Thank you Victor Olofsson

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Captain Caveman said:

Reminds me of when we were so happy to get rid of Derek Roy for... Steve Ott

Olofsson has a history of up and down play, but you need to have a plan to replace that many goals. 

Roy for Ott didn't fail because Roy's production wasn't replaced.  That was.  (At least the end of his Buffalo tenure Roy; Roy himself didn't replace earlier Roy.)  Hodgson replaced Roy's scoring.  But nobody stepped up and replaced Hodgson's 2C scoring.  Not Ennis, not Leino, not Grigorenko, none of them.  In hindsight, it was foolish to expect that crew to do so.  And Hodgson only replaced Roy's production for a very brief time as his genetic disorder kicked in about a year after Roy left.

On paper the transaction, should have worked.  Roy and (the concept of) Kassian for Hodgson and Ott was effectively what was swapped out.  But they forgot they'd already swapped out Connolly for Hodgson.  And Hodgson hadn't fully replaced Connolly.  They needed 1 more move to make that work.  That or Hodgson staying healthy.  At minimum they needed 1 of those 2 to happen and ideally both.

And, Olofsson down the stretch was only playing about 2 of 7 games.  Doubt without some serious reshuffling that he'll have any chance of getting regular action in Buffalo should he stay a Sabres.  How tough will it be for them to replace 20 games worth of VO's scoring just with youth being 1 year better than they were this season?

[dudacek]

I also think it’s already effectively Olofsson for Greenway in terms of who fills the 3W slot.

Its an acknowledgement that the team’s overall identity needed more balance, and a statement that they think we’ll be better off getting 30 points and +12 from Greenway than 50 points and -12 from VO.

Now we just wait and see if they’re right.

[DarthEbriate]

26 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I also think it’s already effectively Olofsson for Greenway in terms of who fills the 3W slot.

Its an acknowledgement that the team’s overall identity needed more balance, and a statement that they think we’ll be better off getting 30 points and +12 from Greenway than 50 points and -12 from VO.

Now we just wait and see if they’re right.

Once Greenway came back from a few games off and rested his injury (and the team got Dahlin, Tuch, and TNT back + brought this kid named Levi into the lineup), Greenway had 3 goals in his final 7 games and was +3. I don't expect the 35-goal pace for the season, but his all-around game and ability to play PK will negate VO's scoring. And I'm still a huge fan of VO and what he has been able to do as a 7th round undersized sniper without great speed, elusiveness, etc. I'm very happy Quinn only took 1 season to show his promise to move VO out of the top 6, and that Kulich may be able to be VO+1st round talent and 200' game around the latter part of next season (though I think he should play at least 60 games in ROC next season and build strength).

[Thorny]

My current guess for how it unfolds, notably sans Olofsson:

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch 

Peterka - Cozens - Quinn

Mittelstadt - Krebs - Greenway

Girgensons - Jost/FA/Trade - FA/Trade

New Rookie/Rousek

Samuelsson - Dahlin

Power - Jokiharju

Stillman - Lyubushkin/FA/Trade

FA/Trade

Levi

UPL

- - - 

I likely see 1, maybe 2 depth, role-player adds to the bottom of the F unit. Probably a RW replacement for KO. I don’t see the Rookie I listed as the actual 13th man: if that listed rookie option makes the team after a 9-ish game tryout, we probably see at most 1 new outside depth F addition and possibly as few as 0. 

As to the D, I think we see one, 6/7 type add, for sure, and certainly not zero, but very likely not more than 1.

Goaltending, the more I’ve thought about it probably gets run back (from the end of the season). 

It’ll be a quiet offseason. We likely make all of our picks, and add a couple with VO (look for KA to add a 3rd for this year to further replace our own (though we do have the Kings 3rd, currently) and perhaps a 5th to replace next season’s), and the addition of another Jost and another Lyubushkin level player to their respective positions. I think KA would be open to additions slightly better than the mentioned 4th liner and 6th/7th d-man, but that no betrayal of his valuation will take place: he won’t overpay slightly to get a solidly 3rd line, middle pair D player. If we can get that instead, great, but he’ll sooner add the 2 depth pieces with metrics to the tune of them presumably thinking they can unlock that “one line UP” level, with those players, internally/through system fit. 

