Some troubling comments attributed to Terry Pegula (and denied by Pegula) and Jerry Jones from SI Writer Jim Trotter’s Lawsuit against the NFL

[shrader]

8 hours ago, GrassValleyGreg said:

In what world is a white-asian mixed race kid called brown (note: my child is half Japanese/half white)? In what world does being married to a Korean-American disqualify you from being racist against a completely different race?

It's a stupid comment that I'm happy has exposed the similar minded. 

My filipino neighbor regularly refers to her half white half asian son as brown.

 

5 minutes ago, Mango said:

The statement around Pegula is that it was reported to the league and the league didn’t do their due diligence and instead did not extend the employees (Trotter) despite previous promises otherwise.

If it was just a conversation between two people, how long would due diligence really take?

-Did you say this?  No, ok.
-Did he say this?  Maybe, ok.

Edited September 13, 2023 by shrader

[nfreeman]

3 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

How is the last item a fact?

Jeez.  

I think as stated it is a fact, but if you don’t, I’ll re-submit it thusly:  the complaint doesn’t mention a recording of either conversation, and I am not aware of any reporting stating that a recording exists.

[nfreeman]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Clarification is needed. These were employees of the NFL. NFL Media. They were not media members in the traditional sense. Brian Duff for example is not a media member. I think you want to give the impression that someone among 40 "journalists" would have reported it, and the fact they didn't is evidence the quote was not mentioned. But they were not journalists. It's hardly shocking that NFL employees wouldn't touch that quote.

You'd think that among the 40 people said to have heard what Trotter alleges, at least a few would come out and say, "That never happened."

Now this is a fair clarification.

However, it’s also fair to point out that, like Trotter, plenty of these guys go back and forth between independent media gigs and working “in house.”   It’s highly likely that quite a few of the 40 NFL media members who were allegedly present on the zoom call in September 2020 have since gone independent.  Some of those people would presumably have spilled the beans about TP’s alleged statement.

Of course, we don’t know who was at the meeting, and those people can’t be asked about it, since they weren’t identified in the complaint.  

[LGR4GM]

11 hours ago, GoPre said:

Make it 6 

Don’t over think.  He was making a point.  

It was a bad point, in fact it is pretty cringy. 

The fact 6 ppl think it isn't makes me wonder if maybe my time here has run out. 

52 minutes ago, shrader said:

My filipino neighbor regularly refers to her half white half asian son as brown.

And? This means your Filipino neighbor is suddenly incapable of thinking Black Americans should and I quote "go back to Africa"? 

[LGR4GM]

The issue isn't if Terry Pegula thinks he has brown kids, it is that the suggestion by 11 is that Pegula can't be racist because he has children with a mother of Korean birth. What about having a wife from Asia means that Pegula is suddenly enlightened about Black struggles in the United States? I have an acquaintance who's wife is of Mexican heritage and he is one of the worst ppl I know when it comes to the border and the racial struggles going on in America. Suggesting that just because someone has a wife, kid, partner of a different race therefore they obviously wouldn't say or do something racist themselves is f##king stupid. 

And with that, I am going to let this thread be. I said my piece. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by LGR4GM
spelling

[Cascade Youth]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

The statement around Pegula is that it was reported to the league and the league didn’t do their due diligence and instead did not extend the employees (Trotter) despite previous promises otherwise.
 

There is no defamation suit to be had because Trotter will say, “I don’t know if he said it. Neither does the league because they swept my official complaint under the rug rather than doing their due diligence. And when I tried to follow up I was blown off and then lost the contract I was promised”. 

I addressed this earlier.  The public figure standard is irrelevant because the speech - an allegation contained in a lawsuit pleading - is immune from liability under defamation law.

[Marvin]

15 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The issue isn't if Terry Pegula thinks he has brown kids, it is that the suggestion by 11 is that Pegula can't be racist because he has children with a mother of Korean birth. What about having a wife from Asia means that Pegula is suddenly enlightened about Black struggles in the United States? I have an acquaintance who's wife is of Mexican heritage and he is one of the worst ppl I know when it comes to the border and the racial struggles going on in America. Suggesting that just because someone has a wife, kid, partner of a different race therefore they obviously wouldn't say or do something racist themselves is f##king stupid. 

And with that, I am going to let this thread be. I said my piece. 

Furthering your point: the biggest racist I have ever known was my Chinese grandmother.  She called me a half-breed to my face in front of my Chinese relatives.  She looked down at every other nationality, skin colour, etc., but held a specific contempt for Caucasians.  She knew the struggles of the capitalist Chinese forwards and backwards, but she was somewhere between oblivious to aggressively ignorant about any other group.  And she thought that she treated people equally, but it was relative to the elitist hierarchy in her mind.

[Pimlach]

10 hours ago, klos1963 said:

I don't put anything past anyone these days.  I have no expectations that anyone isn't a jerk behind the scenes.

 

10 hours ago, klos1963 said:

Kim was pretty hot , though.

 

You proved yourself to be right, nice job.   

[PromoTheRobot]

16 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

We all better hope this is not true, because if it is, his ability to stay on as owner of the Bills AND the Sabres may be in jeopardy.  

