Jack Eichel and 2023 3rd Traded to Vegas for F Alex Tuch, C Peyton Krebs, 2022 1st Top Ten Protected and 2023 2nd

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, woods-racer said:

 

 

Good= 2 players per year that in 3-4 years from their draft year become NHL players that are in the starting lineup for a team for a minimum of 5 years.

Exceptional= 3 players per year that in 2-5 years from their draft become NHL players with at least 1 player considered top 16 in the NHL at their position.

KA's floor needs to be good, I am expecting more towards exceptional with the staff he has assembled.

"Exceptional" equating getting another top 5 pick in a loaded 2023 draft.

Nobody will have any qualms if they find 3-4 NHLers I each of the next 2 drafts. 

[LGR4GM]

41 minutes ago, woods-racer said:

 

 

Good= 2 players per year that in 3-4 years from their draft year become NHL players that are in the starting lineup for a team for a minimum of 5 years.

Exceptional= 3 players per year that in 2-5 years from their draft become NHL players with at least 1 player considered top 16 in the NHL at their position.

KA's floor needs to be good, I am expecting more towards exceptional with the staff he has assembled.

Exceptional would be nice

32 minutes ago, Taro T said:

"Exceptional" equating getting another top 5 pick in a loaded 2023 draft.

Nobody will have any qualms if they find 3-4 NHLers I each of the next 2 drafts. 

2023 currently has at least 1 generational talent and at least 2 more guys that might be. There's 3 guys in that draft right now that are Eichel level or better and I am not exaggerating. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

Being on Lindros' wing helped a little. Who is our Lindros?

 

[Doohickie]

3 hours ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

Being on Lindros' wing helped a little. Who is our Lindros?

Alex Tuch.

 

Oh, wait...

[French Collection]

Sabres Legion of Doom, without the Boom:

Tuch, Thompson and Murray.

[jsb]

4 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Sabres Legion of Doom, without the Boom:

Tuch, Thompson and Murray.

Murray is a 6'5 240lb p*ssy. He should be a 3rd/4th line hit machine and he'll never be that. Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Exceptional would be nice

2023 currently has at least 1 generational talent and at least 2 more guys that might be. There's 3 guys in that draft right now that are Eichel level or better and I am not exaggerating. 

And the concern for this kid is might that potential candy store be enticing enough for Adams to be OK heading into next season w/ UPL backed up by Tokarski w/ Levi developing in Ra-cha-cha.  If those guys play at an NHL quality level he wins, & if they don't, well he still wins but we all lose.

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

And the concern for this kid is might that potential candy store be enticing enough for Adams to be OK heading into next season w/ UPL backed up by Tokarski w/ Levi developing in Ra-cha-cha.  If those guys play at an NHL quality level he wins, & if they don't, well he still wins but we all lose.

I can't tell yet if Adams is playing 4d chess. He's definitely playing 3d chess as opposed to Murray who played checkers. 

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

I can't tell yet if Adams is playing 4d chess. He's definitely playing 3d chess as opposed to Murray who played checkers. 

Murray's huge downfall was he didn't realize these players weren't horses where all that matters is the raw physical attributes and how they individually mesh w/ the other horses doesn't matter 1 flying ####.

Adams definitely has a plan.  Just hoping his cup winning experience with a very young goalie playing over his head & a journeyman also playing over his head doesn't color his perception of how to implement that plan too greatly.  Because that plan of "goalies are interchangable" never would've worked without that squad only losing 1 player throughout the entire cup run & that player getting replaced by Eric Cole who was finally healthy for the final game; all while his opponents lost a Captain to a high stick to his eye, a center finally playing the way he was supposed to do when drafted & then traded for along w/ 4 D, and then lastly a starting goalie.  THAT sort of luck might be seen at most twice in a lifetime, and it's already happened once; he being the beneficiary of it twice has astronomical odds against happening.

Truthfully, he's playing like a guy w/ a ridiculously long leash.

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Murray's huge downfall was he didn't realize these players weren't horses where all that matters is the raw physical attributes and how they individually mesh w/ the other horses doesn't matter 1 flying ####.

Adams definitely has a plan.  Just hoping his cup winning experience with a very young goalie playing over his head & a journeyman also playing over his head doesn't color his perception of how to implement that plan too greatly.  Because that plan of "goalies are interchangable" never would've worked without that squad only losing 1 player throughout the entire cup run & that player getting replaced by Eric Cole who was finally healthy for the final game; all while his opponents lost a Captain to a high stick to his eye, a center finally playing the way he was supposed to do when drafted & then traded for along w/ 4 D, and then lastly a starting goalie.  THAT sort of luck might be seen at most twice in a lifetime, and it's already happened once; he being the beneficiary of it twice has astronomical odds against happening.

