We need to talk about Zach Benson making the team this year, 2023

[RochesterExpat]

26 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Either way it’s nice to have options 

It’s been a long road to get here.

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, RochesterExpat said:

It’s been a long road to get here.

That it has 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

Olofsson is the most likely player that Benson would be replacing in the Forward Group. When they were in the playoff push last year at the end of the season, VO was a healthy scratch for almost all of those games.

Actually, he would be replacing Quinn.  I posted this up-thread as well.  Rousek, Biro, and Benson are competing for Quinn's top 9 slot.  DG is committed to Mitts at center, which knocks Krebs to the 4C and Jost to the press box.  The 4th line of Z, Krebs, and Ko returns from last season. If you then allocate Skinner to TNT, Tuch to Cozens, and put the Minn boys Mitts and Greenway together, that leaves only JJP and VO to allocate from the returning forwards.  This leaves a nice opening in the top 9 for Benson if KA chooses to go this route. 

Given that Benson has mostly skated with Skinner and TNT, the opening lineup might look like this:

Skinner TNT Benson

JJP Cozens Tuch

VO Mitts Greenway

Z Krebs Okposo (Jost)

[Brawndo]

45 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Actually, he would be replacing Quinn.  I posted this up-thread as well.  Rousek, Biro, and Benson are competing for Quinn's top 9 slot.  DG is committed to Mitts at center, which knocks Krebs to the 4C and Jost to the press box.  The 4th line of Z, Krebs, and Ko returns from last season. If you then allocate Skinner to TNT, Tuch to Cozens, and put the Minn boys Mitts and Greenway together, that leaves only JJP and VO to allocate from the returning forwards.  This leaves a nice opening in the top 9 for Benson if KA chooses to go this route. 

Given that Benson has mostly skated with Skinner and TNT, the opening lineup might look like this:

Skinner TNT Benson

JJP Cozens Tuch

VO Mitts Greenway

Z Krebs Okposo (Jost)

Skinner-TNT-Tuch

JJP-Cozens-Krebs

Greenway-Mitts-Benson

Zemgus-Jost-Okposo

 

VO or Biro the 13th Forwsrd. 
 

As good as Benson has been, some games lower in the lineup would be a better introduction to the regular season

As great as Skinner and Tage are, their defense leaves a lot to be desired. Expecting an 18 year old to fill Tuch’s Spot is a tall ask

Krebs has shown defensive responsibility and playmaking ability, moving Him up with Cozens and JJP is worth a try

Mitts gets Benson to start the season, an upgrade at 5v5 over VO 

Jost, who had some of the best defensive metrics on the team last season, rounds out the shutdown line. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

@Brawndo , having Benson in lower in the lineup and using Krebs or Mitts on the wing would be my preference as well, but that doesn’t seem like the road DG is traveling. He has been very clear that Mitts will be at center and I think Krebs has been at center each preseason game he has played as well.

[Punch]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

Skinner-TNT-Tuch

JJP-Cozens-Krebs

Greenway-Mitts-Benson

Zemgus-Jost-Okposo

 

VO or Biro the 13th Forwsrd. 
 

As good as Benson has been, some games lower in the lineup would be a better introduction to the regular season

As great as Skinner and Tage are, their defense leaves a lot to be desired. Expecting an 18 year old to fill Tuch’s Spot is a tall ask

Krebs has shown defensive responsibility and playmaking ability, moving Him up with Cozens and JJP is worth a try

Mitts gets Benson to start the season, an upgrade at 5v5 over VO 

Jost, who had some of the best defensive metrics on the team last season, rounds out the shutdown line. 

Great post, it has what plants crave.

