Ryan Johnson recalled by Sabres

[RochesterExpat]

Was this transaction simply because Jost didn’t clear waivers before practice so Buffalo was above the roster limit? Doing a paper transaction for Yohnnie got them to the correct roster size? I’m honestly confused.

[Sabres73]

I find it amazing how little it takes for this board to completely melt down. It's embarrassing.

[Taro T]

20 minutes ago, RochesterExpat said:

Was this transaction simply because Jost didn’t clear waivers before practice so Buffalo was above the roster limit? Doing a paper transaction for Yohnnie got them to the correct roster size? I’m honestly confused.

No.  Though Jost was still on the roster until he cleared waivers (or until he'd've been claimed should that have happened) he still gets paid his NHL salary but doesn't count towards the 23 active players.  He's in a kind of limbo and though he IS on the roster, he isn't.  (Too late on a Friday to bother relooking at the details of exactily how the transaction transpires; but once he was placed on waivers, they were good to use his roster spot.)

The Johnson transaction seems to have been strictly to get Thompson back onto the active roster list.

The big question remaining is was Girgensons removed from the IR list or not.  If he was, then the move was absolutely necessary to reactivate Thompson.  If he wasn't, then it appears the move was merely procedural and not by the letter of the CBA necessary.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Taro T

[Derrico]

16 minutes ago, Sabres73 said:

I find it amazing how little it takes for this board to completely melt down. It's embarrassing.

Shows they still care.  Apathy is worse than anger. 

[Indabuff]

19 minutes ago, Sabres73 said:

I find it amazing how little it takes for this board to completely melt down. It's embarrassing.

The Sabres organization is embarrassing. 

[Scottysabres]

45 minutes ago, Sabres73 said:

I find it amazing how little it takes for this board to completely melt down. It's embarrassing.

 

25 minutes ago, Indabuff said:

The Sabres organization is embarrassing. 

We're not even through the holiday break, and I can barely see my toes, that's embarrassing.

[Believer]

1 hour ago, Derrico said:

Shows they still care.  Apathy is worse than anger. 

Well said.

[PASabreFan]

It's been a long day. Let's get some shuteye.

[PromoTheRobot]

5 hours ago, Night Train said:

. 

 A shame Pegula is sitting on his hands in regards to his hockey team.

So you want him to meddle? 

[LGR4GM]

12 hours ago, Sabres73 said:

I find it amazing how little it takes for this board to completely melt down. It's embarrassing.

I find it amazing anyone blames fans for anything when this organization has repeatedly without fail, failed to do the right thing over and over and over ....

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

So you want him to meddle? 

Is holding staff accountable for their results meddling? That's what owners are expected to do in all sorts of enterprises. Is tolerating a flaccid PP doing the same ineffective things over and over acceptable? If it's a player problem, then make a player change. If it's a scheme problem, then change the coaches devising it. 

What's become exasperating to the followers here is the numbing sameness to these merging seasons over this past generation. Teams rebuild. That's a process that happens in all sports. But there should be a greater degree of tangible progress that is evident to all in that tough process. 

What has bothered me most about this season is the lack of consistent effort. It will be evident against the better teams. And then it flattens out against the lesser teams. If a team demonstrates that it can play at a high level but can't sustain it, then there is an internal problem associated with the player mix and/or coaching staff. 

The one that I don't consider fair is criticizing the fans for expressing their frustrations with this team and franchise. If you want to be satisfied with the course of this franchise, that is your prerogative. I'm not.

Will the Sabres come out and win today. Probably so. That's not the problem. It's how they play the next game, and the next game etc. So far, they haven't demonstrated that they can play at a high level for a sustainable period of time. That's the source of my frustration with this meandering team. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

On 12/29/2023 at 11:45 AM, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Just shoot me now !!

On second thought .........

[Doohickie]

Not for nothing, but I thought Lil J had a fine game tonight.

[ska-T Chitown]

12 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Not for nothing, but I thought Lil J had a fine game tonight.

I know this season has been maybe just north of a full disaster, and I have seen many straws at which I have grasped to try to save any shred of sanity ... but it sure seems those four years of NCAA hockey brought a healthy helping of maturity to his game. I think his overall trend has been up in terms of performance and learning.

[JohnC]

19 minutes ago, ska-T Chitown said:

I know this season has been maybe just north of a full disaster, and I have seen many straws at which I have grasped to try to save any shred of sanity ... but it sure seems those four years of NCAA hockey brought a healthy helping of maturity to his game. I think his overall trend has been up in terms of performance and learning.