I think you might be overstating things a bit. Do you actually believe the NFL is going to force Jerry Jones out too? Terry is one of his clients. There's a photo of JJ at a desegregation protest in Arkansas when he was young. If that didn't sink him, this won't either 

[nucci]

20 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

 

 

You proved yourself to be right, nice job.   

That may have been his point

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

Anyone blindly defending TP at this point has exposed their true character, and it’s not good.  Same for anyone assuming everything Trotter said is true.  Let’s see what evidence and statements come out of this case. 
 

I appreciate the legal discussion earlier in the thread, and those calling out the ignorance (pretend I said silliness if the truth cuts too deep) of saying someone married to a minority or cannot be racists towards another culture or race. 

[MattPie]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Now this is a fair clarification.

However, it’s also fair to point out that, like Trotter, plenty of these guys go back and forth between independent media gigs and working “in house.”   It’s highly likely that quite a few of the 40 NFL media members who were allegedly present on the zoom call in September 2020 have since gone independent.  Some of those people would presumably have spilled the beans about TP’s alleged statement.

Of course, we don’t know who was at the meeting, and those people can’t be asked about it, since they weren’t identified in the complaint.  

I don't think the bold is fair if you're implying "well, no one else has reported it so it's not true". As Trotter is finding out, you don't embarrass the league and expect to continue working with it. Entirely likely anyone who reported something like this would quickly find closed doors and be looking for a new career outside football and probably sports media.

26 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Furthering your point: the biggest racist I have ever known was my Chinese grandmother.  She called me a half-breed to my face in front of my Chinese relatives.  She looked down at every other nationality, skin colour, etc., but held a specific contempt for Caucasians.  She knew the struggles of the capitalist Chinese forwards and backwards, but she was somewhere between oblivious to aggressively ignorant about any other group.  And she thought that she treated people equally, but it was relative to the elitist hierarchy in her mind.

Careful, you're wandering close to "it's okay, they do it too". 🙂 (to be clear, I absolutely don't think you're saying that)

[PASabreFan]

21 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I think you might be overstating things a bit. Do you actually believe the NFL is going to force Jerry Jones out too? Terry is one of his clients. There's a photo of JJ at a desegregation protest in Arkansas when he was young. If that didn't sink him, this won't either 

Good point. If true, then what?

[...]

15 hours ago, JohnC said:

Read @Cascade Youth comments on this issue. He addresses the law and not the emotional reaction to this issue. 

So condescending. The comment I'm responding to has little to do with the legal machinations and everything to do with PR. If Pegula is in a position to take this to court he should not let it slide no matter how long it takes to play out.

We all understand how damaging a situation like this can be; witness this very thread where before any facts, evidence, or proper context have been established, people are not only saying this is bad for Pegula, and he shoudn't own the team, but already posters are judging other posters with the "showing your true colors" accusation.

The only effective counter to this situation from a PR perspective, again, assuming Pegula has been done dirty, is to take a suit all the way. Letting it slide is effectively as bad as the accusation itself.

[nfreeman]

18 minutes ago, MattPie said:

I don't think the bold is fair if you're implying "well, no one else has reported it so it's not true". As Trotter is finding out, you don't embarrass the league and expect to continue working with it. Entirely likely anyone who reported something like this would quickly find closed doors and be looking for a new career outside football and probably sports media.

 

I'm not saying it's proof of falsehood, but it's an indicator IMHO.  It just seems highly likely that something that explosive would've gotten out during the past 3 full years.

As for people being afraid of crossing the NFL -- I'm sure that's true for some, but there are plenty of NFL critics in sports media.  Bill Simmons called Roger Goodell a liar on his podcast and has had maybe the best and most successful career of all time in sports media (although to be fair, he did get suspended by ESPN for doing so).  And there have been about a million articles/videos by sports media people criticizing the NFL for concussions, Colin Kaepernick, etc.

[Night Train]

22 minutes ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

Anyone blindly defending TP at this point has exposed their true character, and it’s not good.  Same for anyone assuming everything Trotter said is true.  Let’s see what evidence and statements come out of this case. 
 

I appreciate the legal discussion earlier in the thread, and those calling out the ignorance (pretend I said silliness if the truth cuts too deep) of saying someone married to a minority or cannot be racists towards another culture or race. 

 Precisely.

 No one is defending him (I hope) or shouldn't be convicting him via a report. Just let it play out.  It does seem strange the instances being referenced is a few years old and now comes to light. Reasoning can only be blind speculation.  

[shrader]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Of course, we don’t know who was at the meeting, and those people can’t be asked about it, since they weren’t identified in the complaint.  

Is that actually how it works?  Trotter's group can't go and dig up that person now?  Why even include it then?

Can I end another sentence with a question mark?

[Pimlach]

3 minutes ago, nucci said:

That may have been his point

Not when you read his two responses.  First he is virtue signaling that you cannot assume that someone is (or is not) being a jerk behind the scenes.  Next he posts a cloddish comment about Kim.   But he did it in a way that he perceives as humorous and harmless, so that makes it ok?  His comment on Kim does not offend me, I get his attempt at humor, but would her close friends and family feel the same way? 

