Around the NHL 2023-24 Season

[Porous Five Hole]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Really don't see how they get an offer on Mittelstadt that makes the team better TODAY.  Also don't see how his not being extended in the 2nd week of November is indicative of an impasse.  (There could be one, but that seems to be more of a case of people still hoping that Mittelstadt goes away even though he's been nearly a PPG player for the last 2 months of RS play and arguably their best 2 way forward for at least that long.  1st impressions are very hard to change.  And that isn't saying that YOU are saying this because you don't like him, but it still seems to be a fairly common sentiment generally and that comment was addressing the general audience not you specifically.)  Remember, Cozens didn't sign his deal until February of the last year of his ELC.  Would be pleasantly surprised should Casey be extended before this February.  And will be disappointed if it doesn't happen prior to the summer.

And yes, Adams should have ALL the players on the team available for a trade and understanding what their value is around the league.  But it's very doubtful that they'll get an offer that makes the team better today by moving Dahlin or Thompson or a few others.  Expecting Casey is in that category as well.

I’ll play fantasy hockey for a minute.  
 

How about Mitts, Kulich, Savoie, and a first for Drai? The Oilers would might be better off spreading 13M around the roster and four first round pieces helps to kickstart a mini rebuild.  

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

I’ll play fantasy hockey for a minute.  
 

How about Mitts, Kulich, Savoie, and a first for Drai? The Oilers would might be better off spreading 13M around the roster and four first round pieces helps to kickstart a mini rebuild.  

When you talk Ken Holland into making that offer, will consider it.  Until then, it remains in fantasy hockeyland and the original comment stands.

[Doohickie]

8 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

How about Mitts, Kulich, Savoie, and a first for Drai? The Oilers would might be better off spreading 13M around the roster and four first round pieces helps to kickstart a mini rebuild.  

Would that shift the Sabres toward a situation similar to the one Edmonton is finding themselves in?

[Porous Five Hole]

2 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Would that shift the Sabres toward a situation similar to the one Edmonton is finding themselves in?

When McDavid signs his extension, it’ll be for the cost that would equal both Tage & Cozens.  Buffalo is one of the few teams who could pull this off.  

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Benson is a wing and it's likely Savoie is an nhl winger. Kulich actually has the best chance to develop into a center, although he's also likely a winger. Injuries happen, having Mitts right now is making Cozens being out tolerable. None of the kids need new deals for at least 3 years. 

Well it's true, since face offs don't matter for the Sabres, they are all wings. So too many wings then. How ever you want to draw it up it's too many similar guys looking for the same spots on the roster. Something has to give. 

As for needing new deals, that is correct, but if you're a good GM you also have to be projecting forward and you make moves to avoid a moment with too many deals at once. You want your contracts coming on and off the books to be staggered. 

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, Taro T said:

Really don't see how they get an offer on Mittelstadt that makes the team better TODAY.  Also don't see how his not being extended in the 2nd week of November is indicative of an impasse.  (There could be one, but that seems to be more of a case of people still hoping that Mittelstadt goes away even though he's been nearly a PPG player for the last 2 months of RS play and arguably their best 2 way forward for at least that long.  1st impressions are very hard to change.  And that isn't saying that YOU are saying this because you don't like him, but it still seems to be a fairly common sentiment generally and that comment was addressing the general audience not you specifically.)  Remember, Cozens didn't sign his deal until February of the last year of his ELC.  Would be pleasantly surprised should Casey be extended before this February.  And will be disappointed if it doesn't happen prior to the summer.

And yes, Adams should have ALL the players on the team available for a trade and understanding what their value is around the league.  But it's very doubtful that they'll get an offer that makes the team better today by moving Dahlin or Thompson or a few others.  Expecting Casey is in that category as well.

My impasse comments were just hypothetical "if" comments. We have no way to know on contract discussions but you can speculate for conversation sake. So IF there is an impasse there could be a scenario. Trade for a goalie? Top 4 D? There are possibilities. 

The real point for me is we have a lot of offensive players in the system and unless we just squander them somebody will get moved somewhere at some point. Assets are assets. 

[LGR4GM]

18 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well it's true, since face offs don't matter for the Sabres, they are all wings. So too many wings then. How ever you want to draw it up it's too many similar guys looking for the same spots on the roster. Something has to give. 

As for needing new deals, that is correct, but if you're a good GM you also have to be projecting forward and you make moves to avoid a moment with too many deals at once. You want your contracts coming on and off the books to be staggered. 

Matthew Savoie, Jiri Kulich, and Zach Benson do not play hockey the same way and are not similar. 