Truthfully, he's playing like a guy w/ a ridiculously long leash.

I think Adams has another 2 years before playoffs is expected

[dudacek]

He’s going to let it happen organically.

But organically should start happening next year.

If the kids continue to grow, we should not be in the race for a lottery ball.

Even if he sticks with Anderson and UPL.

(For the record, he should not)

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think Adams has another 2 years before playoffs is expected

Easily.

(And sadly.)

[woods-racer]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Easily.

(And sadly.)

I'm assuming your not blaming Adams for the failings of previous GMs. It's just sad that it took till KA to see a plan and for it to appear to be well conceived.

[woods-racer]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Exceptional would be nice

2023 currently has at least 1 generational talent and at least 2 more guys that might be. There's 3 guys in that draft right now that are Eichel level or better and I am not exaggerating. 

It would be an exception from most of the previous 15 years of drafting.  To string together multiple years of good to exceptional drafting has not been done by the Sabres since?

The other half of that is allowing your picks to mature in a good environment. That I believe actually started under Boterill and KA has doubled down on it.

[triumph_communes]

Murray spent all the inheritance on problematic shiny turds

KA bought hope with a broken car

Cant blame KA, nothing is going to have much traction after being stopped in the mud

Edited January 23, 2022 by triumph_communes

[klos1963]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I can't tell yet if Adams is playing 4d chess. He's definitely playing 3d chess as opposed to Murray who played checkers. 

Murray played beer pong.

[Taro T]

18 minutes ago, woods-racer said:

I'm assuming your not blaming Adams for the failings of previous GMs. It's just sad that it took till KA to see a plan and for it to appear to be well conceived.

No.  But am of the opinion that every position grouping should be getting improved every season if possible.  Having 2 more Mulligans, which he very likely does have, means he may very well be willing to ride what he has in net for at least 1 more season.  And, again IMHO, that would be a huge mistake.  The possibility of getting Bedard or the Russian stud or the other guy isn't worth having these kids go through the motions once more when giving them NHL quality GTing will enable them to actually measurably track their progress.  

If they miss the playoffs next year (as they likely will) but have a Rags-like luck in the lottery, so be it; grab the kid that projects out the best and don't look back.  But enough w/ not giving any legit backstoppers w/ the inevitable bottom 4 finish.  If they luck into a stud, cool.  But don't set the kids up for failure.  It'll grow old.  These kids are busting their butts & deserve to get support from management.  A real goalie will only block the kids if he'd do something he won't do - namely give a LT NMC contract to 1.

And, if he does get 2 more passes, that'll have been 4 years w/ no expectations.  Who in this world gets that long to learn/ grow into ANY job?

[mjd1001]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

If they miss the playoffs next year (as they likely will) but have a Rags-like luck in the lottery, so be it; grab the kid that projects out the best and don't look back.  But enough w/ not giving any legit backstoppers w/ the inevitable bottom 4 finish.  If they luck into a stud, cool.  But don't set the kids up for failure.  It'll grow old.  These kids are busting their butts & deserve to get support from management.  A real goalie will only block the kids if he'd do something he won't do - namely give a LT NMC contract to 1.

And, if he does get 2 more passes, that'll have been 4 years w/ no expectations.  Who in this world gets that long to learn/ grow into ANY job?

I was all for the tank and I believe in building through the draft, and if they don't sign another big name free agent ever I'm happy.  With that said, its time to stop the losing after this year and go 100% for wins.

You already have a bunch of young, 1st round talent that you are hoping keeps better and have flashed signs of potential stardom:  Thompson, Cozens, Krebs, Quinn, Dahlin, Mittelstadt, Jokijarju, and Samuelson (one pick away from a 1st rounder)

You have vets with 1st round pedigree/talent:  Tuch, Skinner, Girgensons, Okposo

You have a LOT of guys that haven't made the NHL yet with close to 1st round talent or pedigree: Owen Power, Rosen, JJ Peterka, Ryan Johnson.

You will have another top 6-8 pick this year (if not better with a little luck) and a few other 1st rounders you got in a trade.

Even your goalie situation is looking hopefully a couple years out.

Time to stop the semi-intentional losing after this year. Let the young guys step up to bigger roles, and STRATEGICALLY plug holes with mid-level free agents.

 

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

And the concern for this kid is might that potential candy store be enticing enough for Adams to be OK heading into next season w/ UPL backed up by Tokarski w/ Levi developing in Ra-cha-cha.  If those guys play at an NHL quality level he wins, & if they don't, well he still wins but we all lose.

I agree. Next season can’t be a “this season was never about winning anyways” year. Too detrimental, I’d wager. 

