR. I find the fact that the team was floundering a month ago and clearly needed a shakeup, and he let it go for another month, which effectively torpedoed the season, enough to get me there. I would love to be proven wrong, but at this point I am ready to say it: DR must go.

I don't see how Regier yanked around Hasek and Kozlov. Hasek is my favorite Sabre of all time, but he basically held the franchise hostage and made them trade him for pennies on the dollar. Kozlov clearly never wanted to be here, a la Carter in Columbus. No argument on the other names mentioned.

 

Why let facts get in the way, even when there really is enough ammo?

 

Forget it, he's on a roll.

 

Yeah, Germans, Pearl Harbor, etc.

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I don't care who was giving the orders.....Regier carried them out. Any person capable of F'ing over his own player and who can not be trusted, no matter who he is doing the biding for....is not of high character. Time and time again stories have come out how Darcy values his job security and salary over doing the high character thing. Look what he did to Drury, to Teppo, all the players who have left with a grudge after getting yanked around (Peca, Dumont, Briere, Hasek, Kozlov, Grier, Drury, Gilmour).

 

If you are willing to carry out orders for a scumbag.....you, yourself are a scumbag. Especially when you rake in $1 million+ a year.

 

How many times did Darcy tell the fans with a straight face that they were doing all they could to win a cup?

 

Darcy is a survivor, plain and simple. Do the bare bones minnimum and not make waves in order to keep your job. He never intended to win a Stanley Cup. His intentions were to never make a mistake big enough of his own doing to get blamed and fired. Look at all the transactions or lack of transactions he has flubbed, but people pass it off to Quinn. Again...if that is the case....he is a puppet, and true GM's who have pride and balls are going to look down on him. And when Darcy "doesn't need them" and ignores them because he is happy in his own little world of mediocrity.....people are going to have little pity on him when he takes his first real chance and fails miserably.

 

Will Darcy kick your dog and steal your lawn equipment? No. But to hold him as this sweet little man who is a saint is folly. He is nice in that he isn't an aggressive manipulator. He is just a survivor, plain and simple.

 

Please name a single example of a GM who quit his job because he wasn't happy with carrying out the owner's marching orders.

 

As for the "facts" underlying your rant -- if Teppo felt that DR were a scumbag, would he have accepted a job working for him? How about Peca, who is now back in the organization? How about Grier, who also came back? Unlike us, these guys were on the inside and had the benefit of real information and real interactions with DR -- and they were OK with freely deciding to work for him again.

 

As for Briere, he wanted to stay here, and the Sabres decided to let him go. It was a terrible decision, but let's remember that if they had been acute enough to give him the offer in time, he would have signed it -- and that was AFTER his arbitration hearing. If DR were the guy you're painting him to be, would Briere have wanted to stay? For that matter, the same is true of Drury -- he was ready to stay until they bailed on him.

 

Furthermore, I think there's quite a leap from the actions that have been attributed to TG/LQ/DR, even if all of them were true, and being a scumbag.

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Please name a single example of a GM who quit his job because he wasn't happy with carrying out the owner's marching orders.

 

As for the "facts" underlying your rant -- if Teppo felt that DR were a scumbag, would he have accepted a job working for him? How about Peca, who is now back in the organization? How about Grier, who also came back? Unlike us, these guys were on the inside and had the benefit of real information and real interactions with DR -- and they were OK with freely deciding to work for him again.

 

As for Briere, he wanted to stay here, and the Sabres decided to let him go. It was a terrible decision, but let's remember that if they had been acute enough to give him the offer in time, he would have signed it -- and that was AFTER his arbitration hearing. If DR were the guy you're painting him to be, would Briere have wanted to stay? For that matter, the same is true of Drury -- he was ready to stay until they bailed on him.

 

Furthermore, I think there's quite a leap from the actions that have been attributed to TG/LQ/DR, even if all of them were true, and being a scumbag.

 

Again, Darcy is not a manipulative scumbag. He is however willing to say what he needs to say and do unsavory things in order to keep his job.