[Dr. Who]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

My current guess for how it unfolds, notably sans Olofsson:

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch 

Peterka - Cozens - Quinn

Mittelstadt - Krebs - Greenway

Girgensons - Jost/FA/Trade - FA/Trade

New Rookie/Rousek

Samuelsson - Dahlin

Power - Jokiharju

Stillman - Lyubushkin/FA/Trade

FA/Trade

Levi

UPL

- - - 

I likely see 1, maybe 2 depth, role-player adds to the bottom of the F unit. Probably a RW replacement for KO. I don’t see the Rookie I listed as the actual 13th man: if that listed rookie option makes the team after a 9-ish game tryout, we probably see at most 1 new outside depth F addition and possibly as few as 0. 

As to the D, I think we see one, 6/7 type add, for sure, and certainly not zero, but very likely not more than 1.

Goaltending, the more I’ve thought about it probably gets run back (from the end of the season). 

It’ll be a quiet offseason. We likely make all of our picks, and add a couple with VO (look for KA to add a 3rd for this year to further replace our own (though we do have the Kings 3rd, currently) and perhaps a 5th to replace next season’s), and the addition of another Jost and another Lyubushkin level player to their respective positions. I think KA would be open to additions slightly better than the mentioned 4th liner and 6th/7th d-man, but that no betrayal of his valuation will take place: he won’t overpay slightly to get a solidly 3rd line, middle pair D player. If we can get that instead, great, but he’ll sooner add the 2 depth pieces with metrics to the tune of them presumably thinking they can unlock that “one line UP” level, with those players, internally/through system fit. 

That's in line with another fella here who prognosticates the same kind of approach. Why wouldn't you bring in a FA like Ryan Graves, especially when one knows Mule plays a game that accrues injuries and the difference in record when he is missing? It doesn't take much to make this team much harder to play against, but it's more than this scenario. I think Savoie is very likely to make the team, and probably Rousek as well.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

That's in line with another fella here who prognosticates the same kind of approach. Why wouldn't you bring in a FA like Ryan Graves, especially when one knows Mule plays a game that accrues injuries and the difference in record when he is missing? It doesn't take much to make this team much harder to play against, but it's more than this scenario. I think Savoie is very likely to make the team, and probably Rousek as well.

“COMRIE WILL BE THE OTHER GOALIE!“

^that guy?

ya, I ‘sppose he’s just worn me down. 

[dudacek]

34 minutes ago, Thorny said:

My current guess for how it unfolds, notably sans Olofsson:

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch 

Peterka - Cozens - Quinn

Mittelstadt - Krebs - Greenway

Girgensons - Jost/FA/Trade - FA/Trade

New Rookie/Rousek

Samuelsson - Dahlin

Power - Jokiharju

Stillman - Lyubushkin/FA/Trade

FA/Trade

Levi

UPL

- - - 

I likely see 1, maybe 2 depth, role-player adds to the bottom of the F unit. Probably a RW replacement for KO. I don’t see the Rookie I listed as the actual 13th man: if that listed rookie option makes the team after a 9-ish game tryout, we probably see at most 1 new outside depth F addition and possibly as few as 0. 

As to the D, I think we see one, 6/7 type add, for sure, and certainly not zero, but very likely not more than 1.

Goaltending, the more I’ve thought about it probably gets run back (from the end of the season). 

It’ll be a quiet offseason. We likely make all of our picks, and add a couple with VO (look for KA to add a 3rd for this year to further replace our own (though we do have the Kings 3rd, currently) and perhaps a 5th to replace next season’s), and the addition of another Jost and another Lyubushkin level player to their respective positions. I think KA would be open to additions slightly better than the mentioned 4th liner and 6th/7th d-man, but that no betrayal of his valuation will take place: he won’t overpay slightly to get a solidly 3rd line, middle pair D player. If we can get that instead, great, but he’ll sooner add the 2 depth pieces with metrics to the tune of them presumably thinking they can unlock that “one line UP” level, with those players, internally/through system fit. 

I’ll be surprised and disappointed if they don’t bring in a guy who will at least challenge Jokiharju for the 4th D spot.

