Reinhart signs with FLA: 3 @ $6.5M

[postseasonblues]

At least they got Levi and a 1st that probably won't have a chance to make the team until after Adams and Granato are no longer here. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

9 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Yep.  Water under the bridge.

Every single GM and those damn bridges.  I blame JBOT mostly.

KA better not start this nonsense with Rasmus.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 hour ago, Happy Days said:

That is more than players such as Barkov, McKinnon, Marchand etc

 

Barkov and Marchand gave big home team discounts and MacKinnon is the best deal in the NHL from the team perspective.  Huge bargains on all, but especially MacKinnon.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

12 hours ago, inkman said:

He’ll be one of the best bargains in the league once MacKinnen gets his new deal 

MacKinnon has 2 years left and I think he will sign an extension next summer.  I know Nathan a bit and he is a regular and down to earth guy and I expect another very team friendly extension.  8 years at $7.5M, which may be his last contract.  

[Zamboni]

4 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

MacKinnon has 2 years left and I think he will sign an extension next summer.  I know Nathan a bit and he is a regular and down to earth guy and I expect another very team friendly extension.  8 years at $7.5M, which may be his last contract.  

For him? Hell, 10M a year would be “team friendly” 😂

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 minute ago, Zamboni said:

For him? Hell, 10M a year would be “team friendly” 😂

I agree, but he is not like that.  If he signs a contract as I outlined he would have made over $100M for his career by te time it ends.  He and his family will be very content.  He is anything, but greedy.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, jahnyc said:

Shouldn't the Sabres have negotiated a bump up in trade return if he signed a new contract with the Panthers?

The MOU doesn't allow trades to have conditional pieces based on whether a traded player under contract re-signs w/ the traded to club.  Believe Reinhart was still considered to be under contract as the trade happened before free agency opened.

[Thorny]

14 hours ago, inkman said:

He’ll be one of the best bargains in the league once MacKinnen gets his new deal 

I agree - he's going to light it up there. 

12 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Thanks, Jason.

And Adams. Adams could have signed him last offseason, it was only this summer he had made up his mind on leaving. Going to keep mentioning that. 

12 hours ago, dudacek said:

Reinhart also did very well for himself.

Fair value now, UFA at 28 after the flat cap ends and after padding his stats and his reputation on what should be a good Florida team.

Yup, exactly. This sets him up with reasonable money now and a soon-to-be big payday. He's a picture of health, he should be good to go. 

- - - 

We said at the time signing Hall could prove to be the wrong move because it cost us the LT Reinhart extension. Well, the cows have come home on that one. 

No one was too worried at the time, because hell we got Hall, but it did happen. It's on Botts and KA both

Edited August 12, 2021 by Thorny

[PromoTheRobot]

Anyone listening to The Instigators right now?  Rivet says the Sabres would have had to pay Sam $7.75/yr to equal the same take-home pay that he's getting in Florida. #NYSTaxes

[Sabres Fan in NS]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Anyone listening to The Instigators right now?  Rivet says the Sabres would have had to pay Sam $7.75/yr to equal the same take-home pay that he's getting in Florida. #NYSTaxes

They are perpetuating the myth that there is a huge tax difference between NY and FL.  Not really the case.  There is some difference, but not huge the way the players are paid, especially for road games.  The CBA smooths it all out pretty much.  We have had discussions about this over the years.  Income tax is not a very valid reason for a player not to play in Buffalo.  They are making a million bucks a year, or more, many a lot more, so boo hoo.

[Thorny]

There's a near 20% difference in tax rate? Not denying that just really surprised. Where's @Taro T

1 minute ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

They are perpetuating the myth that there is a huge tax difference between NY and FL.  Not really the case.  There is some difference, but not huge the way the players are paid, especially for road games.  The CBA smooths it all out pretty much.  We have had discussions about this over the years.  Income tax is not a very valid reason for a player not to play in Buffalo.  They are making a million bucks a year, or more, many a lot more, so boo hoo.

Good call. 

[thewookie1]

17 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I agree - he's going to light it up there. 

And Adams. Adams could have signed him last offseason, it was only this summer he had made up his mind on leaving. Going to keep mentioning that. 

Yup, exactly. This sets him up with reasonable money now and a soon-to-be big payday. He's a picture of health, he should be good to go. 

- - - 

We said at the time signing Hall could prove to be the wrong move because it cost us the LT Reinhart extension. Well, the cows have come home on that one. 

