Devon Levi Signed to 3 year deal

[Eleven]

2 hours ago, Zamboni said:

Ok I call that practicing with the team. 

That's ok.  ICE doesn't.  He watched practice today and skated after.  (Buffalo News.)

Edited March 23, 2023 by Eleven

[Pimlach]

I really worry about rushing him.  

[K-9]

Do we have any work visa specialists in the house? I ask because my cursory research on the subject indicates a processing time for the P-1A visa for athletes of 3-6 months, but if you want to pay a premium that can be shortened to 15 days. If that’s the case, then it’s no surprise that Levi hasn’t been issued the visa yet.

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

You have no desire to cast aspersions, but went ahead and did so anyway. 😂

Does it occur to anyone concerned about the delay that it may not matter at all to the Sabres or Levi? That, since it was gonna be well over a week since he played by the time the immigration paperwork was processed, that they’d prefer some practices under his belt before playing him in the meantime? 

This is as much of a non issue as can be. 

No need to worry anymore.

 

[pi2000]

21 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

No need to worry anymore.

 

[shrader]

I guess he was able to completely divest himself from the international crime syndicate. 

[HumanSlinky39]

8 minutes ago, shrader said:

I guess he was able to completely divest himself from the international crime syndicate. 

Thank God.

[HumanSlinky39]

18 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I really worry about rushing him.  

Yeah, especially with the pylons that would be in front of him right now.

[In The Buff]

besides from the visa, i know they were waiting on some of his equipment to arrive.

His official team gear, and then Levi will need time to break in the new pads & chest gear before playing in it.

Probably 2-3 days alone just to do that i would think?

Wondering when is the soonest we might expect to see him

Edited March 24, 2023 by In The Buff

[Thorny]

20 hours ago, JohnC said:

Levi is practicing and working out. It may not be fully with the team but it is enough to start the process of getting acclimated to NHL play. I suspect that he will be able to start in net for some games when the team falls out of the playoff race. I have said this before, so I apologize for the redundancy, our GM's acquisition of Levi from the Reinhart deal might turn out to be one of his most consequential deals. It took some time for the organization to realize the benefits from the ROR trade that got us Tage. In hindsight, it ended up being a major deal in our favor. I see the same results happening with the acquisition of Levi. The next obvious question is how long is it going to take before Levi becomes our primary goalie? 

We don’t need hindsight to see what talents we have on the team now, by way of that ROR trade. Hindsight doesn’t serve the argument, because in hindsight the deal still looks terrible: the deal failed under the prism of what it was attempting to accomplish *at the time*.

It was a big reason that rebuild crashed and Botterill’s time came to an end. The following GM picking up the pieces doesn’t make it a good trade, it just makes Adams a good GM. This also isn’t the same as saying I’d “reverse the trade”. I honestly don’t know- it’s impossible to see how the past changes if we didn’t maroon our offence beyond Eichel. But Thompson is critical for us now. 

In the end, a trade can be bad, yet over the ripples of time eventually produce a talent better than given up - both things can in fact be true 

If Adams dealt Cozens for a 3rd round pick, and the pick became Brayden Point, is it a good trade? We know the answer is no.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Thorny

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

We don’t need hindsight to see what talents we have on the team now, by way of that ROR trade. Hindsight doesn’t serve the argument, because in hindsight the deal still looks terrible: the deal failed under the prism of what it was attempting to accomplish *at the time*.

It was a big reason that rebuild crashed and Botterill’s time came to an end. The following GM picking up the pieces doesn’t make it a good trade, it just makes Adams a good GM. This also isn’t the same as saying I’d “reverse the trade”. I honestly don’t know- it’s impossible to see how the past changes if we didn’t maroon our offence beyond Eichel. But Thompson is critical for us now. 

In the end, a trade can be bad, yet over the ripples of time eventually produce a talent better than given up - both things can in fact be true 

If Adams dealt Cozens for a 3rd round pick, and the pick became Brayden Point, is it a good trade? We know the answer is no.

With respect to the highlighted segment, I respectfully and strenuously disagree with your assessment. A superficial analysis clearly indicates that in hindsight the ROR trade that resulted in the acquisition of Tage has turned out to be an exceptional deal for the Sabres. And if Ryan Johnson signs and becomes a lower pairing defenseman for us in the near future, the deal becomes even better. This is not a close call judgment as it is overwhelmingly apparent. 