Their entry level deals will all end in 3 (4 really) years regardless (sure we could slide Benson's 1 additional year), what is Adams supposed to do? Sign them to not entry level deals? 

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, Porous Five Hole said:

I’ll play fantasy hockey for a minute.  
 

How about Mitts, Kulich, Savoie, and a first for Drai? The Oilers would might be better off spreading 13M around the roster and four first round pieces helps to kickstart a mini rebuild.  

 

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

When you talk Ken Holland into making that offer, will consider it.  Until then, it remains in fantasy hockeyland and the original comment stands.

 

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

Would that shift the Sabres toward a situation similar to the one Edmonton is finding themselves in?

There are discussions like this on HFBoards from Edmonton fans about the Sabres specifically.  Some think the price for Draisaitl should be Power, Cozens, Levi, and then some.  Add more for McDavid.  No go from me.

Do we want to go to Fantasy Island and speculate on this?  Fun?  Wow?  I personally think that the Sabres should look for mostly futures if they are entertaining getting either one.

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

My impasse comments were just hypothetical "if" comments. We have no way to know on contract discussions but you can speculate for conversation sake. So IF there is an impasse there could be a scenario. Trade for a goalie? Top 4 D? There are possibilities. 

The real point for me is we have a lot of offensive players in the system and unless we just squander them somebody will get moved somewhere at some point. Assets are assets. 

Yes, that is a given.  (One can say it's speculation because it hasn't happened yet, but it's actually a given.)

Just don't see 1. any way Mittelstadt gets moved this season unless Adams goes COMPLETELY off the board and goes against his oft-stated plan and makes a blockbuster trade; and 

2. don't see any realistic way based upon the way Adams prefers to build a team that a Mittelstadt trade gets made for something that is a true hockey trade of a top 6 C for either a 1G or a top 4D.  

Though the board is slowly coming around on Mittelstadt, Adams and Granato have been high on him for a long time.  He isn't eligible to become a UFA for another 2-1/2 seasons.  He doesn't even qualify to become a UFA after next season.  It literally is 2-1/2 years away.  There is no rush AT ALL to trade him away now 'before he loses value.'  Actually, the way he's played the past 2-3 months of RS play, his value is only going to go up or remain constant with time.

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, Marvin said:

 

 

There are discussions like this on HFBoards from Edmonton fans about the Sabres specifically.  Some think the price for Draisaitl should be Power, Cozens, Levi, and then some.  Add more for McDavid.  No go from me.

Do we want to go to Fantasy Island and speculate on this?  Fun?  Wow?  I personally think that the Sabres should look for mostly futures if they are entertaining getting either one.

Power Cozens Levi for Draisaitl? No

for McDavid? That’s an absolute yes from me 

He’s the best player in the world by far, we’d actually be surrounding him with depth, and all it takes to upgrade from Cozens, a second liner, to maybe the best player of all time is a guy who’s currently playing like a back up and a guy who’s currently playing like a second paid D man.

Power would hurt the most given his LT potential, and specifically his floor potential, but a deal for McDavid (if he wants to be here, shout-out to my man Adams) would have us contending for the cup this season 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorny]

Peterka - McDavid - Quinn

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch

Greenway - Mittelstadt - Benson

Girgensons - Krebs - Okposo

..unstoppable

Johnson - Dahlin

Samuelsson - Jokiharju

Clifton - Johnson

..still good

6k

..still 6k’ing

- - - 

Obviously won’t happen but it’s fun to think about 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Thorny

[Brawndo]

Zach Bogosian to Minnesota per Kevin Weekes 

[Weave]

16 minutes ago, Marvin said:

 

 

There are discussions like this on HFBoards from Edmonton fans about the Sabres specifically.  Some think the price for Draisaitl should be Power, Cozens, Levi, and then some.  Add more for McDavid.  No go from me.

Do we want to go to Fantasy Island and speculate on this?  Fun?  Wow?  I personally think that the Sabres should look for mostly futures if they are entertaining getting either one.

Clearly the value has been set for the two equivalent top of the 2015 draft players at Tuch, Krebs, and lottery tickets.  Surely Draisaitl can’t be worth  any more than a late round goalie prospect, and a first round pick.

[Thorny]

Just now, Brawndo said:

Zach Bogosian to Minnesota per Kevin Weekes 

[French Collection]

Wild get Bogo for a 2025 7th round pick after they dealt Addison to San Jose for minor leaguer Haska and a 2026 5th round pick.

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/minnesota-wild-acquire-zach-bogosian-from-tampa-bay-lightning-for-2025-seventh-round-pick-1.2032964

 

[Taro T]

44 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Wild get Bogo for a 2025 7th round pick after they dealt Addison to San Jose for minor leaguer Haska and a 2026 5th round pick.