As you are pointing out, there is an efficiency and maturity to this rookie's game that is impressive. He doesn't stick out because he's so efficient in moving the puck out of his zone. As you stated, staying four years in college prepared him well for the NHL. Just think, we got Tage and Johnson in the ROR trade with St. Louis. Sometimes it takes some time to calculate the p+/- in a deal. This was a great deal for us. 

[Pimlach]

 What’s not to like about this kid?   Student athlete that got his degree and took a steady path to the NHL.

Good skater and passer.  Plays with his head up and he sees what’s happening.  Four years in ncaa helped mature him.  My old school thinking said leave him Rochester for a year, and on some teams that might have been his reality.

But he can play and he will get better as he matures. 

[Taro T]

21 minutes ago, JohnC said:

As you are pointing out, there is an efficiency and maturity to this rookie's game that is impressive. He doesn't stick out because he's so efficient in moving the puck out of his zone. As you stated, staying four years in college prepared him well for the NHL. Just think, we got Tage and Johnson in the ROR trade with St. Louis. Sometimes it takes some time to calculate the p+/- in a deal. This was a great deal for us. 

No it wasn't.  You don't get to discount the 4 or 5 years of absolute dreck that we were subjected to when evaluating the deal.  Look at what has happened to this team and the fanbase in the years that it took to get those 2 playing like actual NHLers.

By your logic, if the team trades Dahlin for 5 1st rounders starting 7 years from now, and Thompson for another 4 1st rounders starting those same 7 years from now, and Quinn for 4 1st rounders 8 years from now, and so on and so forth; well 12 years from now when the Sabres finally make the playoffs, you'll be able to say what GREAT deals those were.  You don't get those wasted years back and you should've been able to get a prospect and a pick for much less than a Conn Smythe and Selke winner if those were 2 guys Botterill really wanted his successor to be able build with.

[JohnC]

Just now, Taro T said:

No it wasn't.  You don't get to discount the 4 or 5 years of absolute dreck that we were subjected to when evaluating the deal.  Look at what has happened to this team and the fanbase in the years that it took to get those 2 playing like actual NHLers.

By your logic, if the team trades Dahlin for 5 1st rounders starting 7 years from now, and Thompson for another 4 1st rounders starting those same 7 years from now, and Quinn for 4 1st rounders 8 years from now, and so on and so forth; well 12 years from now when the Sabres finally make the playoffs, you'll be able to say what GREAT deals those were.  You don't get those wasted years back and you should've been able to get a prospect and a pick for much less than a Conn Smythe and Selke winner if those were 2 guys Botterill really wanted his successor to be able build with.

I strenuously disagree with your basic point. I'm looking at the ROR as a single transaction. Although it took time for a full assessment it was a major plus for us. 

You are commenting on something altogether different i.e. the long-term dysfunction of the organization that is recognized by everyone. That's not what I was commenting on regarding this deal. Who in their right mind is going to disagree that this was a failed hockey operation? Certainly, not I. When you have carnage resulting in the team being blown apart, there is an aftermath. And this deal, by all calculations, is a good deal for us. Tage is a cornerstone player for us and it appears that Johnson is going to be a mainstay defenseman for us for a long time. Considering where we were when the deal was made, I make that deal every time if given the opportunity. 

[Taro T]

10 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I strenuously disagree with your basic point. I'm looking at the ROR as a single transaction. Although it took time for a full assessment it was a major plus for us. 

You are commenting on something altogether different i.e. the long-term dysfunction of the organization that is recognized by everyone. That's not what I was commenting on regarding this deal. Who in their right mind is going to disagree that this was a failed hockey operation? Certainly, not I. When you have carnage resulting in the team being blown apart, there is an aftermath. And this deal, by all calculations, is a good deal for us. Tage is a cornerstone player for us and it appears that Johnson is going to be a mainstay defenseman for us for a long time. Considering where we were when the deal was made, I make that deal every time if given the opportunity. 

No.  The deal stunk for 4 ####ing years.  It isn't magically a good deal because a prospect and a pick are finally useful literally a full presidential term after the trade was made.

The Sabres had NEGATIVE value from the return for the 1st 2 years of the deal and zero value the next year.  It took until the 4th season to get any sort of return from that trade and 2 additional years to get any value from the other piece.  And O'Reilly is STILL a positive contributor at ~0.8PPG plus all the intangibles he brings.  You shouldn't have to give up an O'Reilly in his prime and under contract for 4 more years to get a prospect and a late 1st rounder.  You are completely ignoring time in your evaluation of that trade.

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, Taro T said:

No.  The deal stunk for 4 ####ing years.  It isn't magically a good deal because a prospect and a pick are finally useful literally a full presidential term after the trade was made.