No one was too worried at the time, because hell we got Hall, but it did happen. It's on Botts and KA both

I put it more on Botts to be honest. Adams has some fault but he wasn't exactly played a great hand. Krueger had a lot of influence over the team last year and the Pegulas were doing NHL related austerity, in part due to COVID. Reinhart wanted term but Krueger likely didn't see much value in him based on his funnel everything to Hall and Eichel strategy. Reinhart wasn't a flashy player whereas Hall was. Krueger liked Hall and from a marketing angle, to the general public, it makes more sense to try and pick up a new flashy player than extend a currently existing player whom Kreuger may not of appreciated. Fast forward to this offseason and Adams likely wanted a longer term contract whereas Reinhart now wanted a really short term one.

 

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Just now, Thorny said:

There's a near 20% difference in tax rate? Not denying that just really surprised. Where's @Taro T

NO!!

You don't need @Taro T for this.  See my post above.  I'm a CPA dammit!! lol!!

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, thewookie1 said:

I put it more on Botts to be honest. Adams has some fault but he wasn't exactly played a great hand. Krueger had a lot of influence over the team last year and the Pegulas were doing NHL related austerity, in part due to COVID. Reinhart wanted term but Krueger likely didn't see much value in him based on his funnel everything to Hall and Eichel strategy. Reinhart wasn't a flashy player whereas Hall was. Krueger liked Hall and from a marketing angle, to the general public, it makes more sense to try and pick up a new flashy player than extend a currently existing player whom Kreuger may not of appreciated. Fast forward to this offseason and Adams likely wanted a longer term contract whereas Reinhart now wanted a really short term one.

 

 

I agree with you, it's more on Botterill. 

[woods-racer]

5 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

They are perpetuating the myth that there is a huge tax difference between NY and FL.  Not really the case.  There is some difference, but not huge the way the players are paid, especially for road games.  The CBA smooths it all out pretty much.  We have had discussions about this over the years.  Income tax is not a very valid reason for a player not to play in Buffalo.  They are making a million bucks a year, or more, many a lot more, so boo hoo.

NYS has 8.5% plus(there are county and municipality taxes on top) payroll tax. Florida has zero. 

The league(each team) must pay tax to the home State/municipalities in which the game is played in. So Florida players must pay NYS taxes when playing in Buffalo.

BUT,

Players that play for NYS teams must pay their 8.5% to NYS even when playing in Florida. 

If they play in Pittsburg or Philadelphia they will all pay the PA tax of 3.5%, but players from NYS will need to pay the remaining balance of 5% to NYS. 

I do business in those three States.

I believe only California has a higher payroll tax and that is the only time that NYS doesn't see a payroll tax.

[Digger]

3 hours ago, postseasonblues said:

At least they got Levi and a 1st that probably won't have a chance to make the team until after Adams and Granato are no longer here. 

It's kind of depressing to me.  We traded Reinhart who led our team in scoring last season and replaced him with a top 10 protected 1st for next year and a goalie prospect in Levi.  Sam signs a deal for 3 years.  It's quite conceivable that the Sabres will not have a player on their roster from this trade deal until Reinhart signs his next contract.

[nfreeman]

22 minutes ago, woods-racer said:

NYS has 8.5% plus(there are county and municipality taxes on top) payroll tax. Florida has zero. 

The league(each team) must pay tax to the home State/municipalities in which the game is played in. So Florida players must pay NYS taxes when playing in Buffalo.

BUT,

Players that play for NYS teams must pay their 8.5% to NYS even when playing in Florida. 

If they play in Pittsburg or Philadelphia they will all pay the PA tax of 3.5%, but players from NYS will need to pay the remaining balance of 5% to NYS. 

I do business in those three States.

I believe only California has a higher payroll tax and that is the only time that NYS doesn't see a payroll tax.

This is good info, but I think the key point is that Florida players must pay state taxes to the states in which they play road games — so NY, Michigan and Massachusetts for divisional opponents.  NY and Massachusetts are high tax states, while Michigan is relatively low.  

Does anyone know whether the players pay taxes to the road jurisdictions for games in Canada?

In any case, the state tax rate paid by FLA players is well above zero.  If there are 41 road games in states with an average income tax rate of 5%, those players are effectively paying 2.5% in state income taxes.  That’s still a nice savings compared with 8.5% in WNY, but it’s $60K per $1MM in salary — so $390K for a $6.5MM salary — not over $1MM as Rivet apparently claimed.  

