Zamboni Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 11 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said: This is a comment I can get behind. With that said, some clarifications: GMKA was hired in June 2020, so he’s only been around for three seasons leading up to this year. Granato was hired in interim in March 2021. Due to the Krueger effect and due to how much time left in the season (a few weeks at most), I’m willing to absolve the rest of 2021 from his record. That means he’s had 2+ years on a team that everyone knew was in another rebuild (Nov 2021 was the Eichel trade/reset). So he has been handed the youngest team in the league in back to back years. But that’s two years and not four years as you said. To your specifics (thank you), we suck at face offs. Is that a coaching issue or an issue with drafting and development? Personally, I don’t hold this against the head coach. The PP. This can potentially be pinned on coaching, but the Sabres were top five last year. It has only been six weeks and it’s a long season. It’s too early to pin this on coaching, and oh by the way…the PK has dramatically improved from last year. That should be taken into account. Compete level of defenders? Sounds like roster construction over coaching. Compete level forwards? My first instinct is to point out that the GM iced the youngest team in the league (again). Can you really tie this to coaching? Perhaps, but I’m not willing to assume DG is only a developmental coach because he has been given a bunch of guys who legally can’t drink and aren’t succeeding against veteran teams. Happy Thanksgiving! 🦃🦃🦃 Well said. I agree with a lot of what you said. So, what exactly do you blame DG for? What do you lay directly at the feet of DG only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porous Five Hole Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 20 minutes ago, Zamboni said: Well said. I agree with a lot of what you said. So, what exactly do you blame DG for? What do you lay directly at the feet of DG only? To be honest, I think the blame for this slow start should be targeted toward roster construction (i.e.the GM). It was criminal to set the expectation of the playoffs given the youngest team in the league (youngest team in the league for the second season in a row BTW—and no one in the crease had 50 GP life to date). The coach only works with what he’s been given. Either the fanbase needs to reset expectations to align with the GM’s timeline of success—or hold the GM accountable. To me, the issues of this team are not within the coaches control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Porous Five Hole said: To be honest, I think the blame for this slow start should be targeted toward roster construction (i.e.the GM). It was criminal to set the expectation of the playoffs given the youngest team in the league (youngest team in the league for the second season in a row BTW—and no one in the crease had 50 GP life to date). The coach only works with what he’s been given. Either the fanbase needs to reset expectations to align with the GM’s timeline of success—or hold the GM accountable. To me, the issues of this team are not within the coaches control. No, it was criminal to ice the youngest team in the league when the expectation is playoffs 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porous Five Hole Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 Just now, Thorny said: No, it was criminal to ice the youngest team in the league when the expectation is playoffs So we agree. 🍻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said: So we agree. 🍻 I wouldn’t use a term as extreme as criminal and it’s too early to pass judgment but, if we do miss, yes, being a young team doesn’t count as an excuse Edited November 23, 2023 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 (edited) Does the team have a 4 game win streak in them? That gets their pace over 82 to 93 and right in mix for playoffs. It’s certainly do able. I guess the issue with that is a 4 game streak means it’s not a 5 gamer so the next game is a necessitated loss. So a 4 game streak really has us on an 89 point pace haha. But still, a short string and things can change quickly. Really, they’ll need a couple streaks, when you think about the math Edited November 23, 2023 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 28 minutes ago, Thorny said: No, it was criminal to ice the youngest team in the league when the expectation is playoffs That really doesn’t make sense, we weren’t going to exactly get older on average even with a vet goalie and Levi being in Rochester. If Quinn’s healthy we likely would have dealt Olofsson and used another younger player, like Rousek, in that roster spot. 14 minutes ago, Thorny said: Does the team have a 4 game win streak in them? That gets their pace over 82 to 93 and right in mix for playoffs. It’s certainly do able. I guess the issue with that is a 4 game streak means it’s not a 5 gamer so the next game is a necessitated loss. So a 4 game streak really has us on an 89 point pace haha. But still, a short string and things can change quickly. Really, they’ll need a couple streaks, when you think about the math Certainly, they just need to settle in more. We aren’t sinking; we are merely treading water presently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, thewookie1 said: That really doesn’t make sense, we weren’t going to exactly get older on average even with a vet goalie and Levi being in Rochester. If Quinn’s healthy we likely would have dealt Olofsson and used another younger player, like Rousek, in that roster spot. Certainly, they just need to settle in more. We aren’t sinking; we are merely treading water presently Like I said, my point was more so that the statement had it backwards. The issue wasn’t proclaiming the expectations too high, it’s that, if we don’t make it, we didn’t ice a team that lived up to the (properly set) expectations. Playoffs remain the line. It’s not criminal to ice the youngest team but it’s by choice and doesn’t change expectations, and a few savvy moves for veteran players in areas of need would presumably bump the age up a bit. I’m not going to haggle with with you about “who even was there?” the line is playoffs, the expectations weren’t incorrectly set 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 KA wanted to make additons but the players told him they wanted to move forward with the current group since they all get along so well. It's time for the tail to stop wagging the dog. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyldnwoody44 Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 My issue with coaching... This includes the assistants, as the coach has the power to change these. Our Perimeter play, and very soft play in general is 100% on coaching... If players are being coached to go to the dirty areas and they aren't, the coach needs to make changes. If they're not being coached to do so then that's a separate issue. Look at the slot when the Sabres play; I could set up a lawn chair and not worry about a breeze going by me. The PP is truly abysmal, I haven't seen a PP look so awful in years, no movement, stupid drop passes, odd man rushes against all the time. Simply unacceptable, that's a coaching issue. The overall defensive structure, what is it even!? Hey boys, go chase whoever you want and make out subpar goalies makes crazy saves. Again, coaching. I get that KA hasn't put DG in the greatest of situations, this team is very flawed, but putting KO on the PP and a struggling Cozens out in OT, you've gotta be better than that Donnieee. But hey, we hear about how well they get along and we get some funny social media videos from time to time so that makes it OK. This team has already alienated a whole generation with their crap play and they're trending Into another generation very quickly. Most other teams would have up and moved by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 This is Granato's 3rd full season and 4th if you count the partial. How many NHL coaches get to return if they have 4 losing years? Seriously asking. Any? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyldnwoody44 Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 Just now, PerreaultForever said: This is Granato's 3rd full season and 4th if you count the partial. How many NHL coaches get to return if they have 4 losing years? Seriously asking. Any? Only if you have incriminating pictures of your boss. Or, when in Buffalo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, pi2000 said: KA wanted to make additons but the players told him they wanted to move forward with the current group since they all get along so well. It's time for the tail to stop wagging the dog. Is this factual (cause if it is it explains a lot) or are you just wagging your own back end and pulling things out of it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 16 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said: This is Granato's 3rd full season and 4th if you count the partial. How many NHL coaches get to return if they have 4 losing years? Seriously asking. Any? Last year can’t rightfully be called a losing year considering we were above .500 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Thorny said: Last year can’t rightfully be called a losing year considering we were above .500 Even better, it was ABOVE A DELUCA 0.500!!!! THEY MADE THE PLAYOFFS too, because it's GUARANTEED to be there if you hit that MAJOR MILESTONE!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 Just now, Taro T said: Even better, it was ABOVE A DELUCA 0.500!!!! THEY MADE THE PLAYOFFS too, because it's GUARANTEED to be there if you hit that MAJOR MILESTONE!!!!! Sir, this is a Wendy’s 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 Oh, wait, that DOESN'T guarantee playoffs? But we were told it should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Thorny said: Last year can’t rightfully be called a losing year considering we were above .500 Though, “winning season” can’t rightfully be considered synonymous with “good” anymore, necessarily: our winning season was good for 20th out of 32: so, in essence, a below average result. So perhaps “winning season” is ultimately semantics in this case Edited November 23, 2023 by Thorny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 52 minutes ago, pi2000 said: KA wanted to make additons but the players told him they wanted to move forward with the current group since they all get along so well. If this is true, Adams needs to grow a pair. I understand keeping a core group together, but KA must fix the holes in the lineup. If a guy isn’t carrying his weight a good GM moves on. Truthfully Adams should know better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Thorny said: Last year can’t rightfully be called a losing year considering we were above .500 I'm sorry but that bar is too low for me. 16 teams make the playoffs the other half fail. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 6 hours ago, Thorny said: Last year can’t rightfully be called a losing year considering we were above .500 We call this "spin" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 The way that almost everyone has nosedived and regressed this season is such a damning indictment of the entire coaching staff. A serious organization would recognize this and take appropriate action (ie: Start handing out pink slips and hiring competent pros who are actually good at their jobs). The worst organization in modern hockey history (us) will simply do nothing, continue to fail forever and wonder why they keep failing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmel Corn Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 It's professional sports....when the team fails to meet expectations, then the coach(s) is typically the fall guy. The Bills finally made a change and fired Dorsey, whether he deserved it or not. I personally don't buy the argument that Granato bears no responsibility here (vs. GMKA only). His roster is not significantly different from last year, yet his team is near the bottom of the conference and is already at a statistical disadvantage for making the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 7 hours ago, pi2000 said: KA wanted to make additons but the players told him they wanted to move forward with the current group since they all get along so well. It's time for the tail to stop wagging the dog. He's over-corrected for the previous toxic atmosphere. I don't know what the answers are, but from my distant perspective, I'd like to see KA choose a core of young players not yet on the club or just starting as keepers (eg. Kulich, Rosen, Levi, and Benson,) and put everyone else on the table for trades. It would probably do him good to even take less than how he values someone to break the ice in a trade. He's too scared to lose a trade, or too emotionally invested in his players. And really, I'd like to hire Michael Peca as HC. If a team ultimately reflects the attitude of their coach, Peca would shape them into a team that wins, even at home, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 Based simply on points, the Sabres have 2 teams to leapfrog, and 2 teams they are tied with. The season is still manageable, but they absolutely cannot get into a situation where they have more teams to leapfrog over for that last playoff spot. The season really is in the balance. Right. Now. They can’t afford to wait go on a run after Christmas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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