 

Dozens of GM's step down. I don't know who has because they felt they were a puppet in the NHL. I see it in the business world all the time and have done so myself. Brian Burke stepped down from the Ducks even though they wanted him and took a break knowing full well he would get another job no problem. Sutter did it this year. The thing with Darcy is he has to know deep down nobody is going to hire him as GM so he needs to cling to Buffalo.

 

Darcy himself knows he is not one of the "big boys". How many times has he talked about "the market". He always reacts to the trade market in particular. He never wants to be the one to set it for fear of overpaying. He overpaid for some free agents....but Pegula had the cash to spend. You could have had a guy we thought Gaustad might be in Talbot for less than $2 million at a position of need. He chose who he chose. And the way he got all sqwirmy about making sure everyone knew Dominic Moore was "His deal" and not Burke's......I truly think in Darcy's head he knows he is an outsider in the GM fraternity. He isn't a backslapper and a whiskey drinker....and you don't have to be.....but it would almost be like Jhonas Enroth getting Marty Brodeur to sign 10 things for him before the NJ game tomorrow. You are his peer and his equal now.....you have every right to set the standard and be a player.....but Darcy is more an accountant who happens to like hockey.

 

Peca, Grier, teppo...when the cash stops coming in, and your house and brokerage statements lose 40% in a few years.....you tend to smooth things over. I can't say for sure, but it was obvious Grier had no other options to play.

 

Briere.....that's the point. Darcy always has a chance to keep things smooth, but for a few hundred grand he ruins things. Briere would have signed....then Darcy held Briere going to arb against Dumont and let HIM walk, Meanwhile he was writing bloated contracts for Jochen and Max and all his other minions he so dearly loves. Briere knew he was gone mid-season.

 

Maybe scumbag is a harsh word.....but I think upfront people who value their own talents and the talent needed for the GM position have a hard time respecting Regier. He has made scumbag moves in the name of ownership. If he had character, he would be upfront with these guys. Too many have LEFT in a tizzy and were not dealt with in a candid fashion.

 

You can think of him as you want...and yes he has a poor enough track record with recent results to justify a change. but I am just telling you how other GM's could easily smirk at his soon to be fate.

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Having never heard me talk in person before.....I think you read my posts all wrong.

 

Try This:

 

Read my post in the voice and cadence of Darcy Regier. Seriously. Try it.

 

That goes for anyone else who thinks I drink a shot of 151 and hold out an extended flame towards a kitten and spit, as I make a post.

 

And?

 

GO SABRES!!!

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Having never heard me talk in person before.....I think you read my posts all wrong.

 

Try This:

 

Read my post in the voice and cadence of Darcy Regier. Seriously. Try it.

 

That goes for anyone else who thinks I drink a shot of 151 and hold out an extended flame towards a kitten and spit, as I make a post.

 

That's actually how I read all of your posts. :ph34r:

 

That said, I do read them.

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Again, Darcy is not a manipulative scumbag. He is however willing to say what he needs to say and do unsavory things in order to keep his job.

 

Dozens of GM's step down. I don't know who has because they felt they were a puppet in the NHL. I see it in the business world all the time and have done so myself. Brian Burke stepped down from the Ducks even though they wanted him and took a break knowing full well he would get another job no problem. Sutter did it this year. The thing with Darcy is he has to know deep down nobody is going to hire him as GM so he needs to cling to Buffalo.

 

Darcy himself knows he is not one of the "big boys". How many times has he talked about "the market". He always reacts to the trade market in particular. He never wants to be the one to set it for fear of overpaying. He overpaid for some free agents....but Pegula had the cash to spend. You could have had a guy we thought Gaustad might be in Talbot for less than $2 million at a position of need. He chose who he chose. And the way he got all sqwirmy about making sure everyone knew Dominic Moore was "His deal" and not Burke's......I truly think in Darcy's head he knows he is an outsider in the GM fraternity. He isn't a backslapper and a whiskey drinker....and you don't have to be.....but it would almost be like Jhonas Enroth getting Marty Brodeur to sign 10 things for him before the NJ game tomorrow. You are his peer and his equal now.....you have every right to set the standard and be a player.....but Darcy is more an accountant who happens to like hockey.

 

Peca, Grier, teppo...when the cash stops coming in, and your house and brokerage statements lose 40% in a few years.....you tend to smooth things over. I can't say for sure, but it was obvious Grier had no other options to play.