[inkman]

8 minutes ago, Digger said:

It's kind of depressing to me.  We traded Reinhart who led our team in scoring last season and replaced him with a top 10 protected 1st for next year and a goalie prospect in Levi.  Sam signs a deal for 3 years.  It's quite conceivable that the Sabres will not have a player on their roster from this trade deal until Reinhart signs his next contract.

It’s also quite possible neither of those players ever suits up for the Sabres 

[woods-racer]

18 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

This is good info, but I think the key point is that Florida players must pay state taxes to the states in which they play road games — so NY, Michigan and Massachusetts for divisional opponents.  NY and Massachusetts are high tax states, while Michigan is relatively low.  

Does anyone know whether the players pay taxes to the road jurisdictions for games in Canada?

In any case, the state tax rate paid by FLA players is well above zero.  If there are 41 road games in states with an average income tax rate of 5%, those players are effectively paying 2.5% in state income taxes.  That’s still a nice savings compared with 8.5% in WNY, but it’s $60K per $1MM in salary — so $390K for a $6.5MM salary — not over $1MM as Rivet apparently claimed.  

 

Rivet is right if you multiply that by the length of the contract.

3 years at 390k gets you well over a million saved.

 

[pi2000]

8 minutes ago, woods-racer said:

 

Rivet is right if you multiply that by the length of the contract.

3 years at 390k gets you well over a million saved.

 

...which is important to player who values money over anything else.     

Consider how much Josh Allen could've saved on his $258m deal, about $15m if my fuzzy math is correct.

[Taro T]

42 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

This is good info, but I think the key point is that Florida players must pay state taxes to the states in which they play road games — so NY, Michigan and Massachusetts for divisional opponents.  NY and Massachusetts are high tax states, while Michigan is relatively low.  

Does anyone know whether the players pay taxes to the road jurisdictions for games in Canada?

In any case, the state tax rate paid by FLA players is well above zero.  If there are 41 road games in states with an average income tax rate of 5%, those players are effectively paying 2.5% in state income taxes.  That’s still a nice savings compared with 8.5% in WNY, but it’s $60K per $1MM in salary — so $390K for a $6.5MM salary — not over $1MM as Rivet apparently claimed.  

Have never seen officially whether the income players have to report to road game jurisdictions is 1/82 of a season's income or ~1/160.  The players earn their NHL salary each day they are on the roster and not by game.  So, it would seem to typically be less than a full game's salary but if the team stays in a particular state for an extra few days could see it exceeding the regular assessed by game tax rate.

Have heard that a handful of jurisdictions have special out of town sporting event taxes on professional athletes and those are assessed on a per game sort of basis.  And as an aside, have heard tales of AHLers getting brief callups and actually owing pretty much their entire NHL salary in their brief callup in taxes.  No data on whether their tales are true or old wives tales. 

[mjd1001]

I think this is a great deal for Florida.

You get Sam for 3 years, but there is flexibility there beyond that. And that AAV of 6.5? If Sam is the 'average sam' of giving you 20-25 goals per year, you are paying what you should. However, Sam took a step up the 2nd half of last year...if he plays at that level, you are getting a bargain.  Add to that he did what he did in the past on the Sabres....he produced on wing and at center, and produced with great linemates and with lesser linemates....I just think it is a very good deal for Florida.

 

[nfreeman]

42 minutes ago, woods-racer said:

 

Rivet is right if you multiply that by the length of the contract.

3 years at 390k gets you well over a million saved.

 

Good call.  I didn’t realize Rivet was referring to total savings for the contract and not per year.  

[msw2112]

If Sam didn't want to re-sign in Buffalo after this season, better to get a 1st and a prospect than have him walk away for nothing.  They probably wouldn't have gotten as much at the deadline as a rental.  I still think he was worth more on the trade market (I think he's a more valuable player than Risto, who netted a much larger package), but I wasn't negotiating with the other GMs, so I don't really know.

As to the contract with Florida, I think this is a great deal for the team.  They get a highly productive winger and potential center in his prime at a reasonable rate.  If, at the end of the deal, both sides are happy with the relationship, they can re-sign him.  If his play is looking like it may decline due to his age, they can move on.  I think Sam could have gotten more money or term, but he may also want to bet on himself and cash in bigger in 3 years after the deal expires, if he plays well and the cap goes up.  He may also wish to look at going back to his hometown Canucks after this deal expires.

[Huckleberry]

Also the florida tax discount I suppose, would have been 8 mill a year in buffalo?