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/minnesota-wild-acquire-zach-bogosian-from-tampa-bay-lightning-for-2025-seventh-round-pick-1.2032964

 

Just in time for him to try to check Savoie through the boards like he unsuccessfully tried to do to Benson.  😒

[mjd1001]

Not quite at the 20 game mark where a lot of people start to make judgements about teams more definitively, but a month in so some things are noticable:

-Is San Jose the worst team in the modern NHL era? Possibly the worst team in major NA professional sports in the last 50 years?  They are 'on pace' for 20 points for the year, and that is AFTER getting their first win last night.

-Boston, NYR, and Vegas are near the top of the league.  Are they the most talented teams in the league? maybe not, but one thing they all do have is a large number of their important players (ice time leader, especially on the back end) at the age where they are in the prime of their careers (a lot of experience, but yet not 'over the hill' old)

When you are 'ready to win', maybe a lot of us under-rate the value of brining in quality (not stars but not journeymen) forward in their late 20's or D-men in their late 20's to early 30's.

-Ottawa started out hot but now has lost 4 of their last 5.  Is the front office turmoil impacting the team on the ice?  They should be better than what they are showing recently.

-Washington is the opposite of Ottawa, started out looking 'done' but now has won 4 of their last 5.  With 3 of those games including 1 goal wins over Columbus and Minnesota, and a 2 goal win over San Jose, I'm not sure I'm believing in the yet. And Ovi with 2 goals in 10 games isn't going to cut it in terms of record chasing.

-Edmonton...Stanley cup or Bust this year right?  Some betting sites had them as a top-4 favorite to win the cup before the year started.  Well, 2w and 9L with the worst goal differential next to San Jose...something gotta change there right?  McDavid missed 2 games, but that doesn't excuse the way that team is playing.

-Austin Matthews with 13 goals in 12 games so far, 70 possible or likely this year?  He has 40 goals last year playing with a couple of nagging injuries.  Last time he was healthy 2 seasons ago he had 60 goals in 73 games. That year he scored 0.822 goals per game. If he plays the rest of this year scoring at the same goals per game he did in 21-22, he would end up with 71.

-Teuvo Teravainen. 8 goals and just 1 assist. If you are good enough to be on the ice for 8 goals for, don't you have more than 1 assist just by accident even?

-The Kings look for real. Just 7 wins so far puts the tied for 6th-10th in the league, but they just seem solid top to bottom. Kinda playing like a Western Conference version of the 'Bruins lite'. Not exactly the same style of play as boston, but just solid all around/few weaknesses, roll guys out there with no real susperstars anymore but the job gets done.

Do we have a slight uptick in fighting this year? I can't find the exact numbers, but last year there were only 4 players with over 5 major penalties (of any kind) the whole year, and 14 guys averaged more than 1 penalty minute per game. This year there are 4 guys with 3 fights through one month, and in terms of total PM's 41 guys are averaging over 1 penalty minute per game.  2 match penalties this year through one month...last year there were a total of 3 for the entire year. So maybe fighting, maybe just a lot more 'chippy' play.

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by mjd1001

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, French Collection said:

Wild get Bogo for a 2025 7th round pick after they dealt Addison to San Jose for minor leaguer Haska and a 2026 5th round pick.

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/minnesota-wild-acquire-zach-bogosian-from-tampa-bay-lightning-for-2025-seventh-round-pick-1.2032964

 

[Flashsabre]

3 hours ago, Marvin said:

 

 

There are discussions like this on HFBoards from Edmonton fans about the Sabres specifically.  Some think the price for Draisaitl should be Power, Cozens, Levi, and then some.  Add more for McDavid.  No go from me.

Do we want to go to Fantasy Island and speculate on this?  Fun?  Wow?  I personally think that the Sabres should look for mostly futures if they are entertaining getting either one.

Gretzky and and Jagr didn’t get traded for nearly that value.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

Not quite at the 20 game mark where a lot of people start to make judgements about teams more definitively, but a month in so some things are noticable:

-Is San Jose the worst team in the modern NHL era? Possibly the worst team in major NA professional sports in the last 50 years?  They are 'on pace' for 20 points for the year, and that is AFTER getting their first win last night.

-Boston, NYR, and Vegas are near the top of the league.  Are they the most talented teams in the league? maybe not, but one thing they all do have is a large number of their important players (ice time leader, especially on the back end) at the age where they are in the prime of their careers (a lot of experience, but yet not 'over the hill' old)

When you are 'ready to win', maybe a lot of us under-rate the value of brining in quality (not stars but not journeymen) forward in their late 20's or D-men in their late 20's to early 30's.

