It Is Time: Fire the GM, the Coaching Staff, get some experience in here. Fans deserve better!!!

[LTS]

2 hours ago, sabremike said:

The way that almost everyone has nosedived and regressed this season is such a damning indictment of the entire coaching staff. A serious organization would recognize this and take appropriate action (ie: Start handing out pink slips and hiring competent pros who are actually good at their jobs). The worst organization in modern hockey history (us) will simply do nothing, continue to fail forever and wonder why they keep failing.

I wonder why you keep putting energy into this team given all of its transgressions. If I felt as negative as it appears you do in your posts I would just tune the team out for awhile and save my sanity.

The team has regressed this year. It very probably has to do with the fact that they are a young team and they are not handling the expectations placed upon them. They are playing too tight. It could be that they just suck. The question is, are the players capable of playing better and the coaching staff is keeping them from achieving or is it that the players are not executing what the coaching staff expects?  I'm not sure we know the answer to that. There's a ton of speculation here. It was the same coach that had them playing better last year. So why have they regressed?

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

He's over-corrected for the previous toxic atmosphere. I don't know what the answers are, but from my distant perspective, I'd like to see KA choose a core of young players not yet on the club or just starting as keepers (eg. Kulich, Rosen, Levi, and Benson,) and put everyone else on the table for trades. It would probably do him good to even take less than how he values someone to break the ice in a trade. He's too scared to lose a trade, or too emotionally invested in his players. And really, I'd like to hire Michael Peca as HC. If a team ultimately reflects the attitude of their coach, Peca would shape them into a team that wins, even at home, lol.

Perhaps he did. But it's hard to say that an alternate path would have been better. That's the luxury everyone here has. First, hindsight is 20/20. Second, we can all make prognostications as to what changes are correct but we all make those without any direct insight into the organization or the league itself. It's pure speculation and certainly when it plays out negatively as predicted the justification is there. He could have made the changes people thought and it could have still not worked out to be any better.

When the Pegula family took over they tried all manner of quick fix solutions and they all failed. They've settled on a plan to build a team and by all accounts that was working.  For that I am at least thankful. The quick fixes only burned out all talent from this organization.

The fans will always have a shorter timeline than the organization because they continue to carry baggage of past management structures with them. That said, it's clear there are some changes that need to be made and the inflection point is upon us.

They have to decide on Benson. That alone requires them to take action. They have to decide on how to ice 6 defense and 12 forwards. This 11+7 crap is no way to ice a team. They need to move some bodies. Whether that's moving some of the prospects for players who can definitively help the team now or moving some of the vets blocking the prospects so the prospects can help the team now. Something has to change. The risk with bringing MORE youth in is that it's already a very young team.

The Sabres will be forced to make one of the less common December trades that helps the team turn things around. They aren't a team that will be able to wait for the deadline.

 

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, LTS said:

 

The fans will always have a shorter timeline than the organization because they continue to carry baggage of past management structures with them. That said, it's clear there are some changes that need to be made and the inflection point is upon us.

 

Yes... the fans who haven't seen the playoffs in a league record 12 years and counting have a bit of a shorter timeline than... maybe sometime or not

[Dr. Who]

7 minutes ago, LTS said:

Perhaps he did. But it's hard to say that an alternate path would have been better. That's the luxury everyone here has. First, hindsight is 20/20. Second, we can all make prognostications as to what changes are correct but we all make those without any direct insight into the organization or the league itself. It's pure speculation and certainly when it plays out negatively as predicted the justification is there. He could have made the changes people thought and it could have still not worked out to be any better.

When the Pegula family took over they tried all manner of quick fix solutions and they all failed. They've settled on a plan to build a team and by all accounts that was working.  For that I am at least thankful. The quick fixes only burned out all talent from this organization.

The fans will always have a shorter timeline than the organization because they continue to carry baggage of past management structures with them. That said, it's clear there are some changes that need to be made and the inflection point is upon us.