The Sabres had NEGATIVE value from the return for the 1st 2 years of the deal and zero value the next year.  It took until the 4th season to get any sort of return from that trade and 2 additional years to get any value from the other piece.  And O'Reilly is STILL a positive contributor at ~0.8PPG plus all the intangibles he brings.  You shouldn't have to give up an O'Reilly in his prime and under contract for 4 more years to get a prospect and a late 1st rounder.  You are completely ignoring time in your evaluation of that trade.

I'm not arguing that the history was a failed history. However, what shouldn't have happened, did happen. The owner under KA made a decision to do a major reset. How we got to that point is not what I'm bringing up. We both agree on the extended systemic failure. My point on the ROR trade is since the owner/GM decision was made to do a reboot, that particular deal on balance worked out for us. If you disagree on how I'm framing that deal, that's okay.  

[Doohickie]

6 hours ago, Taro T said:

You don't get to discount the 4 or 5 years of absolute dreck

Trades are frequently a trade of present for future.  That was clearly the case in the ROR trade.  The Blues needed him to put them over the top and exchanged him for the future which turned out to be Tage/Lil J.  (Throwing Mojo and whoever that other guy was was just window dressing.)

[Taro T]

16 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Trades are frequently a trade of present for future.  That was clearly the case in the ROR trade.  The Blues needed him to put them over the top and exchanged him for the future which turned out to be Tage/Lil J.  (Throwing Mojo and whoever that other guy was was just window dressing.)

No flippin' way Botterill expected Berglund to walk away and Sobotka to be such an absolute analytics black hole.  They did NOT get Johansson in that trade nor would his inclusion have made this trade good.

And again, Ryan O'Reilly was a Selke caliber FO winning C that could also score at a reasonable rate that was locked up for 4 more years.  Only getting (effectively) a prospect (pretty much viewed universally as the Blues 3rd best prospect, not even 1 of their top 2) and a late 1st (expected to be a mid-late 1st when the trade was made) for THAT was ineptitude on a major scale.   But, they only got a prospect and a mid-round 1st pick for the kid that you bought a shirt of; well, yes, he was only 1 year away from becoming a UFA and not under team control for another 4 years, had never been seriously considered for any league awards, and was viewed as a 1RW rather than a 1B center.  Reinhart brought in a good return.  ROR brought in relatively jack squat.

[Thorny]

13 hours ago, Taro T said:

No.  The deal stunk for 4 ####ing years.  It isn't magically a good deal because a prospect and a pick are finally useful literally a full presidential term after the trade was made.

The Sabres had NEGATIVE value from the return for the 1st 2 years of the deal and zero value the next year.  It took until the 4th season to get any sort of return from that trade and 2 additional years to get any value from the other piece.  And O'Reilly is STILL a positive contributor at ~0.8PPG plus all the intangibles he brings.  You shouldn't have to give up an O'Reilly in his prime and under contract for 4 more years to get a prospect and a late 1st rounder.  You are completely ignoring time in your evaluation of that trade.

Some people just can’t grasp the concept 

[thewookie1]

8 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Trades are frequently a trade of present for future.  That was clearly the case in the ROR trade.  The Blues needed him to put them over the top and exchanged him for the future which turned out to be Tage/Lil J.  (Throwing Mojo and whoever that other guy was was just window dressing.)

I'd say in most cases it is a present for future trade however, it isn't supposed to present for 4 years out. 

The ROR trade is akin to a happy accident seeing as the primary stopgap pieces were both abject failures. Thankfully Tage and R. Johnson seemed to have turned out great/potentially good and as such the trade is no longer a completely 1 sided deal. 

 

There's a reason that picks further down the line are worth less than those in the immediate up incoming draft. It's the same idea with prospects and younger players. 

[Doohickie]

8 hours ago, Taro T said:

No flippin' way Botterill expected Berglund to walk away and Sobotka to be such an absolute analytics black hole.  They did NOT get Johansson in that trade nor would his inclusion have made this trade good.

And again, Ryan O'Reilly was a Selke caliber FO winning C that could also score at a reasonable rate that was locked up for 4 more years.  Only getting (effectively) a prospect (pretty much viewed universally as the Blues 3rd best prospect, not even 1 of their top 2) and a late 1st (expected to be a mid-late 1st when the trade was made) for THAT was ineptitude on a major scale.   But, they only got a prospect and a mid-round 1st pick for the kid that you bought a shirt of; well, yes, he was only 1 year away from becoming a UFA and not under team control for another 4 years, had never been seriously considered for any league awards, and was viewed as a 1RW rather than a 1B center.  Reinhart brought in a good return.  ROR brought in relatively jack squat.

Yep, confused Mojo for Bergland. 

All this misery is blurring together in my head.