Beck Malenstyn's Goal shows us that...

[matter2003]

Often hear people who are great at pickup basketball say they could take NBA players who are bench players that never play, but then get absolutely crushed by them in a "no-contest" type way when they get a chance to play them.

That reminded me of Malenstyn scoring on that play...while there are probably a lot of people that think they are way better players and scorers in their leagues than someone like Malenstyn who is a 4th line player, the truth is he would dominate them and their league and score at will, like 5-10 goals a game any game he wanted. 

The difference in offensive skill between the best "pickup" hockey players and NHL 4th liners is still night and day and I think we forget that sometimes.

Edited 2 hours ago by matter2003

[Doohickie]

Even Matt Ellis would skate circles around anyone that posts on this forum.

[mjd1001]

It kind of reminds me of the discussion that comes up... Could the best college football team beat the worst NFL team? 

Could the best Alabama team of the decade beat the Detroit Lions when they were owing 16? 

There are people who argue. Yes, the college team could win and I think that's crazy. 

I think those games would probably be 70 to nothing... Depending on how hard the NFL team wanted to try.

Oftentimes the very best college teams of all time will have 10% or less of their roster that is drafted into the NFL, and many of those players may or may not even make an impact. Not to mention they practice less, they have less complicated schemes, it all matters. 

I agree with your original point, and it just made me think of that argument I just listed above.

[LETSTUCHINGO]

The fact that this point has to be made is a sad state of affairs!

[Amerks8796]

Figured it was common knowledge. But I played a floor hockey game about 15-20 years ago at the facility in Rochester in East Ridge Rd. I was young then, and so were my teammates. We all played competitive travel hockey, but weren't good enough to play over division 3 hockey. Anyway, out comes a team with guys like Scott Metcalfe, Jody Gage, Randy Cunneyworth, Scott Nichol etc. Nichol may have still been playing but everyone else was retired. The way they dismantled us was comical. We were younger and faster but the precision they had with the puck really drove home just how good pros are, even guys who don't make it past the AHL. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Amerks8796

[Pimlach]

The NBA active roster for a game is only 12 to 15 players.  NBA backups would absolutely destroy non NBA players.  

Dahlin laughed and said he knew Malenstyn had some really good skills.   

Many NHL 4th liners were once high skill players.  I knew a guy that played youth hockey against Adam Mair and said he would score double digit goals pretty much every game and just dominate everybody.    

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, Amerks8796 said:

Figured it was common knowledge. But I played a floor hockey game about 15-20 years ago at the facility in Rochester in East Ridge Rd. I was young then, and so were my teammates. We all played competitive travel hockey, but weren't good enough to play over division 3 hockey. Anyway, out comes a team with guys like Scott Metcalfe, Jody Gage, Randy Cunneyworth, Scott Nichol etc. Nichol may have still been playing but everyone else was retired. The way they dismantled us was comical. We were younger and faster but the precision they had with the puck really drove home just how good pros are, even guys who don't make it past the AHL. 

To the bolded, 100%.

Shockingly, the 800 or so players that actually get to the highest level of the sport are all (with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions and even they are in an elite, just not quite as elite, company) within the top 1,000 or so players in the world.

[LGR4GM]

34 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Often hear people who are great at pickup basketball say they could take NBA players who are bench players that never play, but then get absolutely crushed by them in a "no-contest" type way when they get a chance to play them.

That reminded me of Malenstyn scoring on that play...while there are probably a lot of people that think they are way better players and scorers in their leagues than someone like Malenstyn who is a 4th line player, the truth is he would dominate them and their league and score at will, like 5-10 goals a game any game he wanted. 

The difference in offensive skill between the best "pickup" hockey players and NHL 4th liners is still night and day and I think we forget that sometimes.

I always think about football. In College you might be playing against 5 or 6 NFL players at a time, in the NFL, everyone is that all the time. There's thousands of college football players, a few hundred get drafted, and only a select few of them make NFL teams. 

We often talk about depth of NHL drafts. The draft produces between 50 and 60 NHL players for every 224 players selected. Now think about how many CHL, USHL, NCAA. J20, and MHL players are draft eligible each year. Only 224 get taken, and only 50ish will play 100 NHL games. 

I know UB athletes that treat college like a joke because they are going to be big in the NFL. It is great to have that dream, but you making it is slim, you being good enough to retire and live off what you earned is even slimmer. Pro-athletes in 2025 are truly elite. 

[Eleven]

12 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We often talk about depth of NHL drafts. The draft produces between 50 and 60 NHL players for every 224 players selected. Now think about how many CHL, USHL, NCAA. J20, and MHL players are draft eligible each year. Only 224 get taken, and only 50ish will play 100 NHL games. 

Everyone would be wise to keep this in mind at the trade deadline.

[JoeSchmoe]

58 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Often hear people who are great at pickup basketball say they could take NBA players who are bench players that never play, but then get absolutely crushed by them in a "no-contest" type way when they get a chance to play them.

That reminded me of Malenstyn scoring on that play...while there are probably a lot of people that think they are way better players and scorers in their leagues than someone like Malenstyn who is a 4th line player, the truth is he would dominate them and their league and score at will, like 5-10 goals a game any game he wanted. 