They have to decide on Benson. That alone requires them to take action. They have to decide on how to ice 6 defense and 12 forwards. This 11+7 crap is no way to ice a team. They need to move some bodies. Whether that's moving some of the prospects for players who can definitively help the team now or moving some of the vets blocking the prospects so the prospects can help the team now. Something has to change. The risk with bringing MORE youth in is that it's already a very young team.

The Sabres will be forced to make one of the less common December trades that helps the team turn things around. They aren't a team that will be able to wait for the deadline.

 

I know it is all too easy to create a fable out of ignorance. It is largely just emotive venting, as nothing I suggest will have material effect. I do think they are forced to try something sooner rather than later.

[pi2000]

2 hours ago, LTS said:

I wonder why you keep putting energy into this team given all of its transgressions. If I felt as negative as it appears you do in your posts I would just tune the team out for awhile and save my sanity.

The team has regressed this year. It very probably has to do with the fact that they are a young team and they are not handling the expectations placed upon them. They are playing too tight. It could be that they just suck. The question is, are the players capable of playing better and the coaching staff is keeping them from achieving or is it that the players are not executing what the coaching staff expects?  I'm not sure we know the answer to that. There's a ton of speculation here. It was the same coach that had them playing better last year. So why have they regressed?

Perhaps he did. But it's hard to say that an alternate path would have been better. That's the luxury everyone here has. First, hindsight is 20/20. Second, we can all make prognostications as to what changes are correct but we all make those without any direct insight into the organization or the league itself. It's pure speculation and certainly when it plays out negatively as predicted the justification is there. He could have made the changes people thought and it could have still not worked out to be any better.

When the Pegula family took over they tried all manner of quick fix solutions and they all failed. They've settled on a plan to build a team and by all accounts that was working.  For that I am at least thankful. The quick fixes only burned out all talent from this organization.

The fans will always have a shorter timeline than the organization because they continue to carry baggage of past management structures with them. That said, it's clear there are some changes that need to be made and the inflection point is upon us.

They have to decide on Benson. That alone requires them to take action. They have to decide on how to ice 6 defense and 12 forwards. This 11+7 crap is no way to ice a team. They need to move some bodies. Whether that's moving some of the prospects for players who can definitively help the team now or moving some of the vets blocking the prospects so the prospects can help the team now. Something has to change. The risk with bringing MORE youth in is that it's already a very young team.

The Sabres will be forced to make one of the less common December trades that helps the team turn things around. They aren't a team that will be able to wait for the deadline.

 

They're playing a more defensively responsible style this year.   

This is early season growing pains for a young team learning how to play winning hockey.

Would they have more goals and maybe a better record if they continued playing fire wagon hockey?  Maybe.   But we know that can only take them so far.

If they can manage to stay around 500 while implementing a new system, then it should pay off in the second half of the season.

That said, until they stop making dumb mistakes and poor personell decisions, I'm not sure Granato is the guy to help them take that next step.

And lastly, Levi needs to be sent down, he has glaring weaknesses that need attention.   He needs more than a spot start once a week to develop this early in his career.

Benson should be sent down, it's best for him and his long term development.  Let him and Savoie continue to build chemistry.

[Pimlach]

19 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

They're playing a more defensively responsible style this year.   

This is early season growing pains for a young team learning how to play winning hockey.

Would they have more goals and maybe a better record if they continued playing fire wagon hockey?  Maybe.   But we know that can only take them so far.

If they can manage to stay around 500 while implementing a new system, then it should pay off in the second half of the season.

That said, until they stop making dumb mistakes and poor personell decisions, I'm not sure Granato is the guy to help them take that next step.

And lastly, Levi needs to be sent down, he has glaring weaknesses that need attention.   He needs more than a spot start once a week to develop this early in his career.

Benson should be sent down, it's best for him and his long term development.  Let him and Savoie continue to build chemistry.

Good post.

It will sting to send Benson down because he is one of our better forwards this season  - and that says a lot about the roster that Adams has constructed during the off season.  

 

[Flashsabre]

25 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Good post.

It will sting to send Benson down because he is one of our better forwards this season  - and that says a lot about the roster that Adams has constructed during the off season.  

