Around the NHL 2023-24 Season

[shrader]

3 hours ago, Weave said:

What would you give up for Nikita?

Hey!  Twitter imbed actually worked!

Does a team care all that much when a 3rd pair d-man requests a trade? I mean, of course they do, but it’s not exactly the type of player where a trade request sends shockwaves through the league. 

[Zamboni]

I wouldn’t want Zadorov on this team. At all… For reasons I’ve said before.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, shrader said:

Does a team care all that much when a 3rd pair d-man requests a trade? I mean, of course they do, but it’s not exactly the type of player where a trade request sends shockwaves through the league. 

Slow news day.

[Brawndo]

Zadorov has made some less than flattering comments about His Time in Buffalo ( not that I blame him one bit) so he would certainly test Adams does he want to be here Philosophy.

Dreger also confirms that Tanev and Hanifin are on the market as well 

[K-9]

Wouldn’t touch this loser with a ten foot hockey stick.

[PerreaultForever]

11 hours ago, Curt said:

I think about the cap as much as anyone, but you are honest way overstating this as an issue.

Having their top 5 players locked up at around $40M for the next several years is a good cap position.  It’s not an abnormally large amount.  It’s difficult to find a good team this year that has their top 5 for less than 40 (there are a couple, but not many).  A few years from now that $40M for a top 5 would actually be an asset, not a hindrance.

It has been an issue for Toronto the past few years, but do you know what they have actually been paying their guys?  Their top 5 has been making $48M for the past few years.  Compare that to what the Sabres are looking at.  ~$40M for the next several years as the cap rises sharply.  The two situations really are not in the same ballpark.

Before you continue to repeat this position over and over, please look closely at the cap #s of other team’s top 5.  Go look at all the good teams.  How many of them actually have their top 5 for less than $40M?  How many of them project to maintain that for the next several years?

I'm not disagreeing with this but once you add one more top paid player to that we get in their situation. So yes, we get one more top player than the Leafs in our top core, and that makes a difference, but it still ends up being a lot of money that so far has not brought dividends. The bottom end of the roster sucks.

Everything with the Sabres is still in an optimists projection era where there is an expectation that they simply HAVE to be good, how can they not be with so many prospects, but so far they are not. 

I simply feel that this treasure chest of prospects philosophy makes us as fans keep waiting on that future and if and when that future gets here the window of opportunity will slam shut on us because of it. I'd prefer if we NOW used some of that prospect capital as assets, made a deal or two and (as much as you can) assured success now. 

So before anyone screams that's Terry Murray, it's not. This is a completely different time and situation. 

[Curt]

24 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm not disagreeing with this but once you add one more top paid player to that we get in their situation. So yes, we get one more top player than the Leafs in our top core, and that makes a difference, but it still ends up being a lot of money that so far has not brought dividends. The bottom end of the roster sucks.

Everything with the Sabres is still in an optimists projection era where there is an expectation that they simply HAVE to be good, how can they not be with so many prospects, but so far they are not. 

I simply feel that this treasure chest of prospects philosophy makes us as fans keep waiting on that future and if and when that future gets here the window of opportunity will slam shut on us because of it. I'd prefer if we NOW used some of that prospect capital as assets, made a deal or two and (as much as you can) assured success now. 

So before anyone screams that's Terry Murray, it's not. This is a completely different time and situation. 

Honestly not understanding some of your points.

You are now saying:  We can afford more good players than the Leafs because our contract situations are better?  Yeah, that was my whole point.

The additional stuff you say about those additional good players in addition to the top 5, still ending up costing a lot of money…….yeah, good players are going to cost money, and all the cap space is going to get used up.  That’s what happens.  All the money gets spent.  That’s what we want.

You also keep saying this line about everyone being an optimistic and assuming that the team will be good.  That means absolute nothing.  It’s not an actionable sentiment.  I want the Sabres to make good decisions that will give them the best chance of being good.  If it doesn’t work out, then the cap hits don’t really matter much.  I certainly don’t want them to not spend money because there is a possibility that they might not end up being good.  Spend when it makes sense.  The chips will fall where they will.

I agree with you about making a couple trades to bring in help nowish/soon.  I think they need to do something before next season.

It was Tim Murray, and I actually think that because of the amount of talent that has developed on the NHL, most people are beyond that thinking of worrying about Tim Murraying it.

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, Curt said:

Honestly not understanding some of your points.