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I think Adams has another 2 years before playoffs is expected

As in playoffs isn’t the barometer for the organization until 2025? 

[SabresVet]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I think Adams has another 2 years before playoffs is expected

The Pegula's don't have 2 years worth of patience seeing ticket sales equivalent to 45% of arena capacity.  Especially if they're again among the bottom quartile of the league by mid-season next year.  

They need to be in the conversation for a playoff spot next season.  

Edited January 23, 2022 by SabresVet

[PromoTheRobot]

59 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

The Pegula's don't have 2 years worth of patience seeing ticket sales equivalent to 45% of arena capacity.  Especially if they're again among the bottom quartile of the league by mid-season next year.  

They need to be in the conversation for a playoff spot next season.  

Good thing they also own a profitable, good NFL franchise too.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, SabresVet said:

The Pegula's don't have 2 years worth of patience seeing ticket sales equivalent to 45% of arena capacity.  Especially if they're again among the bottom quartile of the league by mid-season next year.  

They need to be in the conversation for a playoff spot next season.  

I'll bet money more ppl will come to see this team next year with the young guys here and the border open. 

They'll be in the 8-12 range next year. 8-12 from the bottom. If they overachiever they can make the playoffs as an 8 seed. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by LGR4GM

[woods-racer]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

No.  But am of the opinion that every position grouping should be getting improved every season if possible.  Having 2 more Mulligans, which he very likely does have, means he may very well be willing to ride what he has in net for at least 1 more season.  And, again IMHO, that would be a huge mistake.  The possibility of getting Bedard or the Russian stud or the other guy isn't worth having these kids go through the motions once more when giving them NHL quality GTing will enable them to actually measurably track their progress.  

If they miss the playoffs next year (as they likely will) but have a Rags-like luck in the lottery, so be it; grab the kid that projects out the best and don't look back.  But enough w/ not giving any legit backstoppers w/ the inevitable bottom 4 finish.  If they luck into a stud, cool.  But don't set the kids up for failure.  It'll grow old.  These kids are busting their butts & deserve to get support from management.  A real goalie will only block the kids if he'd do something he won't do - namely give a LT NMC contract to 1.

And, if he does get 2 more passes, that'll have been 4 years w/ no expectations.  Who in this world gets that long to learn/ grow into ANY job?

I believe he doesn't get a pass for next season. If there isn't a jump in wins from this season he will be in the hot seat. If your total measurement is playoffs than yes, he get a pass for next season also. There has to be noticeable improvement from one year to the next for him to keep the job. As bad as our goalies are this year the team is much improved. It's almost a stroke of luck (if this is a tank year) our 3 best goalies will miss almost the entire season.

[jsb]

I think they'll be a vastly improved team next year but picking playoffs is a giant step with that very formidable top 8 teams in the east to pass up to get there. A couple or more of those teams are going to have to show their ages finally for us to get in and Detroit is on the rise as well. As for 4 years of KA, Pegula is going to have to show some patience and allow this rebuild to start that downhill momentum before you make a change unless it just totally blows up. KA gets at least 2 more years IMO. So far I think he'll deserve it. 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, woods-racer said:

I believe he doesn't get a pass for next season. If there isn't a jump in wins from this season he will be in the hot seat. If your total measurement is playoffs than yes, he get a pass for next season also. There has to be noticeable improvement from one year to the next for him to keep the job. As bad as our goalies are this year the team is much improved. It's almost a stroke of luck (if this is a tank year) our 3 best goalies will miss almost the entire season.

Agree.  But doubt the Pegulas will hold him to measurable improvement to keep his job after next season.  Hope that's an incorrect assumption.

33 minutes ago, jsb said:

I think they'll be a vastly improved team next year but picking playoffs is a giant step with that very formidable top 8 teams in the east to pass up to get there. A couple or more of those teams are going to have to show their ages finally for us to get in and Detroit is on the rise as well. As for 4 years of KA, Pegula is going to have to show some patience and allow this rebuild to start that downhill momentum before you make a change unless it just totally blows up. KA gets at least 2 more years IMO. So far I think he'll deserve it. 

Hope you're right about the improvement.  Agree that Adams should not be solely graded next year on making the playoffs.  But not as convinced as you and others are that there will be measurable improvement.  Because am not convinced that they will get NHL quality goaltending next year.  Hoping that expectation is off, but until they have 2 NHLers performing at that level won't believe they have them.  And, broken record here, really believe they need & deserve NHL GTing next year.  (Personally, believe they deserved it this year & last as well too.  Until they have it, we're still waiting for Adams to get it for a 1st time.  He needs to get it for a 1st time.)