-Ottawa started out hot but now has lost 4 of their last 5.  Is the front office turmoil impacting the team on the ice?  They should be better than what they are showing recently.

-Washington is the opposite of Ottawa, started out looking 'done' but now has won 4 of their last 5.  With 3 of those games including 1 goal wins over Columbus and Minnesota, and a 2 goal win over San Jose, I'm not sure I'm believing in the yet. And Ovi with 2 goals in 10 games isn't going to cut it in terms of record chasing.

-Edmonton...Stanley cup or Bust this year right?  Some betting sites had them as a top-4 favorite to win the cup before the year started.  Well, 2w and 9L with the worst goal differential next to San Jose...something gotta change there right?  McDavid missed 2 games, but that doesn't excuse the way that team is playing.

-Austin Matthews with 13 goals in 12 games so far, 70 possible or likely this year?  He has 40 goals last year playing with a couple of nagging injuries.  Last time he was healthy 2 seasons ago he had 60 goals in 73 games. That year he scored 0.822 goals per game. If he plays the rest of this year scoring at the same goals per game he did in 21-22, he would end up with 71.

-Teuvo Teravainen. 8 goals and just 1 assist. If you are good enough to be on the ice for 8 goals for, don't you have more than 1 assist just by accident even?

-The Kings look for real. Just 7 wins so far puts the tied for 6th-10th in the league, but they just seem solid top to bottom. Kinda playing like a Western Conference version of the 'Bruins lite'. Not exactly the same style of play as boston, but just solid all around/few weaknesses, roll guys out there with no real susperstars anymore but the job gets done.

Do we have a slight uptick in fighting this year? I can't find the exact numbers, but last year there were only 4 players with over 5 major penalties (of any kind) the whole year, and 14 guys averaged more than 1 penalty minute per game. This year there are 4 guys with 3 fights through one month, and in terms of total PM's 41 guys are averaging over 1 penalty minute per game.  2 match penalties this year through one month...last year there were a total of 3 for the entire year. So maybe fighting, maybe just a lot more 'chippy' play.

 

Too early to say on the SJ season, but there have been some truly horrific NHL & NFL teams in the NHL's "modern" era and the NFL's "post-merger" era.

The mid-70's give us the '74-'75 Capitals and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in '76 & '77 that went 2-26 over the franchise's 1st 2 seasons.  Those squads get this vote.

More recently, in the NFL, the '08 Lions went 0-16 and followed that with a 2-14 year and the '17 Browns followed up the '16 Browns 1 win season with a 0-16 season.

The Losipeg Jets had an absolutely brutal 2nd season going 9-57-14.  The Otters and Snarks had some truly brutal teams in the '90s.

[Marvin]

For the record: the worst season by winning percentage in a professional North American hockey league was the 1974-5 Washington Crapitals, who went 8-67-5.  I can dig out a complete list of all sub-.250 teams if you really want to view the wreckage.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Marvin
Spell checker took out a very important "r".

[PerreaultForever]

10 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Matthew Savoie, Jiri Kulich, and Zach Benson do not play hockey the same way and are not similar. 

Depends how you look at it and what parameters you use. 

[PerreaultForever]

10 hours ago, Taro T said:

Yes, that is a given.  (One can say it's speculation because it hasn't happened yet, but it's actually a given.)

Just don't see 1. any way Mittelstadt gets moved this season unless Adams goes COMPLETELY off the board and goes against his oft-stated plan and makes a blockbuster trade; and 

2. don't see any realistic way based upon the way Adams prefers to build a team that a Mittelstadt trade gets made for something that is a true hockey trade of a top 6 C for either a 1G or a top 4D.  

Though the board is slowly coming around on Mittelstadt, Adams and Granato have been high on him for a long time.  He isn't eligible to become a UFA for another 2-1/2 seasons.  He doesn't even qualify to become a UFA after next season.  It literally is 2-1/2 years away.  There is no rush AT ALL to trade him away now 'before he loses value.'  Actually, the way he's played the past 2-3 months of RS play, his value is only going to go up or remain constant with time.

Ya, unless he decides to hold out. Sabres get Nylandered. I can see it happening. 

[Taro T]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Ya, unless he decides to hold out. Sabres get Nylandered. I can see it happening. 

TWO YEARS and 70 GAMES FROM NOW is when he can become a UFA.  Both he and the team can elect arbitration before then.  There is no reason at all to EXPECT him to hold out.

Again, 1st impressions are very hard to overcome.

[French Collection]

Leafs lost 6-3 to Ottawa last night. They are only one point ahead of the Sabres for the 8th spot in the conference with the same number of games played.

Stringing a few wins together here would do wonders for everyone’s morale.