 

Briere.....that's the point. Darcy always has a chance to keep things smooth, but for a few hundred grand he ruins things. Briere would have signed....then Darcy held Briere going to arb against Dumont and let HIM walk, Meanwhile he was writing bloated contracts for Jochen and Max and all his other minions he so dearly loves. Briere knew he was gone mid-season.

 

Maybe scumbag is a harsh word.....but I think upfront people who value their own talents and the talent needed for the GM position have a hard time respecting Regier. He has made scumbag moves in the name of ownership. If he had character, he would be upfront with these guys. Too many have LEFT in a tizzy and were not dealt with in a candid fashion.

 

You can think of him as you want...and yes he has a poor enough track record with recent results to justify a change. but I am just telling you how other GM's could easily smirk at his soon to be fate.

 

Kinda hard to square the bolded part (especially the "again") with this:

 

If you are willing to carry out orders for a scumbag.....you, yourself are a scumbag. Especially when you rake in $1 million+ a year.

 

As for Burke, he left because he wanted the Leafs job. This is pretty well established -- and well in keeping with Burke's appreciation of media attention. Sutter was forced out due to incompetence -- he certainly didn't leave out of principal. Also well established. And frankly I don't think "dozens of GMs step down." I think it almost never happens, because for most GMs it is their dream job -- and certainly not because a GM gets PO'd about being overruled or budgeted by the owner. Again, if you have examples (or even one) to the contrary, please fire away.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you are right about Peca's finances and perhaps Grier's. I'd be surprised if this were true of Teppo, but it could be the case. Of course, there is no evidence whatsoever to support this -- so you're really just supporting one piece of speculation about DR with other pieces of speculation about those guys.

 

The Briere/Dumont arbitration theory doesn't hold water at all -- why would DR (or TG/LQ for that matter) hold Briere's arbitration against Dumont? Of course, I could see TG/LQ holding Dumont's arbitration against Dumont -- I think this is what happened with Kennedy as well. The real issue with Briere's deal was far from "a few hundred grand" -- it was $25MM for an owner who had never come close spending that kind of cash on a contract before.

 

I don't doubt that other GMs are smirking at his predicament, but I do doubt that it's because of the reasons you mentioned. As I posted elsewhere, I think it's mostly due to envy/resentment of TP charging in and throwing piles of money around, along with the competitive angle and other GMs/team executives having an axe to grind and an easy way to do so anonymously.

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That's actually how I read all of your posts. :ph34r:

 

That said, I do read them.

 

I actually tried doing so after I said to do it and laughed out loud. It's impossible.

 

I just try and give my viewpoint. I don't hate anybody. I just want to win something someday. We aren't picking on the baker at Dickie's Donuts who is making $28K a year and saying he can't make a coconut glaze worth a crap. We are talking about management and players who probably have net worth more than 99% of the posters here.

 

Kinda hard to square the bolded part (especially the "again") with this:

 

 

 

As for Burke, he left because he wanted the Leafs job. This is pretty well established -- and well in keeping with Burke's appreciation of media attention. Sutter was forced out due to incompetence -- he certainly didn't leave out of principal. Also well established. And frankly I don't think "dozens of GMs step down." I think it almost never happens, because for most GMs it is their dream job -- and certainly not because a GM gets PO'd about being overruled or budgeted by the owner. Again, if you have examples (or even one) to the contrary, please fire away.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you are right about Peca's finances and perhaps Grier's. I'd be surprised if this were true of Teppo, but it could be the case. Of course, there is no evidence whatsoever to support this -- so you're really just supporting one piece of speculation about DR with other pieces of speculation about those guys.

 

The Briere/Dumont arbitration theory doesn't hold water at all -- why would DR (or TG/LQ for that matter) hold Briere's arbitration against Dumont? Of course, I could see TG/LQ holding Dumont's arbitration against Dumont -- I think this is what happened with Kennedy as well. The real issue with Briere's deal was far from "a few hundred grand" -- it was $25MM for an owner who had never come close spending that kind of cash on a contract before.