[Thorny]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

With respect to the highlighted segment, I respectfully and strenuously disagree with your assessment. A superficial analysis clearly indicates that in hindsight the ROR trade that resulted in the acquisition of Tage has turned out to be an exceptional deal for the Sabres. And if Ryan Johnson signs and becomes a lower pairing defenseman for us in the near future, the deal becomes even better. This is not a close call judgment as it is overwhelmingly apparent. 

It’s only exceptional if you don’t consider the more immediate results, and you have not come close to, or as far as I can tell even attempted to formulate an argument for why how the deal affected the team during the first 3 years after the trade was made shouldn’t matter 

If the key principles of your argument could literally apply, word for word, for a defence of a Cozens for 3rd round pick argument, where in 3 years from now that pick becomes another Brayden Point, you have a faulty argument

The only thing overwhelmingly apparent is that your argument is critically faulty, John! I’m sorry to say 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Thorny

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

With respect to the highlighted segment, I respectfully and strenuously disagree with your assessment. A superficial analysis clearly indicates that in hindsight the ROR trade that resulted in the acquisition of Tage has turned out to be an exceptional deal for the Sabres. And if Ryan Johnson signs and becomes a lower pairing defenseman for us in the near future, the deal becomes even better. This is not a close call judgment as it is overwhelmingly apparent. 

With all due respect, by that logic, a trade of Dahlin for another team's 1st and 2nd round draft picks for 6 consecutive years starting 10 years from now will be an overwhelming win for the Sabres.  Because with a competent GM, about 4 years into that run the Sabres should start having an overwhelming amount of talent coming on board and Dahlin will be in his early 30's and coming back down to the pack.

The time value of when things are useful CAN'T be neglected in an evaluation of a trade.  How much good will and money was lost to the team by fans not showing up & was hemorrhaged over the 3 seasons where the Sabres were trash and the closest thing to a valuable on-ice asset was the Tage Thompson that tore up his shoulder taking a routine check into the boards?  

This wasn't even a Niewendyk for Iginla trade where it was obvious to all that Joe was a star in his prime and Jerome was going to be a star and both would fit the timeline of the team they were getting traded to better than they fit with their old team's timeline.  There was no indication that Thompson was going to grow from a baby giraffe into a serious badass unicorn.  If there was, he wouldn't have lasted to the end of the 1st in the year he was drafted and he would've been the guy that St. Louis absolutely refused to part with.    

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It’s only exceptional if you don’t consider the more immediate results, and you have not come close to, or as far as I can tell even attempted to formulate an argument for why how the deal affected the team during the first 3 years after the trade was made shouldn’t matter 

If the key principles of your argument could literally apply, word for word, for a defence of a Cozens for 3rd round pick argument, where in 3 years from now that pick becomes another Brayden Point, you have a faulty argument

The only thing overwhelmingly apparent is that your argument is critically faulty, John! I’m sorry to say 

I'm sorry to say that your reasoning is beyond my ability to comprehend. We're simply two different ships passing in the night in the middle of the ocean. That's okay. 

[JohnC]

11 minutes ago, Taro T said:

With all due respect, by that logic, a trade of Dahlin for another team's 1st and 2nd round draft picks for 6 consecutive years starting 10 years from now will be an overwhelming win for the Sabres.  Because with a competent GM, about 4 years into that run the Sabres should start having an overwhelming amount of talent coming on board and Dahlin will be in his early 30's and coming back down to the pack.

The time value of when things are useful CAN'T be neglected in an evaluation of a trade.  How much good will and money was lost to the team by fans not showing up & was hemorrhaged over the 3 seasons where the Sabres were trash and the closest thing to a valuable on-ice asset was the Tage Thompson that tore up his shoulder taking a routine check into the boards?  

This wasn't even a Niewendyk for Iginla trade where it was obvious to all that Joe was a star in his prime and Jerome was going to be a star and both would fit the timeline of the team they were getting traded to better than they fit with their old team's timeline.  There was no indication that Thompson was going to grow from a baby giraffe into a serious badass unicorn.  If there was, he wouldn't have lasted to the end of the 1st in the year he was drafted and he would've been the guy that St. Louis absolutely refused to part with.    

