The Sabres are a surprisingly big hockey team

[dudacek]

This is the healthy starting 18 for the Buffalo Sabres, as listed by their camp roster. 

• 6’6 231 
• 6’4 231
• 6’4 225
• 6’6 220
• 6’4 219
• 6’6 218
• 6’0 218
• 6’3 202
• 6’2 200
• 6’0 200
• 5’11 197
• 6’3 195
• 6’1 195
• 5’11 190
• 6’0 189
• 6’0 187
• 6’1 185
• 5’11 181

Tell me again how this is a small hockey team.

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by dudacek

[Night Train]

[sabremike]

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

This is the healthy starting 18 for the Buffalo Sabres, as listed by their camp roster. 

• 6’6 231 
• 6’4 231
• 6’4 225
• 6’6 220
• 6’4 219
• 6’6 218
• 6’0 218
• 6’3 202
• 6’2 200
• 6’0 200
• 5’11 197
• 6’3 195
• 6’1 195
• 5’11 190
• 6’0 189
• 6’0 187
• 6’1 185
• 5’11 181

Tell me again how this is a small hockey team.

 

I think the running dialog is something like this:

• VO might score 20+ goals, but he needs to hit 200+ to be a worthy bottom-sixer.
• Tage plays small for 7' tall. More Tkachuk-like, please.
• The Buffalo statistician is notorious for under-recording hits, whereas the Isles guy note any bit of contact as a hit

[Zamboni]

But but but …. They don’t like …. Play big er somethin’

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

This is the healthy starting 18 for the Buffalo Sabres, as listed by their camp roster. 

• 6’6 231 
• 6’4 231
• 6’4 225
• 6’6 220
• 6’4 219
• 6’6 218
• 6’0 218
• 6’3 202
• 6’2 200
• 6’0 200
• 5’11 197
• 6’3 195
• 6’1 195
• 5’11 190
• 6’0 189
• 6’0 187
• 6’1 185
• 5’11 181

Tell me again how this is a small hockey team.

 

Who's who ??

I think you just made this up, eh.

[Mustache of God]

These numbers are meaningless of we don't have comparables for other teams.

[erickompositör72]

I brought this up last season. We have some big, skilled players.

[...]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Tell me again how this is a small hockey team.

That's people: once they have acquired a bias even when directly exposed to the truth they will not revise their thinking.

Edited September 23, 2023 by ...
Life is short. Drive fast and leave a sexy corpse.

[Doohickie]

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Mustache of God said:

These numbers are meaningless of we don't have comparables for other teams.

They haven't updated today rosters for this season but here

https://www.eliteprospects.com/league/nhl/teams-physical-stats/2022-2023

[PASabreFan]

SabreSpace

5'9 235

5'5 110

5'11 211 (ahem)

6'5 145

5'2 375

[pi2000]

Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.

[GASabresIUFAN]

People don’t say this is a small team.  They says it’s a transition team that isn’t very physical and can be hemmed in their own zone with physical forechecking.  KA agrees and brought in Johnson, Clifton, and Greenway to help change those facts. 

What they do say is that most of our top prospects are smaller players. Here is a look at the top skaters from the last 3 drafts. Heights and weights listed when drafted.

Our top 5 prospects are smaller forwards - Benson 5’9” 163, Savoie 5’9” 179, Östlund 5’10 163, Kulich 5’11” 172, and Rosen 5’11” 156. 

At forward we also have smaller forwards Kisakov (5’10” 150), Poltapov (5’11” 176), and Kozak (5’11” 173) in the pipeline.

The forward group isn’t exclusively small, but talent wise the majority are smaller.  The exceptions are Neuchev (6’2 165), Nadeau (6’2 204), and Wahlberg (6’3” 194).

Defense is another matter.  Power (6’6” 218). Strbak (6’2” 205), McCarthy (6’2” 185), Komarov (6’3” 188) and Novikov (6’3” 207) are all huge.  Only Lindgren (5’11 173) is on the smaller side. 