 

I don't doubt that other GMs are smirking at his predicament, but I do doubt that it's because of the reasons you mentioned. As I posted elsewhere, I think it's mostly due to envy/resentment of TP charging in and throwing piles of money around, along with the competitive angle and other GMs/team executives having an axe to grind and an easy way to do so anonymously.

 

Muckler left.....Nolan was offered a contract. It takes a special person to throw their pride in the crapper.

 

Everything is speculation. We know NOTHING about ANYBODY but ourselves....and after reading the denial on this board at times over the years, I'm not so sure everyone knows themselves too well either.

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I just try and give my viewpoint. I don't hate anybody. I just want to win something someday. We aren't picking on the baker at Dickie's Donuts who is making $28K a year and saying he can't make a coconut glaze worth a crap. We are talking about management and players who probably have net worth more than 99% of the posters here.

 

A baker at Dickie's Donuts makes $28k a year? Hmmm...I like donuts.

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Darcy isn't a "scumbag" and neither was Quinn or Golisano for that matter. They were businessmen owning and operating a sports franchise business. I'm sure in real life, away from the business, they might be great guys to sit and have a beer with.

 

But what Darcy is, and what I think GoDD is meaning to say, is that Darcy is a puppet of a GM. He is willing to sit there and have his strings pulled by his superiors in order to keep his job. He won't stand up and say no, and won't stand up and say he can't do his job with the "shackles" that were supposedly put on him by Golisano.

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Darcy isn't a "scumbag" and neither was Quinn or Golisano for that matter. They were businessmen owning and operating a sports franchise business. I'm sure in real life, away from the business, they might be great guys to sit and have a beer with.

 

But what Darcy is, and what I think GoDD is meaning to say, is that Darcy is a puppet of a GM. He is willing to sit there and have his strings pulled by his superiors in order to keep his job. He won't stand up and say no, and won't stand up and say he can't do his job with the "shackles" that were supposedly put on him by Golisano.

 

I agree that GoDD was calling DR a puppet (among other accusations). My point is simply that it's easy to be brave with someone else's job and that GMs almost never walk away voluntarily, and I will say again: if anyone can point to a single example of a GM leaving because he was PO'd about being overruled or budgeted by the owner, let's hear it.

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I agree that GoDD was calling DR a puppet (among other accusations). My point is simply that it's easy to be brave with someone else's job and that GMs almost never walk away voluntarily, and I will say again: if anyone can point to a single example of a GM leaving because he was PO'd about being overruled or budgeted by the owner, let's hear it.

That is true, its easier to be an arm chair GM/Coach then to actually be in that position and have to make the deals. We can all say that someone should trade player 'X' for PLayer 'Y' etc.

 

And its true that very rarely, do you ever see a coach or GM walk away from their job because they feel they are being held back, but that still doesn't mean that Darcy Isn't a puppet, which I have been saying for a long time when everyone was saying he was being "shackled" by the previous ownership

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I agree that GoDD was calling DR a puppet (among other accusations). My point is simply that it's easy to be brave with someone else's job and that GMs almost never walk away voluntarily, and I will say again: if anyone can point to a single example of a GM leaving because he was PO'd about being overruled or budgeted by the owner, let's hear it.

 

I'm not taking sides in this, but ... Jay Feaster.

 

Shortly after, in 1998, he received a call from Tampa Bay Lightning general Manager, Jacques Demers, who offered him a position as the team's assistant general manager. Feaster accepted, and quickly took over contractual and legal matters for the organization.[2] He continued in that position through the tenures of Demers and Rick Dudley until he was promoted as Dudley's replacement in February 2002.[3] Under Feaster's management, the Lightning won consecutive Southeast Division titles in 2003 and 2004. In the 2003–04 NHL season, the Lightning won the first Stanley Cup in franchise history while The Sporting News named Feaster as the league's executive of the year.[1] Feaster remained general manager until 2008, when he grew frustrated at interference in the team's hockey operations by the Lightning's new owners Len Barrie and Oren Koules.[2] He had three years remaining on his contract with the Lightning when he announced his resignation.

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I'm not taking sides in this, but ... Jay Feaster.