Let's go back to when ROR was here. He wanted out. He was in a state of malaise. The owner instructed his staff to get him out of town before his bonus kicked in. So the Sabres traded the disgruntled (understandably so) player for a trade that included Tage and a first round pick that turned into (hopefully) Ryan Johnson. Did the Sabres believe that Tage was going to turn into a star? Of course not. That's why I said to @Thornyin hindsight. Looking back on this deal it has worked out really well for us because of the surprising development of Tage. There is no question that at that time the Sabres were in a state of turbulence. I mostly blame the owner for creating it. However, given where we are at now, I still comfortably come to the conclusion that this deal has worked out marvelously well for us. Even if it was due to unforeseen good fortune, I  gladly accept it. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by JohnC

[Thorny]

12 minutes ago, Taro T said:

With all due respect, by that logic, a trade of Dahlin for another team's 1st and 2nd round draft picks for 6 consecutive years starting 10 years from now will be an overwhelming win for the Sabres.  Because with a competent GM, about 4 years into that run the Sabres should start having an overwhelming amount of talent coming on board and Dahlin will be in his early 30's and coming back down to the pack.

The time value of when things are useful CAN'T be neglected in an evaluation of a trade.  How much good will and money was lost to the team by fans not showing up & was hemorrhaged over the 3 seasons where the Sabres were trash and the closest thing to a valuable on-ice asset was the Tage Thompson that tore up his shoulder taking a routine check into the boards?  

This wasn't even a Niewendyk for Iginla trade where it was obvious to all that Joe was a star in his prime and Jerome was going to be a star and both would fit the timeline of the team they were getting traded to better than they fit with their old team's timeline.  There was no indication that Thompson was going to grow from a baby giraffe into a serious badass unicorn.  If there was, he wouldn't have lasted to the end of the 1st in the year he was drafted and he would've been the guy that St. Louis absolutely refused to part with.    

Exactly, and not only that, we dealt ROR *exactly the season* Eichel started his LT contract and became a point a game guy lol. We downgraded severely at EXACTLY the time you want to supplement the talent we have 

it’s a putrid trade 

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Let's go back to when ROR was here. He wanted out. He was in a state of malaise. The owner instructed his staff to get him out of town before his bonus kicked in. So the Sabres traded the disgruntled (understandably so) player for a trade that included Tage and a first round pick that turned into (hopefully) Ryan Johnson. Did the Sabres believe that Tage was going to turn into a star? Of course not. That's why I said to @Thornyin hindsight. Looking back on this deal it has worked out really well for us because of the surprising development of Tage. There is no question that the Sabres were in a state of turbulence. I mostly blame the owner for creating it. However, given where we are at now, I still comfortably come to the conclusion that this deal has worked out marvelously well for us. Even if it was due to unforeseen good fortune, I still gladly accept it. 

So 3 barely watchable seasons never happened?  They aren't included on the ledger?

Maybe they can get that Dahlin deal for Thompson as well.  Just 1 decade more to wait to see the fruits of those deals.

[Thorny]

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I'm sorry to say that your reasoning is beyond my ability to comprehend. We're simply two different ships passing in the night in the middle of the ocean. That's okay. 

^ Always my favourite part of making the winning argument 

[JohnC]

Just now, Taro T said:

So 3 barely watchable seasons never happened?  They aren't included on the ledger?

Maybe they can get that Dahlin deal for Thompson as well.  Just 1 decade more to wait to see the fruits of those deals.

I don't understand the Dahlin relevancy on this issue. Do you really believe that I subscribed to the irrational and delusional notion that the Pegula stewardship was enlightened? Of course I don't. But what I can say is since KA took over this organization seems to be on the right track. When Pegula took over the organization was in a state of constant turmoil. As I said before I blame the owner for that. That's evident to everyone. I don't believe that's the case now.

[JohnC]

9 minutes ago, Thorny said:

^ Always my favourite part of making the winning argument 

Very often the issue isn't winning or losing an argument as it is presenting a different perspective. 

[erickompositör72]

39 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It’s only exceptional if you don’t consider the more immediate results, and you have not come close to, or as far as I can tell even attempted to formulate an argument for why how the deal affected the team during the first 3 years after the trade was made shouldn’t matter 

If the key principles of your argument could literally apply, word for word, for a defence of a Cozens for 3rd round pick argument, where in 3 years from now that pick becomes another Brayden Point, you have a faulty argument

The only thing overwhelmingly apparent is that your argument is critically faulty, John! I’m sorry to say 

 

31 minutes ago, Taro T said:

With all due respect, by that logic, a trade of Dahlin for another team's 1st and 2nd round draft picks for 6 consecutive years starting 10 years from now will be an overwhelming win for the Sabres.  Because with a competent GM, about 4 years into that run the Sabres should start having an overwhelming amount of talent coming on board and Dahlin will be in his early 30's and coming back down to the pack.