 

I agree. If they sign Kane and Quinn returns then it more then replaces anything Benson will bring this season. Let him go to the WJCs and then back to junior to get faster and stronger.

He will be a special player.

Adams needs to figure out this forward group moving forward.  Kulich, Benson, Savoie, Rosen, Östlund, Wahlberg all look like NHL forwards. Peterka is taking off, Quinn should too when he gets back to his old self. Where do all these guys fit? They all won’t so who stays who goes. They really need a physical forward that loves the slot. Dirty goal type player.

a 4th Line centre that wins battles and face offs and is solid defensively would Ben a big help too. 

Find a landing spot for VO.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Flashsabre

[seer775]

We are royally fudged until Pegula takes off. He cannot make sound executive decisions, nor can he hire competent staffers. 

We let players walk that would have allowed us to be competitive now (ROR, Hall, Ullmark, Eichel, Reinhart, Foligno, Risto, Montour). We had all the pieces, but not the leadership required to unite the team under the vision: Championship. That comes straight from the Owner.

Pegula has got to go.

Edited November 23, 2023 by seer775

[Crusader1969]

2 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

I agree. If they sign Kane and Quinn returns then it more then replaces anything Benson will bring this season. Let him go to the WJCs and then back to junior to get faster and stronger.

He will be a special player.

Adams needs to figure out this forward group moving forward.  Kulich, Benson, Savoie, Rosen, Östlund, Wahlberg all look like NHL forwards. Peterka is taking off, Quinn should too when he gets back to his old self. Where do all these guys fit? They all won’t so who stays who goes. They really need a physical forward that loves the slot. Dirty goal type player.

a 4th Line centre that wins battles and face offs and is solid defensively would Ben a big help too. 

Find a landing spot for VO.

I'm on the fence about Benson, though I am leaning towards having him stay. Is he better right now than the guy who will replace him when sent to the CHL? probably 

I also wonder if him going back and dominating the CHL is in his best interest. 

At some point, they have to play their best players AND do everything they can to win.

Until Adams give him a full compliment of players, I think it is unfair to penalize Granato by firing him.  Plusa, I want him to be around to work with all their prospects...

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Crusader1969

[Thorny]

7 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Yes... the fans who haven't seen the playoffs in a league record 12 years and counting have a bit of a shorter timeline than... maybe sometime or not

If we miss this year Adams will have contributed to the drought more than any other single GM. It’s not about baggage, it’s about this GM delivering little change from the trend where it counts the most: actual results. The 12 going on 13 years all meld together in the macro. That’s our existence.

it’s not that this excruciatingly slow rebuild is intolerable to fans because of the decade preceding. It’s that taking potentially 5 years just to make the playoffs is *far too long to be an acceptable time frame on its own*. It’s adding that already unacceptable time frame to the previous 8 years of ineptitude that makes it *historically* offensive. 

it’s a stupid timeline to success as is, in a vacuum, made significantly worse when viewed in context. The angst isn’t just from the context. It’s from both. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

16 hours ago, seer775 said:

We are royally fudged until Pegula takes off. He cannot make sound executive decisions, nor can he hire competent staffers. 

We let players walk that would have allowed us to be competitive now (ROR, Hall, Ullmark, Eichel, Reinhart, Foligno, Risto, Montour). We had all the pieces, but not the leadership required to unite the team under the vision: Championship. That comes straight from the Owner.

Pegula has got to go.

ROr, Eichel, Reinhart, Risto were not allowed to walk, they were traded.

[LTS]

19 hours ago, seer775 said:

We are royally fudged until Pegula takes off. He cannot make sound executive decisions, nor can he hire competent staffers. 

We let players walk that would have allowed us to be competitive now (ROR, Hall, Ullmark, Eichel, Reinhart, Foligno, Risto, Montour). We had all the pieces, but not the leadership required to unite the team under the vision: Championship. That comes straight from the Owner.

Pegula has got to go.

Quite an agenda there.

I had typed up a long response but I really don't want to engage in a prolonged conversation.