[LGR4GM]

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

People don’t say this is a small team.  They says it’s a transition team that isn’t very physical and can be hemmed in their own zone with physical forechecking.  KA agrees and brought in Johnson, Clifton, and Greenway to help change those facts. 

What they do say is that most of our top prospects are smaller players. Here is a look at the top skaters from the last 3 drafts. Heights and weights listed when drafted.

Our top 5 prospects are smaller forwards - Benson 5’9” 163, Savoie 5’9” 179, Östlund 5’10 163, Kulich 5’11” 172, and Rosen 5’11” 156. 

At forward we also have smaller forwards Kisakov (5’10” 150), Poltapov (5’11” 176), and Kozak (5’11” 173) in the pipeline.

The forward group isn’t exclusively small, but talent wise the majority are smaller.  The exceptions are Neuchev (6’2 165), Nadeau (6’2 204), and Wahlberg (6’3” 194).

Defense is another matter.  Power (6’6” 218). Strbak (6’2” 205), McCarthy (6’2” 185), Komarov (6’3” 188) and Novikov (6’3” 207) are all huge.  Only Lindgren (5’11 173) is on the smaller side. 

These heights and weights are not correct. I get you say "when drafted" but that's not accurate. It doesn't matter what they were when drafted but what they are and what they become. It really doesn't matter what their list h/w was drafted since a chunk of them were from covid years. Hell Neuchev's height was off by 3 inches. 

Here's what these guys are listed at by Buffalo right now, that's the important part. 

Benson 5’10” 170,

Savoie 5’10” 170,

Östlund 5’10 163, (don't have updated stats)

Kulich 6'1” 186, and

Rosen 6'0" 173. 

Neuchev is 5'11" 171lbs

[Quint]

But they are last in the NHL in hits. Poor in faceoffs too. The iffy situation in goal is also concerning. These problems should be addressed.

[That Aud Smell]

Tall.

But do they play heavy?

More Mike Peca less Mike Wilson, please.

[That Aud Smell]

2 minutes ago, Quint said:

But they are last in the NHL in hits.

Granato’s teams will never be big producers of hits. I’m good with that. This team is built to have the opponent  chasing them, not built to bruise the other team.

That said, they’ll need to find ways to grind too.

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Quint said:

But they are last in the NHL in hits. Poor in faceoffs too. The iffy situation in goal is also concerning. These problems should be addressed.

Hits are a poorly tracked stat with limited definition and they don't mean what you imply they mean. 

https://thewincolumn.ca/2021/01/30/breaking-down-the-inconsistencies-in-counting-hits-between-different-nhl-arenas/

Sabres home arena under counts hits

[LGR4GM]

Do they Sabres need to be more physical? Yes. 

Do I care what their hit count is? No. 

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Quint said:

But they are last in the NHL in hits. Poor in faceoffs too. The iffy situation in goal is also concerning. These problems should be addressed.

This was brought up in another thread a month or two ago (maybe more?), but I think it at least is a discussion point....

Patrice Bergeron.  There was an article right about the time he retired that talked about the way he was so good on defense from the forward position. One of the key points it brough up (and showed examples) was he would often turn away from a hit at the last minute, NOT finishing the check.  Many times when the opposing player is stationary or along the boards and moving, they are not going to be in a position to join the rush forward, so by 'finishing your check' you don't do much to slow them down/take them out of the play, but what you do is you take yourself out of the play by insuring you are that 1-2 seconds later getting back.  There was a radio show out of Canada that I personally listed to that talked about this.

Now I'm not saying the team shouldn't hit.  But when you see a guy have someone lined up along the boards and he turns away at the last minute, often times it might actually be a good thing if he gets back into the defensive zone more quickly.

Edited September 23, 2023 by mjd1001

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

This was brought up in another thread a month or two ago (maybe more?), but I think it at least is a discussion point....