The time value of when things are useful CAN'T be neglected in an evaluation of a trade.  How much good will and money was lost to the team by fans not showing up & was hemorrhaged over the 3 seasons where the Sabres were trash and the closest thing to a valuable on-ice asset was the Tage Thompson that tore up his shoulder taking a routine check into the boards?  

This wasn't even a Niewendyk for Iginla trade where it was obvious to all that Joe was a star in his prime and Jerome was going to be a star and both would fit the timeline of the team they were getting traded to better than they fit with their old team's timeline.  There was no indication that Thompson was going to grow from a baby giraffe into a serious badass unicorn.  If there was, he wouldn't have lasted to the end of the 1st in the year he was drafted and he would've been the guy that St. Louis absolutely refused to part with.    

Just playing devil's advocate, but it could be argued that GMBott saw the immense potential in Tage, but failed to put in place the coaching to develop it.

That is truly apples to oranges vs. hoping a 3rd round pick turns into Brayden Point.

The reality is, there was a lot more wrong with the team at the time than ROR, and as @JohnC pointed out, we weren't keeping him, anyway.

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Very often the issue isn't winning or losing an argument as it is presenting a different perspective. 

More less agree, but in this case your perspective, very notably uncharacteristically I might add, seems needlessly limited. Your initial statement was that it worked out “enormously in our favour”. Limiting your perspective to an analysis of the effects to purely a time frame of greater than three years when we *indisputably* we’re concerned/needed to be concerned with winning *at that time* is just argumental bias. It didn’t work out well for us for the first 3-4 years, no reason to ignore that, and it’s where my Cozens example and @Taro T’s Dahlin hypothetical factor in, to answer your question 

10 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I don't understand the Dahlin relevancy on this issue. Do you really believe that I subscribed to the irrational and delusional notion that the Pegula stewardship was enlightened? Of course I don't. But what I can say is since KA took over this organization seems to be on the right track. When Pegula took over the organization was in a state of constant turmoil. As I said before I blame the owner for that. That's evident to everyone. I don't believe that's the case now.

 

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, erickompositör72 said:

 

Just playing devil's advocate, but it could be argued that GMBott saw the immense potential in Tage, but failed to put in place the coaching to develop it.

That is truly apples to oranges vs. hoping a 3rd round pick turns into Brayden Point.

The reality is, there was a lot more wrong with the team at the time than ROR, and as @JohnC pointed out, we weren't keeping him, anyway.

We don't know what the behind the scenes negotiating was. But if memory serves me right it was widely reported that St. Louis had two non-touch prospects that they weren't go to deal. So the Sabres got the third ranked prospect in their system. I don't believe anyone thought (St.Louis or Buffalo) that Tage was going to turn out to be as good as he is.  

The problems that the Sabres were facing went beyond the team. There was systemic organizational chaos that kept this franchise sunk for a long time. I believe that those sabotaging problems have been resolved since the installation of Kevin Adams. I attribute most of the tumult to the owner. 

[Thorny]

15 minutes ago, erickompositör72 said:

 

Just playing devil's advocate, but it could be argued that GMBott saw the immense potential in Tage, but failed to put in place the coaching to develop it.

That is truly apples to oranges vs. hoping a 3rd round pick turns into Brayden Point.

The reality is, there was a lot more wrong with the team at the time than ROR, and as @JohnC pointed out, we weren't keeping him, anyway.

It’s apples to oranges only in severity, but not in logic: the Cozens for a third is of course *worse*, but that in effect serves my argument: that is indeed the reason I used it, and I was hoping someone would ask, so thanks. The fact an even worse deal could be proclaimed to have “wonderful results” is exactly my point in how poor the logic is. 

Botterill didn’t see Top 10 scorer in Tage. If he did, Pegula never would have had to employ a deadline. 

And, finally, regardless, and most important, as @Dr. Who mentioned above: by far the central factor in my argument is timing 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Thorny

[Flashsabre]

https://theathletic.com/4342660/2023/03/25/devon-levi-sabres-goalie-expectations-juuse-saros-predators/

Saros studies Levi as a goalie.

Its fate to bring Saros to Buffalo this summer.😀