 

Shortly after, in 1998, he received a call from Tampa Bay Lightning general Manager, Jacques Demers, who offered him a position as the team's assistant general manager. Feaster accepted, and quickly took over contractual and legal matters for the organization.[2] He continued in that position through the tenures of Demers and Rick Dudley until he was promoted as Dudley's replacement in February 2002.[3] Under Feaster's management, the Lightning won consecutive Southeast Division titles in 2003 and 2004. In the 2003–04 NHL season, the Lightning won the first Stanley Cup in franchise history while The Sporting News named Feaster as the league's executive of the year.[1] Feaster remained general manager until 2008, when he grew frustrated at interference in the team's hockey operations by the Lightning's new owners Len Barrie and Oren Koules.[2] He had three years remaining on his contract with the Lightning when he announced his resignation.

 

Thank you.

 

Dozens of GMs step down in all sports and I am sure some do so because of interference.

 

The key is you have to believe in yourself enough to make a tough choice. I'm sure it doesn't always work out positive in the $$ side....but sometimes character and pride are worth more than dollars.

 

Does anyone here honestly think Regier would get hired as GM of another team? Any team? Ruff is good enough to get snapped up and he will probably have a choice of a few places to go.

 

That's why he never stepped down. I'm sure in his own head he knows how lucky he is to have a job like that. He could be a VP of scouting somewhere maybe, but to have control of operations......???

 

Hey...Mike Mularkey eventually got another head coaching job, so you never know.

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Everything is speculation. We know NOTHING about ANYBODY but ourselves....and after reading the denial on this board at times over the years, I'm not so sure everyone knows themselves too well either.

 

No. There is certainly plenty of spin out there, but there is also enough evidence on certain items to be comfortable that some things are facts. When there is no evidence, though, you don't get to pass off your speculation as fact. Not without getting called on it.

 

I'm not taking sides in this, but ... Jay Feaster.

 

Shortly after, in 1998, he received a call from Tampa Bay Lightning general Manager, Jacques Demers, who offered him a position as the team's assistant general manager. Feaster accepted, and quickly took over contractual and legal matters for the organization.[2] He continued in that position through the tenures of Demers and Rick Dudley until he was promoted as Dudley's replacement in February 2002.[3] Under Feaster's management, the Lightning won consecutive Southeast Division titles in 2003 and 2004. In the 2003–04 NHL season, the Lightning won the first Stanley Cup in franchise history while The Sporting News named Feaster as the league's executive of the year.[1] Feaster remained general manager until 2008, when he grew frustrated at interference in the team's hockey operations by the Lightning's new owners Len Barrie and Oren Koules.[2] He had three years remaining on his contract with the Lightning when he announced his resignation.

 

This is a reasonable point, but I would argue that the TB situation was enough of a circus that it was qualitatively different from the Sabres' (and just about every other NHL) situation. Also, they effectively brought in their own GM in Lawton and didn't fire Feaster -- most likely because they didn't want to pay out his contract. Still, I asked for an example and you delivered it, so good on ya.

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I don't care who was giving the orders.....Regier carried them out. Any person capable of F'ing over his own player and who can not be trusted, no matter who he is doing the biding for....is not of high character. Time and time again stories have come out how Darcy values his job security and salary over doing the high character thing. Look what he did to Drury, to Teppo, all the players who have left with a grudge after getting yanked around (Peca, Dumont, Briere, Hasek, Kozlov, Grier, Drury, Gilmour).

 

If you are willing to carry out orders for a scumbag.....you, yourself are a scumbag. Especially when you rake in $1 million+ a year.

 

How many times did Darcy tell the fans with a straight face that they were doing all they could to win a cup?

 

 

 

Ok, so, let me get this straight... if offered $1m+/year to do exactly what the previous owners of the Sabres required you to do, you'd turn down that job? If you answer yes, you'd turn the job down for your high moral character, you are so full of S**T you stink. Get off the high horse.

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Ok, so, let me get this straight... if offered $1m+/year to do exactly what the previous owners of the Sabres required you to do, you'd turn down that job? If you answer yes, you'd turn the job down for your high moral character, you are so full of S**T you stink. Get off the high horse.

 

I'm not a moderator and you make a good point, but I don't think you needed to add the bolded BS. I also do not think you, or anyone else for that matter, should be judging someones character. Many posters here are speculating about DR's character. I have never seen anyone question another posters character on this board.