You are now saying:  We can afford more good players than the Leafs because our contract situations are better?  Yeah, that was my whole point.

The additional stuff you say about those additional good players in addition to the top 5, still ending up costing a lot of money…….yeah, good players are going to cost money, and all the cap space is going to get used up.  That’s what happens.  All the money gets spent.  That’s what we want.

You also keep saying this line about everyone being an optimistic and assuming that the team will be good.  That means absolute nothing.  It’s not an actionable sentiment.  I want the Sabres to make good decisions that will give them the best chance of being good.  If it doesn’t work out, then the cap hits don’t really matter much.  I certainly don’t want them to not spend money because there is a possibility that they might not end up being good.  Spend when it makes sense.  The chips will fall where they will.

I agree with you about making a couple trades to bring in help nowish/soon.  I think they need to do something before next season.

It was Tim Murray, and I actually think that because of the amount of talent that has developed on the NHL, most people are beyond that thinking of worrying about Tim Murraying it.

lol, what I find the funniest is I'm so past Murray I forgot which first name was which. Tim Terry call him Fred maybe, doesn't matter. it's the critique some people jump to here any time you talk about trading a prospect. 

So we agree on the nowish thing. That's good cause it's pretty much my main point. My other point you have trouble understanding is, as simply as I can explain it, I think this team is being built or structured poorly for future success. I'm probably projecting too far ahead, but that's what old guys who have seen teams rise and fall many times do. Let's just leave it there until something actually happens. 

[DarthEbriate]

The Wild left Fleury in for 8 goals against tonight. Curious decision. 3-game skid and they were scuffling before that.

That might be another team that's willing to make a move early to jumpstart their season.

[Quint]

I just heard that Sneaky Pete is going to the HOF.

https://nypost.com/2023/11/12/sports/hall-of-fame-bound-pierre-turgeon-was-a-bright-spot-for-islanders/

[Warriorspikes51]

2 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

The Wild left Fleury in for 8 goals against tonight. Curious decision. 3-game skid and they were scuffling before that.

That might be another team that's willing to make a move early to jumpstart their season.

What’s his cap hit? I’d move Comrie and bring him in. Perhaps with Foligno (though unlikely they’d move him)

[Warriorspikes51]

I know it’s extremely unlikely….but if the Oilers continue to implode, McDavid could ask for a trade in the summer

make a call and open the discussions

Power, Cozens, Savoie, Benson, 1st

I’d expect they’d want Dahlin or Tage though

we are one of the few teams who could take his $$ and have trade pieces 

he wanted to be a Leaf or Sabre on draft night. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[LGR4GM]

7 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

I know it’s extremely unlikely….but if the Oilers continue to implode, McDavid could ask for a trade in the summer

make a call and open the discussions

Power, Cozens, Savoie, Benson, 1st

I’d expect they’d want Dahlin or Tage though

we are one of the few teams who could take his $$ and have trade pieces 

he wanted to be a Leaf or Sabre on draft night. 

The weird poetry of tanking for McDavid, only to trade for him later. 

[PASabreFan]

8 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

I know it’s extremely unlikely….but if the Oilers continue to implode, McDavid could ask for a trade in the summer

make a call and open the discussions

Power, Cozens, Savoie, Benson, 1st

I’d expect they’d want Dahlin or Tage though

we are one of the few teams who could take his $$ and have trade pieces 

he wanted to be a Leaf or Sabre on draft night. 

You're an Oilers fan. You have the best player in the world and one of the greatest of all time. Are you happy with that haul? I'm not sure Dahlin and Power and Thompson would be enough. Can we get real in these trade scenarios?

[SDS]

9 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

You're an Oilers fan. You have the best player in the world and one of the greatest of all time. Are you happy with that haul? I'm not sure Dahlin and Power and Thompson would be enough. Can we get real in these trade scenarios?

I don’t think you can trade him and receive fair compensation. That’s too many bodies going one-way and only getting one back in return.

[Porous Five Hole]

10 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

You're an Oilers fan. You have the best player in the world and one of the greatest of all time. Are you happy with that haul? I'm not sure Dahlin and Power and Thompson would be enough. Can we get real in these trade scenarios?

Five first round equivalents is a lot though. 

[Taro T]

40 minutes ago, SDS said:

I don’t think you can trade him and receive fair compensation. That’s too many bodies going one-way and only getting one back in return.