It points out how easily our words can get us in trouble in the 2020's.  

We don't know what Pegula said, how he said it, or even if he said anything.   We don't know what Trotter is about as a professional working for NFL media, we don't know his relationships, or how his performance on the job is perceived.   But here we go, taking sides on all the "what if's" scenarios. 

 

[PASabreFan]

30 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I'm not saying it's proof of falsehood, but it's an indicator IMHO.  It just seems highly likely that something that explosive would've gotten out during the past 3 full years.

As for people being afraid of crossing the NFL -- I'm sure that's true for some, but there are plenty of NFL critics in sports media.  Bill Simmons called Roger Goodell a liar on his podcast and has had maybe the best and most successful career of all time in sports media (although to be fair, he did get suspended by ESPN for doing so).  And there have been about a million articles/videos by sports media people criticizing the NFL for concussions, Colin Kaepernick, etc.

I'm confused. You keep lumping the corporate communications arm of the NFL (NFL Media) in with the professional media for lack of a better word. It's entirely plausible that 40 people who work for the NFL would never have delved into the quote.

The confusion... are you suggesting the second reporter never relayed the quote during the Zoom meeting? Trotter made the whole thing up? Did he also make up the part about his boss saying the issue was being dealt with in HR New York? Would it ever get to HR without someone confirming the second reporter's statement? Maybe by asking two or three or 19 of those in the meeting if it was said?

[RochesterExpat]

1 hour ago, Cascade Youth said:

I addressed this earlier.  The public figure standard is irrelevant because the speech - an allegation contained in a lawsuit pleading - is immune from liability under defamation law.

I hadn't read the complaint yet and, based on reading the comments here, I was led to believe TP was taking flak as a third party unconnected to the broader complaint. In that situation, judicial privilege would not apply. 
 

Quote

A communication made by an attorney in a judicial proceeding is absolutely privileged if it is pertinent and relevant to the issues, although it may be false and malicious: Pitts v. King, 141 Or. 23 ( 15 P.2d 379, 472); 36 C.J. 1252. He cannot, however, in a judicial proceeding, utter defamatory matter wholly foreign to the issues and be protected under the shield of qualified privilege. To recover, therefore, against the defendant Vandenberg it was incumbent upon plaintiff to establish that the alleged defamatory matter spoken of and concerning her was irrelevant and impertinent to the issues in the murder case and that it was uttered with express or actual malice: Cooper v. Phipps, 24 Or. 357 ( 33 P. 985).

Irwin v. Ashurst (1938)

Since reading the complaint, judicial privilege applies and there is no basis for a defamation suit. So you are correct. Sorry for the confusing bit. In my defense, I did add this disclaimer at the time:
 

4 hours ago, RochesterExpat said:

The majority of statements made in court do have a shield from defamation suits—as someone pointed out—but that does not extend to a plaintiff’s statements about a third party in a complaint (complaint didn’t load for me but based on what’s posted it seems like TP is a third party).

 

[That Aud Smell]

22 hours ago, Eleven said:

Yeah, the guy who married a woman of a different race and who has several brown kids is going to say something like that.  Eyeroll thingy.

". . . some of my best friends are black."

Dude. This one is rough.

5 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

@That Aud Smell put the coffee on. I'm interested in your opinion of Terry's statement.

I've been mostly offline since late last week. I'm just hearing of this. I'll have a look now.

[PASabreFan]

Goodell suggests league will investigate?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/roger-goodell-addresses-jim-trotters-154713789.html&ved=2ahUKEwis0MLj_6eBAxVzD1kFHWNHCw0QyM8BKAB6BAgJEAI&usg=AOvVaw1UA7ZnBb6rdKVJvIGFxH1V

[Mango]

2 hours ago, Cascade Youth said:

I addressed this earlier.  The public figure standard is irrelevant because the speech - an allegation contained in a lawsuit pleading - is immune from liability under defamation law.

I don’t think this has anything to do with public figure standard. 
 

Not a lawyer. (Unsure if you are either) But it seems like if I were to equate this to normal work it would be me hearing a terrible quote from an executive at work. My colleague says he heard something very similar from another executive. I file an official complaint. And instead of my employer looking into it, they ignore it and lose my job. Which seems to be the essence in this case.

I would think I have every right to quote my initial complaint to my employer in a court. 
 

EDIT: I think you misread your post and we are saying similar things. There is no possible deflation suit as this is protected language. If that’s what you’re saying then sorry for being a total idiot. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Mango

[Eleven]

4 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Goodell suggests league will investigate?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/roger-goodell-addresses-jim-trotters-154713789.html&ved=2ahUKEwis0MLj_6eBAxVzD1kFHWNHCw0QyM8BKAB6BAgJEAI&usg=AOvVaw1UA7ZnBb6rdKVJvIGFxH1V

Actually, it seems that the league already has.  As it should have.

[Weave]

I’ll say this, if the reports prove credible, and likely to have occurred, I will find it mighty difficult to support a Pegula venture.  My fandom has been sorely tested over the last decade.  A racist statement by the owner would be a very heavy piece of straw indeed.