Patrice Bergeron.  There was an article right about the time he retired that talked about the way she was so good on defense from the forward position. One of the key points it brough up (and showed examples) was he would often turn away from a hit at the last minute, NOT finishing the check.  Many times when the opposing player is stationary or along the boards and moving, they are not going to be in a position to join the rush forward, so by 'finishing your check' you don't do much to slow them down/take them out of the play, but what you do is you take yourself out of the play by insuring you are that 1-2 seconds later getting back.  There was a radio show out of Canada that I personally listed to that talked about this.

Now I'm not saying the team shouldn't hit.  But when you see a guy have someone lined up along the boards and he turns away at the last minute, often times it might actually be a good thing if he gets back into the defensive zone more quickly.

I think hits are most effective when defending a rush. You take the player or the puck and if you take the player, your D partner cleans up the puck. It's why I like Novikov so much, he might give you a little stick check but if you get past that, he'll just hit you. 

A lot of times in hockey now they talk about breaking through the hands or arms, not hitting someone. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

These heights and weights are not correct. I get you say "when drafted" but that's not accurate. It doesn't matter what they were when drafted but what they are and what they become. It really doesn't matter what their list h/w was drafted since a chunk of them were from covid years. Hell Neuchev's height was off by 3 inches. 

Here's what these guys are listed at by Buffalo right now, that's the important part. 

Benson 5’10” 170,

Savoie 5’10” 170,

Östlund 5’10 163, (don't have updated stats)

Kulich 6'1” 186, and

Rosen 6'0" 173. 

Neuchev is 5'11" 171lbs

You missed the point. The narrative of we are drafting small comes from what their stated sizes were when drafted.  In the embedded draft video KA says it himself.  He says, after they drafted Benson, that “they’ll say I drafted another small guy,” and then chuckles. (or something similar).  

This thread is not about the truth, but about the narratives surrounding this team.  This is a small team (False). This is a soft team (somewhat true but being changed).  We draft small skilled players (Somewhat true at forward, but not at all on defense).  Just because a narrative is based on some truth doesn’t mean the team will end up small or easy to play against. 

I did think Neuchev was smaller than the data I had.

Edited September 23, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Mustache of God]

10 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

They haven't updated today rosters for this season but here

https://www.eliteprospects.com/league/nhl/teams-physical-stats/2022-2023

So this shows me they're 19th and 21st in weight and then height, relatively not a big team. As others mentioned they don't play a physical game and Adams has even said he was tired of them getting pushed around and that's why he got Greenway. 

Being out muscled is also a symptom of having such a young team, they're not fully developed yet and I believe the grit will come. Look at Dahlin, for example, his first few years teams were clearly targeting him, in the past two seasons he's really development a mean streak and more players are going to follow suit.

[dudacek]

On 9/23/2023 at 5:41 AM, Mustache of God said:

So this shows me they're 19th and 21st in weight and then height, relatively not a big team..

The starting 18 listed in the OP average a shade under 205 pounds (204.6). The biggest team on that list averages 204.

So…relatively a big team?

And for @Sabres Fan in NS 

On 9/22/2023 at 3:43 PM, dudacek said:

This is the healthy starting 18 for the Buffalo Sabres, as listed by their camp roster. 

• 6’6 231 Greenway
• 6’4 231 Samuelsson
• 6’4 225 Johnson
• 6’6 220 Thompson
• 6’4 219 Tuch
• 6’6 218 Power
• 6’0 218 Okposo
• 6’3 202 Dahlin
• 6’2 200 Girgensons
• 6’0 200 Jokiharju
• 5’11 197 Skinner
• 6’3 195 Cozens
• 6’1 195 Mittelstadt
• 5’11 190 Clifton
• 6’0 189 Peterka
• 6’0 187 Krebs
• 6’1 185 Quinn
• 5’11 181 Olofsson

 

When did you stop trusting me man?

This one hurts.

Edited September 24, 2023 by dudacek