[SabresBillsFan]

Don’t get me wrong, we have all been surprised on how well Benson has done. Yes, he needs to add more muscle but it isn’t like Bedard is a big guy as well. I think the kid has been great but I wouldn’t be shocked if they send him back. Plus we don’t know what the plan is for Savoie as well. I think the plan might be for Savoie but who knows. It’s crazy to think that Kulich was most likely get a spot on the team and then here comes Benson and Biro. I’m really liking what’s in the pipeline. These kids need time but it seems like the scouting staff has done in excellent job. Now what to do with VO and whatever goalie who doesn’t win the backup role. 

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, SabresBillsFan said:

Don’t get me wrong, we have all been surprised on how well Benson has done. Yes, he needs to add more muscle but it isn’t like Bedard is a big guy as well. I think the kid has been great but I wouldn’t be shocked if they send him back. Plus we don’t know what the plan is for Savoie as well. I think the plan might be for Savoie but who knows. It’s crazy to think that Kulich was most likely get a spot on the team and then here comes Benson and Biro. I’m really liking what’s in the pipeline. These kids need time but it seems like the scouting staff has done in excellent job. Now what to do with VO and whatever goalie who doesn’t win the backup role. 

I don't think that was ever true. Kulich was just overhyped by fans but I think management knew his 2 way game still needs lots of work and he's not nhl ready. 

Sidenote: I think Bedard will struggle at times due to his size at 18, but Bedard is better skater and one of the best releases I've ever seen. Benson would need to upgrade his hands and his skating.

[JohnC]

11 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Actually, he would be replacing Quinn.  I posted this up-thread as well.  Rousek, Biro, and Benson are competing for Quinn's top 9 slot.  DG is committed to Mitts at center, which knocks Krebs to the 4C and Jost to the press box.  The 4th line of Z, Krebs, and Ko returns from last season. If you then allocate Skinner to TNT, Tuch to Cozens, and put the Minn boys Mitts and Greenway together, that leaves only JJP and VO to allocate from the returning forwards.  This leaves a nice opening in the top 9 for Benson if KA chooses to go this route. 

Given that Benson has mostly skated with Skinner and TNT, the opening lineup might look like this:

Skinner TNT Benson

JJP Cozens Tuch

VO Mitts Greenway

Z Krebs Okposo (Jost)

Your projected lineup is plausible. However, I don't see DG tampering with last year's first line. It was too prolific to alter this year. I agree with you that it appears that the coach is committed to keeping Mitts at center. On which line and assemblage? I'm not sure. But the better players he's with the more effective he is. 

When assessing the players who will make the roster what becomes evident is that there is a lot of lineup flexibility where centers can play the wing and wings can play the center position. 

Over the past few years, this roster has significantly changed. If you compare the before Eichel and old core trades to now, it is a dramatic change. What's exciting about this roster is that there is still so much more upside to it!

[JohnC]

Attached is a link from a Buffalo News article by Mike Harrington. He basically brings up the same roster questions that we discuss here. He puts Comrie ahead of UPL but believes that all three goalies will make the roster. He feels that there are a few teams that have goalie needs who would claim him if exposed.  

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/column/zach-benson-buffalo-sabres-nhl-don-granato-brandon-biro-rochester-americans/article_868299b6-5fbb-11ee-aa08-a309b798c3b0.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

[GASabresIUFAN]

Are we really worried about losing any of Biro, Bryson, Clague, Comrie or UPL to waivers? These are all AAAA players at best.  

If Bryson is waived, he is unlikely to get claimed because of his cap hit.  If claimed, Johnson or Davies become the 9th D.  I can live with that.  Johnson is probably the 7th best D in the organization right now anyway.

If UPL or Comrie are waived and claimed, Tokarski becomes the 3rd goalie and his NHL and AHL numbers are better than UPLs anyway and I like what I’ve seen from Cooley as well.  Cooley’s AHL number are better than UPL’s also.  (Also if KA plans to dump either UPL or Comrie, he’ll find a trade partner.  He’ll gets at least a late round pick).  