The difference in offensive skill between the best "pickup" hockey players and NHL 4th liners is still night and day and I think we forget that sometimes.

I'm one of the biggest Malenstyn detractors here, but I would never suggest myself or anyone less than maybe a high end AHL player could compete against Malenstyn. I'm not sure if anyone else is saying that either.

All I'm saying is despite his NHL level skill (especially his speed), he doesn't process the game at an NHL level.

Using a chess analogy... the good players are thinking two moves ahead and the average players are thinking one move ahead. Malenstyn is a guy who can only think move by move. He lacks all foresight to be able to get himself or the puck into dangerous areas. You see this at all the time at all levels of hockey, where high relative skill does not translate to success.

In my opinion, as long as you can have an average level of skill for the league you're in, high hockey IQ will take a player further than any other skillset they can have. 

[GoPuckYourself]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

Often hear people who are great at pickup basketball say they could take NBA players who are bench players that never play, but then get absolutely crushed by them in a "no-contest" type way when they get a chance to play them.

That reminded me of Malenstyn scoring on that play...while there are probably a lot of people that think they are way better players and scorers in their leagues than someone like Malenstyn who is a 4th line player, the truth is he would dominate them and their league and score at will, like 5-10 goals a game any game he wanted. 

The difference in offensive skill between the best "pickup" hockey players and NHL 4th liners is still night and day and I think we forget that sometimes.

If you’re saying that Beck is better than beer league players then obviously but I think you could find AHLers that equal or better his play which is a way better comparison than older, most likely out of shape skaters on a forum like this 1 makes more sense. 

[msw2112]

I played hockey as a kid in the Buffalo area and played in some adult rec leagues over the years.  On occasion, NCAA and/or former NHL players would come out and skate with us.  Their talent level (even for NCAA women players) was MILES above any one of us, even the best of our group.  At that, they were likely going at half-speed.  

Basketball is an even more interesting reflection of this concept.  I've played pickup basketball with guys that can hit shots from anywhere.  Inside, 3-pointers, mid-range, driving the lane, etc.  They are SO good, and it's so effortless for them, yet the very best of these pickup guys had only a brief sniff of Division 3 hoops.  D-2, D-1, and the NBA were not even remotely realistic for him, or for others like him.

Malenstyn is who he is.  He's a 4th line NHL player with great speed and tenacity and also some offensive skill, but he lacks the ability to put it all together on a regular basis at NHL speeds.  There are some AHL players that are better overall hockey players, but based on the rosters of their parent clubs, they're not getting a shot at the league right now.  For a moment yesterday, he was able to put it all together and score a highlight reel goal.  If he had the ability to do it on a regular basis, he'd be a star, but he can't an he isn't.  He is still a solid 4th line contributor for the Sabres and will have a nice goal every now and then.  Adams may have given up too much draft capital to acquire him (a 2nd round pick, while maybe his value was more of a 4th round pick), but he's a solid role player for the Sabres.  At the time he was acquired, the Sabres lacked in speed and guys willing to execute a body check against an opposing player.  He has speed and is very willing to hit.

Edited 1 hour ago by msw2112

[shrader]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

Even Matt Ellis would skate circles around anyone that posts on this forum.

No one is skating around inkman’s calves. 

[inkman]

10 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I'm one of the biggest Malenstyn detractors here, but I would never suggest myself or anyone less than maybe a high end AHL player could compete against Malenstyn. I'm not sure if anyone else is saying that either.

All I'm saying is despite his NHL level skill (especially his speed), he doesn't process the game at an NHL level.

Using a chess analogy... the good players are thinking two moves ahead and the average players are thinking one move ahead. Malenstyn is a guy who can only think move by move. He lacks all foresight to be able to get himself or the puck into dangerous areas. You see this at all the time at all levels of hockey, where high relative skill does not translate to success.

In my opinion, as long as you can have an average level of skill for the league you're in, high hockey IQ will take a player further than any other skillset they can have. 

It feels like you are taking out what Adams gave up for Beck on him.  He’s an NHL talent. Just not n elite one. 

[Jorcus]

I remember hearing a story on the radio about a guy playing goal in the local hockey league. The other team brought in 2 Sabres as ringers in a game. Both were 3rd or 4th line types I just can't remember the names right now. The goalie thought oh this will be great to see how he would do against NHL players. After a few shoots he said it totally sucked. He never had faced shoots so hard that it hurt to try and stop them if he could.  

[JoeSchmoe]

2 minutes ago, inkman said:

It feels like you are taking out what Adams gave up for Beck on him.  He’s an NHL talent. Just not n elite one. 

Not at all. I look at his advanced stats and it supports the what I'm seeing on the ice. He'll throw hits and skate hard into the other team's corner. But inevitably the puck comes back and the other team out chances us every time he's on the ice.

[#freejame]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

Even Matt Ellis would skate circles around anyone that posts on this forum.

Not me. I’d just sit on the wall. Can’t skate circles around what you can’t encircle. 

[French Collection]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

Even Matt Ellis would skate circles around anyone that posts on this forum.

He wouldn’t get one lap in due to the hacks and whacks from the forum members.

[K-9]

Reminds me of the time when, several years after he retired, Max Afinogenov was invited to play in a beer league game and he scored something like 15 goals.