But pointing to ROR, Hall, and Risto as supporting evidence... whew. In fact I'd only look at Ullmark, Reinhart, and Montour as possibly supporting your points but even those are pretty cloudy.

But, given that the owner hasn't shown he's selling the team... it sounds like you are going to be severely disappointed.

[PASabreFan]

25 minutes ago, LTS said:

Quite an agenda there.

I had typed up a long response but I really don't want to engage in a prolonged conversation.

But pointing to ROR, Hall, and Risto as supporting evidence... whew. In fact I'd only look at Ullmark, Reinhart, and Montour as possibly supporting your points but even those are pretty cloudy.

But, given that the owner hasn't shown he's selling the team... it sounds like you are going to be severely disappointed.

Disagree? Agenda.

Agree? This.

Weak.

[Pimlach]

20 hours ago, seer775 said:

We are royally fudged until Pegula takes off. He cannot make sound executive decisions, nor can he hire competent staffers. 

We let players walk that would have allowed us to be competitive now (ROR, Hall, Ullmark, Eichel, Reinhart, Foligno, Risto, Montour). We had all the pieces, but not the leadership required to unite the team under the vision: Championship. That comes straight from the Owner.

Pegula has got to go.

FIFY

5 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Disagree? Agenda.

Agree? This.

Weak.

Conservation of energy today?  Too much turkey?  

Edited November 24, 2023 by Pimlach

[LTS]

53 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Disagree? Agenda.

Agree? This.

Weak.

 

I'll admit I tried harder than I should have to understand your response, but I still don't.  I could infer a lot, but it's not worth it.

 

 

[PASabreFan]

27 minutes ago, LTS said:

 

I'll admit I tried harder than I should have to understand your response, but I still don't.  I could infer a lot, but it's not worth it.

 

 

People smear opinions they don't like with the tag of agenda or narrative. Opinions they like are also sometimes agendas or narratives.

Anywho I don't see how any anti TP post can be an agenda or narrative. He is objectively terrible as an owner.

McDonald's makes terrible burgers is not a narrative.

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

FIFY

Conservation of energy today?  Too much turkey?  

Ye

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

People smear opinions they don't like with the tag of agenda or narrative. Opinions they like are also sometimes agendas or narratives.

Anywho I don't see how any anti TP post can be an agenda or narrative. He is objectively terrible as an owner.

McDonald's makes terrible burgers is not a narrative.

Ye

Disagree on McDonald’s 

[Weave]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Disagree on McDonald’s 

Well, that’s just like, your agenda, man.

[Porous Five Hole]

Not sure if I should pin this on Granato or Adams. But I am puzzled and annoyed about tonight’s lineup. 
 

Granato is playing 7 D again tonight because the Sabres don’t have any extra forwards. Kulich is one hour away. So stupid.
The Sabres could’ve sent Levi down and he wouldn’t even have to go…Just a paper transaction.  I don’t get it. Instead, we are going to get eleven minutes of Erik Johnson and jumbled partners of forwards and defensemen everywhere. 

[Crusader1969]

35 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Not sure if I should pin this on Granato or Adams. But I am puzzled and annoyed about tonight’s lineup. 
 

Granato is playing 7 D again tonight because the Sabres don’t have any extra forwards. Kulich is one hour away. So stupid.
The Sabres could’ve sent Levi down and he wouldn’t even have to go…Just a paper transaction.  I don’t get it. Instead, we are going to get eleven minutes of Erik Johnson and jumbled partners of forwards and defensemen everywhere. 

How can you not be sure ? Adams is paralyzed at the moment and won't make a decision.    100% on him. 
 

Kulich and Rosen better be called up for tomorrow's game. 

[seer775]

9 hours ago, LTS said:

Quite an agenda there.

I had typed up a long response but I really don't want to engage in a prolonged conversation.

But pointing to ROR, Hall, and Risto as supporting evidence... whew. In fact I'd only look at Ullmark, Reinhart, and Montour as possibly supporting your points but even those are pretty cloudy.

But, given that the owner hasn't shown he's selling the team... it sounds like you are going to be severely disappointed.