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I'm not a moderator and you make a good point, but I don't think you needed to add the bolded BS. I also do not think you, or anyone else for that matter, should be judging someones character. Many posters here are speculating about DR's character. I have never seen anyone question another posters character on this board.

 

Just their intelligence.

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Thank you.

 

Dozens of GMs step down in all sports and I am sure some do so because of interference.

 

The key is you have to believe in yourself enough to make a tough choice. I'm sure it doesn't always work out positive in the $$ side....but sometimes character and pride are worth more than dollars.

 

Does anyone here honestly think Regier would get hired as GM of another team? Any team? Ruff is good enough to get snapped up and he will probably have a choice of a few places to go.

 

That's why he never stepped down. I'm sure in his own head he knows how lucky he is to have a job like that. He could be a VP of scouting somewhere maybe, but to have control of operations......???

 

Hey...Mike Mularkey eventually got another head coaching job, so you never know.

 

I don't see why a team in the Columbus mold wouldn't mind giving him a shot. He has shown a good eye for talent at the prospect level. If you're trying to build up your system from scratch, he would be an asset there. Hiring Regier doesn't mean you have to keep him for 15 years.

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No. There is certainly plenty of spin out there, but there is also enough evidence on certain items to be comfortable that some things are facts. When there is no evidence, though, you don't get to pass off your speculation as fact. Not without getting called on it.

 

OK....the same thing was being said to me and Tom Webster when we were telling people Golisano and Quinn had the team up for sale and Quinn took the equity and was just waiting to get vested at long term gain rates. Speculation only gets proven fact in the long run if at all.

 

You have to look at it this way.

 

Fighter Pilot vs. Cargo Pilot

COMEX Trader vs. Financial Planner

Neurologist vs. Podiatrist

NHL GM vs. Accountant with some scouting ability

 

 

The second column isn't bad at all. Having a certain skill set or good work ethic at any job is all that anyone can ask. Everyone has different interests and chances. But these jobs in particular......the best at their job in the first group usually have a different mindset than the second group. They may have the same interests, degrees, and much of the same training up to a certain point.......but you have to be willing to risk you a$$ in the first group. You almost have to be a little "off" to really thrive in that surrounding.

 

You can hear the chip on Darcy's shoulder when he speaks at times. He is really someone in the second group that was forced into duty in the first group. Think of a podiatrist delivering a baby on an airplane......or Randy Quaid fighting the spaceship in Independence Day. Larry Quinn needed someone who he knew wouldn't question him and let him get his agenda through. Especially the 2nd go around.

 

It's like a lot of people I guess. Once you are used to a certain lifestyle....you hate to give it up and are probably willing to do a few things to make sure you can keep it up. You say Burke had the Leafs job if he wanted it and that's why he left the Ducks. OK.....who has a GM job waiting for Darcy? Who, if they have one open up will have him at the top of the list?

 

By the way....the job of a GM.......IS...to speculate. And have strong opinions in doing so. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it ends with Jochen Hecht as your #1 center.

 

Ok, so, let me get this straight... if offered $1m+/year to do exactly what the previous owners of the Sabres required you to do, you'd turn down that job? If you answer yes, you'd turn the job down for your high moral character, you are so full of S**T you stink. Get off the high horse.

 

You would be suprised what people with character will turn down or give up if people aren't treated right. I think that may be the problem. I just see things differently than many.

 

There would be no way I could co-exist with someone like Quinn for the amount of time Darcy did.

 

I already said I would take the Sabres current GM for $150,000 base pay and would expect my pay to double for each playoff series my team and the coach I choose, win, that given year.

 

I don't see why a team in the Columbus mold wouldn't mind giving him a shot. He has shown a good eye for talent at the prospect level. If you're trying to build up your system from scratch, he would be an asset there. Hiring Regier doesn't mean you have to keep him for 15 years.

 

That is not a horrible point. If you are starting from scratch and need a bunch of young kids brought in over 3 years and your operation has no standard set. But really.....30 of 30 is probably his only interview.

 

Darcy can scout and is good with numbers. He is not an invalid. He could probably make $250K somewhere as a VP of player development.

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