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I’ll be surprised and disappointed if they don’t bring in a guy who will at least challenge Jokiharju for the 4th D spot.

I think that might be, in their minds, the 6th/7th d-man I was referring to. Via the “this guy is a 6 but, from what we’ve seen w/his metrics, he can be a 4 for us” mindset. I think even plenty of posters had Lyubushkin listed as D4 at times this year, though I’m not sure if that was more along the lines of “it needed to be someone”. 

Basicallly, Adams was in on Chychrun, right? But what we brought in, was Stillman. I’m not sure how surprised I’d be if something like that unfolds, again. We’ve already seen the precedent. And I’m not sure how much of that process I can wish away to “well, that was just his parameters at the deadline” when the working assumption is the only reason we were “in” on deadline moves was under the scenario of them not being merely deadline deals, at all 

[Thorny]

Adams wanted Ullmark. He wanted Chychrun. He may have even known we “needed” them. But I haven’t seen him use “ends justify the means” logic yet 

[dudacek]

38 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I think that might be, in their minds, the 6th/7th d-man I was referring to. Via the “this guy is a 6 but, from what we’ve seen w/his metrics, he can be a 4 for us” mindset. I think even plenty of posters had Lyubushkin listed as D4 at times this year, though I’m not sure if that was more along the lines of “it needed to be someone”. 

Basicallly, Adams was in on Chychrun, right? But what we brought in, was Stillman. I’m not sure how surprised I’d be if something like that unfolds, again. We’ve already seen the precedent. And I’m not sure how much of that process I can wish away to “well, that was just his parameters at the deadline” when the working assumption is the only reason we were “in” on deadline moves was under the scenario of them not being merely deadline deals, at all 

To me, Stillman was acknowledgement that Bryson was not getting it done, even as a six.

I also watched Granato play anyone outside his top 4 as little as possible, indirectly blame his depth defencemen for the struggles of some of his forwards (specifically Mitts and VO or whoever was on the 3rd line), and then acknowledge at his year-ender that none of his depth guys stepped up.

I know you’re saying Adams may not have it in him to pay the price to address a need.

I also know you aren’t that high on Greenway, but I think in that case, he did (overpay for a need), and shows he will.

Edited April 22, 2023 by dudacek

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

To me, Stillman was acknowledgement that Bryson was not getting it done, even as a six.

I also watched Granato play anyone outside his top 4 as little as possible, indirectly blame his depth defencemen for the struggles of some of his forwards (specifically Mitts and VO or whoever was on the 3rd line), and then acknowledge at his year-ender that none of his depth guys stepped up.

I know you’re saying Adams may not have it in him to pay the price to address a need.

I also know you aren’t that high on Greenway, but I think in that case, he did (overpay for a need), and shows he will.

You are probably right, then. There’s no way I was watching with the eye for detail you would have been, through the final stretch of the season 

[inkman]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

I also think it’s already effectively Olofsson for Greenway in terms of who fills the 3W slot.

Its an acknowledgement that the team’s overall identity needed more balance, and a statement that they think we’ll be better off getting 30 points and +12 from Greenway than 50 points and -12 from VO.

Now we just wait and see if they’re right.

[PASabreFan]

The johnson watch begins...

[Night Train]

VO's game is perfect for the finesse European game with the wider rink.  He's too limited here in the NHl. PP only and his -62 career stat. A liability.  How much can they actually get for him ? 

[LGR4GM]

16 hours ago, Captain Caveman said:

Reminds me of when we were so happy to get rid of Derek Roy for... Steve Ott

Olofsson has a history of up and down play, but you need to have a plan to replace that many goals. 

I'll answer. Greenway gets 12 in olofsson's 3rd line spot. Quinn gets 7 more, jjp gets 7 more. Done. I don't think any of this is even difficult. 19 and 21 total goals for jjp and Quinn seems easily in reach. 

Olofsson is replaceable, that's where Buffalo is at in the build.

[mjd1001]

19 hours ago, Captain Caveman said:

Reminds me of when we were so happy to get rid of Derek Roy for... Steve Ott

Olofsson has a history of up and down play, but you need to have a plan to replace that many goals. 

I agree with you.  