Bruh, ROR has been a better player than any Sabre in the last decade sub Eichel (in Vegas). Hall is more competent than anyone we have besides maybe TT. Risto was a decent D-man who we managed to replace with literally no one. Ullmark Reinhart and Montour are happily as far away from this terrible team as possible and they are tearing it up.

We are all going to be severely disappointed as we watch this team fail year after year until Pegula is way in the rear view mirror.

Edited November 25, 2023 by seer775

[seer775]

13 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

ROr, Eichel, Reinhart, Risto were not allowed to walk, they were traded.

Traded for pucks. Why did we trade them in the first place?

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, seer775 said:

Bruh, ROR has been a better player than any Sabre in the last decade sub Eichel (in Vegas). Hall is more competent than anyone we have besides maybe TT. Risto was a decent D-man who we managed to replace with literally no one. Ullmark Reinhart and Montour are happily as far away from this terrible team as possible and they are tearing it up.

 

There's so much factually wrong here.

4 minutes ago, seer775 said:

Traded for pucks. Why did we trade them in the first place?

I'm not listing those trades. You have Google, look it up. You also have Google and can read about why those trades were made. 

Honestly I'm confused if you're a Sabres fan if you don't know why at the very least Eichel was traded. 

[seer775]

35 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

There's so much factually wrong here.

I'm not listing those trades. You have Google, look it up. You also have Google and can read about why those trades were made. 

Honestly I'm confused if you're a Sabres fan if you don't know why at the very least Eichel was traded. 

Our owner is a full on mental case who has no idea what he's doing. We gave away a generational center for nothing, only for said center to put on an MVP performance in the Stanley Cup Finals the very next year. And better yet, he said he would've stayed if he got the surgery (which he ended up getting anyways).

We gave away a 500 pt winger (50-60 pts per season) at 5 mil for a prospect and a draft pick.

We gave away Montour who put up 13 pts +2 in the playoffs for the Cats for a third round pick.

O'Reilly full on said he lost the love of hockey while he was in Buffalo. If that doesn't mean that something is horribly, terribly wrong with the culture in this city, I don't know what would. By the way, he was also the Conn Smythe winner as Captain of the Blues the next year.

We don't have a 1A goalie. We had one. He's now starting for Boston, a team that can at least make the playoffs. 

Pegula is the man!!!

Edited November 25, 2023 by seer775

[LGR4GM]

23 minutes ago, seer775 said:

Our owner is a full on mental case who has no idea what he's doing. We gave away a generational center for nothing, only for said center to put on an MVP performance in the Stanley Cup Finals the very next year. And better yet, he said he would've stayed if he got the surgery (which he ended up getting anyways).

We gave away a 500 pt winger (50-60 pts per season) at 5 mil for a prospect and a draft pick.

We gave away Montour who put up 13 pts +2 in the playoffs for the Cats for a third round pick.

O'Reilly full on said he lost the love of hockey while he was in Buffalo. If that doesn't mean that something is horribly, terribly wrong with the culture in this city, I don't know what would. By the way, he was also the Conn Smythe winner as Captain of the Blues the next year.

We don't have a 1A goalie. We had one. He's now starting for Boston, a team that can at least make the playoffs. 

Pegula is the man!!!

Again, you are weaving half truths and straight bs together. You don't like Pegula, that's fine. A lot of this though is not accurate and I'm not dealing with posters like you anymore. 

[Brawndo]

13 minutes ago, seer775 said:

Our owner is a full on mental case who has no idea what he's doing. We gave away a generational center for nothing, only for said center to put on an MVP performance in the Stanley Cup Finals the very next year. And better yet, he said he would've stayed if he got the surgery (which he ended up getting anyways).

Eichel asked for a trade in Summer of 2020 before He was injured. 
 

It was reported He would have played for the Sabres for short while post surgery in order to prove to other teams, he had recovered in order to facilitate a trade. 
 

Teams that get the best player in the deal usually win the deal.

 

There is plenty of examples to prove that Pegula has been a less stellar owner, but he has been hands off from the hockey operations department since Kim’s Medical Situation