Yep.  IF they're trading McDavid (or Draisaitl for that matter), they're doing a reset and changing the overall direction of the team to go from 2 extremely skilled guys with whatever supporting them to trying to build an actual team.  (Which, personally have no faith that Holland at this stage still knows how to do, but that's besides the point.)

And considering how good McDavid is, really don't see any way that the Eulers get TRUE equivalent value for him.  Should they wait 2 years to trade him, when he's heading into / is into the last year of his contract; they won't even get reasonably close to equivalent value.  They'll get similar (but probably slightly better because McDavid is still the best player in the league and Gretzky, while still good, wasn't still miles ahead of all that didn't wear 66) to what the Kings got for 99 because there's no guarantee that he'll stay with the team that gets him.

[Marvin]

10 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

I know it’s extremely unlikely….but if the Oilers continue to implode, McDavid could ask for a trade in the summer

make a call and open the discussions

Power, Cozens, Savoie, Benson, 1st

I’d expect they’d want Dahlin or Tage though

we are one of the few teams who could take his $$ and have trade pieces 

he wanted to be a Leaf or Sabre on draft night. 

 

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

You're an Oilers fan. You have the best player in the world and one of the greatest of all time. Are you happy with that haul? I'm not sure Dahlin and Power and Thompson would be enough. Can we get real in these trade scenarios?

McDavid has a full NMC.  That severely limits the return.  Think about the Hasek trade to Detroit compared to his actual worth to both teams.

Also, RNH and Draisaitl should be going before McDavid.  Those returns would indicate is the Sabres can get away with a "futures" deal.

[Broken Ankles]

4 hours ago, Marvin said:

 

McDavid has a full NMC.  That severely limits the return.  Think about the Hasek trade to Detroit compared to his actual worth to both teams.

Also, RNH and Draisaitl should be going before McDavid.  Those returns would indicate is the Sabres can get away with a "futures" deal.

For me, this is where the rubber meets the road.  If the Oilers miss the playoffs completely and Leon chooses not to resign and test UFA, then McDavid could force a rebuild scenario.  McDavid might not want to play his last season without him, assuming Leon Ops out after 2025.  Which means you are buying only one year of term so the return could be short of Eichel, who had 4 years of prime term.  Two good players and two picks.  Maybe conditional 1st or Second rounders.  And another big if, is how well our team is progressing, bc as you said, he has a full NMC.  If Buffalo isn’t showing real growth on its own, McDavid would ixnay any trade to the 716. 
 

[DarthEbriate]

16 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

What’s his cap hit? I’d move Comrie and bring him in. Perhaps with Foligno (though unlikely they’d move him)

$3.5M with a NMC.

[Thorny]

8 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Five first round equivalents is a lot though. 

Didn’t we ask and basically get 4 for Eichel? And we still got ripped off. McDavid should be worth a lot more 

[K-9]

8 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

You're an Oilers fan. You have the best player in the world and one of the greatest of all time. Are you happy with that haul? I'm not sure Dahlin and Power and Thompson would be enough. Can we get real in these trade scenarios?

Reminds me of the days when Sabres fans thought Christian Ruutu and a couple scrubs were gonna fetch Gretzky before he was traded to the Kings. 😂

[Porous Five Hole]

18 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Didn’t we ask and basically get 4 for Eichel? And we still got ripped off. McDavid should be worth a lot more 

From the Oilers perspective, the only logical play to move on from McD/Drai is to gain cap flexibility to make their team not so top heavy.
 

Assuming Edmonton is requiring cap flexibility as part of their ask (not a dollar in for a dollar out trade), that will reduce their trade partners and trade value. Most teams cannot take on half of McDavid’s salary, let alone the majority. 

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

From the Oilers perspective, the only logical play to move on from McD/Drai is to gain cap flexibility to make their team not so top heavy.
 

Assuming Edmonton is requiring cap flexibility as part of their ask (not a dollar in for a dollar out trade), that will reduce their trade partners and trade value. Most teams cannot take on half of McDavid’s salary, let alone the majority. 

So putting yourself into a position where you must trade a player this good seems like a guaranteed losing position to be in, is what I’m gathering 

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Reminds me of the days when Sabres fans thought Christian Ruutu and a couple scrubs were gonna fetch Gretzky before he was traded to the Kings. 😂

They should've known Ruuttu and a couple of scrubs wasn't worth arguably the best F in history.  He and a draft pick was the going rate for the best GOALIE in history.

Sheesh, they were SOOOOOOOOOOOO far off.  🤣