As to Biro, if claimed, we won’t notice he’s gone.  Rousek, Kulich and Rosen are waiver exempt.  Murray is also still around and we have two new AHLers who earned callups last year in Richards and Giroux.

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Weave]

13 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Are we really worried about losing any of Biro, Bryson, Clague, Comrie or UPL to waivers? These are all AAAA players at best.  

Correct me if I am wrong, but weren’t you the guy losing his ***** over losing Josh Bloom?  Of course losing any of those to waivers is going to result in over reaction.

[That Aud Smell]

11 hours ago, Brawndo said:

JJP-Cozens-Krebs

Krebs has shown defensive responsibility and playmaking ability, moving Him up with Cozens and JJP is worth a try

This one makes me a little queasy. But it would be worth a try. There's not a lot of downside there, I think, because Krebs is becoming a solid defensive forward. But I wonder how much push they'd get.

[Mustache of God]

12 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Actually, he would be replacing Quinn.  I posted this up-thread as well.  Rousek, Biro, and Benson are competing for Quinn's top 9 slot.  DG is committed to Mitts at center, which knocks Krebs to the 4C and Jost to the press box.  The 4th line of Z, Krebs, and Ko returns from last season. If you then allocate Skinner to TNT, Tuch to Cozens, and put the Minn boys Mitts and Greenway together, that leaves only JJP and VO to allocate from the returning forwards.  This leaves a nice opening in the top 9 for Benson if KA chooses to go this route. 

Given that Benson has mostly skated with Skinner and TNT, the opening lineup might look like this:

Skinner TNT Benson

JJP Cozens Tuch

VO Mitts Greenway

Z Krebs Okposo (Jost)

Putting Benson on our top line would be a mistake. This line is going to be drawing the opposing teams top line and there's no way Benson will be ready for that on a nightly basis. It'd also be a mistake to take Tuch off that line, classic case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

21 minutes ago, Weave said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but weren’t you the guy losing his ***** over losing Josh Bloom?  Of course losing any of those to waivers is going to result in over reaction.

Apples to Oranges.  I was pissed that KA didn't bring in a real D to help this team for a playoff run.  Instead, he wasted a prospect on a bad hockey player who is still a bad hockey player.  I'd be just fine if we added Stillman to our waiver wire and wouldn't miss him at all if he were gone.  

Edited October 2, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[French Collection]

12 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

This one makes me a little queasy. But it would be worth a try. There's not a lot of downside there, I think, because Krebs is becoming a solid defensive forward. But I wonder how much push they'd get.

Krebs struggled at wing 2 years ago but he is a different player now, it may be worth a try. This setup gives DG faceoff options too.

[French Collection]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Apples to Oranges.  I was pissed that KA didn't in a real D to help this team for a playoff run.  Instead, he wasted a prospect on a bad hockey player who is still a bad hockey player.  I'd be just fine if we added Stillman to our waiver wire and wouldn't miss him at all if he were gone.  

I think Stillman will be OK as a 7D this season. He has warts but I would rather keep his grit than having Bryson as a 7. RJ will be ready for later in the season, which may push these guys further down the depth chart.

I believe Clague would get claimed before Bryson due to salary.

[Weave]

13 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Apples to Oranges.  I was pissed that KA didn't bring in a real D to help this team for a playoff run.  Instead, he wasted a prospect on a bad hockey player who is still a bad hockey player.  I'd be just fine if we added Stillman to our waiver wire and wouldn't miss him at all if he were gone.  

Losing Josh Frickin Bloom absolutely was a pain point bringing hysteria.  And we got something in return.  Tou have a short memory if we lose a 4A guy to waivers and you think the reaction will be “meh”.  Bank on it.

Regardless, we’re losing one of those.  And I would be absolutely shocked if UPL or Comrie is exposed to waivers, so the list is shorter.