I was a kid in the 1980's and there were no message boards back then, but the number of people who want to run a "one dimensional" goal scorer who brings nothing to the team other than Power play goals.....reminds me quite a bit of how people talked about Dave Andreychuck when he was here.  I'm not saying VO is as good as Andreychuck, but the similarities are there in how people talk about him.

I'm somewhat indifferent on him being here or not being here, but you don't make this team better by replacing him with the 'rookie of choice' of the forum.

He is a streaky scorer, even more so than most, and he isn't a physical player or a Defensive specialist. But, his goals matter.  Every goal he scored wasn't meaning at the end of a game or an empty netter with 3 seconds left.  And as much as he doesn't backcheck, he isn't DIRECTLY responsible for goals against often by being a turnover machine in his own end.

So, can he be replaced? Sure. If he is gone and I upset? No, but I think he matters more to this team than people think. His plus-minus was bad, but scoring goals is a very hard thing to do for 75%+ of the players in the league, and he is pretty good at that.

Edited April 22, 2023 by mjd1001

[Doohickie]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I was a kid in the 1980's and there were no message boards back then

[Carmel Corn]

7 hours ago, Night Train said:

VO's game is perfect for the finesse European game with the wider rink.  He's too limited here in the NHl. PP only and his -62 career stat. A liability.  How much can they actually get for him ? 

His +/- history suggests to me that we don't have to worry about replacing ALL of his goal production.  His absence may actually provide some addition by subtraction with respect to overall goal differential.  Also, if his spot is replaced by somebody who can bring a different style of play, meaning winning more puck battles to improve possession time....thereby more scoring opportunities and goals.

[Taro T]

7 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I agree with you.  

I was a kid in the 1980's and there were no message boards back then, but the number of people who want to run a "one dimensional" goal scorer who brings nothing to the team other than Power play goals.....reminds me quite a bit of how people talked about Dave Andreychuck when he was here.  I'm not saying VO is as good as Andreychuck, but the similarities are there in how people talk about him.

I'm somewhat indifferent on him being here or not being here, but you don't make this team better by replacing him with the 'rookie of choice' of the forum.

He is a streaky scorer, even more so than most, and he isn't a physical player or a Defensive specialist. But, his goals matter.  Every goal he scored wasn't meaning at the end of a game or an empty netter with 3 seconds left.  And as much as he doesn't backcheck, he isn't DIRECTLY responsible for goals against often by being a turnover machine in his own end.

So, can he be replaced? Sure. If he is gone and I upset? No, but I think he matters more to this team than people think. His plus-minus was bad, but scoring goals is a very hard thing to do for 75%+ of the players in the league, and he is pretty good at that.

Which is why he should (especially if sent out in a package w/ a 1st) be able to return something the Sabres don't already have in spades.

[Doohickie]

 

To me he sounds like a sixth rounder who made the NHL against all odds and feels the dream slipping away.  I kind of feel bad for him.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

 

To me he sounds like a sixth rounder who made the NHL against all odds and feels the dream slipping away.  I kind of feel bad for him.

I caught the same vibe.  He almost sounded ashamed.  Or embarrassed.

[French Collection]

26 minutes ago, Weave said:

I caught the same vibe.  He almost sounded ashamed.  Or embarrassed.

A 28 goal scorer in his prime getting scratched has to be embarrassing.

It wasn’t a very positive exit interview. 

One that I was looking for was Bryson. I guess the reporters didn’t care about him and he probably didn’t want to talk. I was just curious about his thoughts.

[Doohickie]

Yeah, this is the downside of finally filling the pipeline- there will be "okay" players that fit in when the Sabres were a weaker team that will be casualties.  I really hope they trade him to a team that can use his talents.

Ollie is perhaps the only bright spot of the Krueger era.

[matter2003]

On 4/14/2023 at 9:57 PM, Misanthrope said:

If he is on the roster by the opening game I will change my GM grade from an A to a C.  That is all

Your grade doesn't mean anything.

[Pimlach]

I think VO is going to end up ok. There will be teams that need help on the PP and more firepower overall.  The guy can finish. 

Seems like a good guy to me.  Sabres have so much high end talent and they need skills that VO does not bring.  

I would not be surprised to see him be an asset somewhere else.  

Edited April 25, 2023 by Pimlach