I can hear the cries of “bad asset management “ in the distance already.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Weave

[GASabresIUFAN]

15 minutes ago, Weave said:

Losing Josh Frickin Bloom absolutely was a pain point bringing hysteria.  And we got something in return.  Tou have a short memory if we lose a 4A guy to waivers and you think the reaction will be “meh”.  Bank on it.

Regardless, we’re losing one of those.  And I would be absolutely shocked if UPL or Comrie is exposed to waivers, so the list is shorter.

I can hear the cries of “bad asset management “ in the distance already.

Bad asset management is trading a prospect for a player the quality of what you can get on the waiver wire for nothing.  

Truthfully, we should be happy to lose any of these guys.  None make our team better, none have any trade value except maybe the goalies, and all are easily replaced by others in the system, many of which actually have upside.  

[inkman]

44 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

This one makes me a little queasy. But it would be worth a try. There's not a lot of downside there, I think, because Krebs is becoming a solid defensive forward. But I wonder how much push they'd get.

Krebs finishing ability also come into question.  I don’t want to label his shot as pathetically weak but it ain’t great. 

[RochesterExpat]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't think that was ever true. Kulich was just overhyped by fans but I think management knew his 2 way game still needs lots of work and he's not nhl ready. 

Kulich is impressive enough given his age, but he's still a tier below Quinn/Peterka/Benson. Kulich's contract also slides again this season (as opposed to Rosen's which doesn't). Let him sit another year in the AHL to work on his 200' game and buy a little time on the salary cap window while you're at it. It's much better than placing him on the 4th line in the NHL as far as his development is concerned.

 

54 minutes ago, Mustache of God said:

Putting Benson on our top line would be a mistake. This line is going to be drawing the opposing teams top line and there's no way Benson will be ready for that on a nightly basis. It'd also be a mistake to take Tuch off that line, classic case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

I'm not sold on Benson getting a roster slot, but having him with Skinner and Thompson enables DG to pair Tuch and Cozens together with (presumably) Peterka. That's going to be more difficult for other teams to matchup against since it almost becomes 1A & 1B instead of traditional first and second lines. It might take pressure off Thompson/Skinner. Still agree that it will be a serious test of Benson if that were to happen.

[K-9]

53 minutes ago, inkman said:

Krebs finishing ability also come into question.  I don’t want to label his shot as pathetically weak but it ain’t great. 

If you can’t, I will: his shot is pathetically, tragically weak.

[shrader]

The real test for Benson starts this week.  Any game time moving forward is going to be against a mostly full NHL roster.  At the very worst, its mostly NHL players and then some of those AAAA guys mentioned earlier.  It's much closer to the real thing than they've seen at any point so far.

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, shrader said:

The real test for Benson starts this week.  Any game time moving forward is going to be against a mostly full NHL roster.  At the very worst, its mostly NHL players and then some of those AAAA guys mentioned earlier.  It's much closer to the real thing than they've seen at any point so far.

He just played against a mostly full NHL roster and certainly a fully full NHL defense group. I am curious to see him in meaningful games once the season starts but it might wait depending on the plan Don and Kevyn have. 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Bad asset management is trading a prospect for a player the quality of what you can get on the waiver wire for nothing.  

Truthfully, we should be happy to lose any of these guys.  None make our team better, none have any trade value except maybe the goalies, and all are easily replaced by others in the system, many of which actually have upside.  

Whether Johnson supplants Stillman as the 7 now or later, Stillman is at worst the 8 on this squad and he will be the designated press box sitter when all are healthy while Johnson continues to hone his craft.

Having the '05-'06 season still in memory, there is no ####ing way anybody should be happy to see Stillman go away.  Losing Clague or Bryson for bupkis also wouldn't be a good look, but neither is getting claimed and they are at best 9 & 10 on the depth chart.  (They could slide to 10 & 11 by the time there are 3 D out at once.)

Personally, am still disappointed Lyubushkin is gone.  Wanted him and Stillman rounding out the top 8 while Johnson cooks some more in the A.