Goaltending this season and Beyond

[Pimlach]

On 8/21/2021 at 2:16 PM, bob_sauve28 said:

So right now it’s UPL getting 41 games and Craig Anderson gets 41

 

 

Probably a goaltending committee.  I hope UPL starts in Rochester and is the #1 there for at least  25 games, then comes up and eventually takes the reigns based on strong play.  

[Weave]

Doohickie, you have piqued my interest.  I'll keep an open mind for half a period.

[Rasmus_]

I honestly think we're going to be active in waiver claims and looking to do things similar but not to the same degree as Arizona.   You have to think that they will look at any and all options.  

Edited August 24, 2021 by Rasmus_

[Andrew Amerk]

2 hours ago, Rasmus_ said:

I honestly think we're going to be active in waiver claims and looking to do things similar but not to the same degree as Arizona.   You have to think that they will look at any and all options.  

The Sabres aren’t going to be looking at more G options. They are set with what they wanted. 

[Doohickie]

4 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I hope your enthusiasm for Dell turns out to be correct.  

Could it be he was buried on New Jersey depth chart (7 games)  because he was not as good as their other goalies?  He was behind Blackwood and Wedgewood, not exactly a dynamic duo.  

Keep this in mind, the Boston Bruins had an equal opportunity to sign Dell and Ullmark.  They made a very strong commitment to Ullmark.   I am going to trust the talent evaluation of the Boston Bruins on this one.  

You're right, of course.  I was just surprised when I compared the stat lines of the two goalies... they're almost identical.  Yes, I know Ullmark's been trending up and Dell is more erratic, but I'm slightly more optimistic than I was before.  Hopefully KA acquires someone even better and it all becomes a moot point.

3 hours ago, Weave said:

Doohickie, you have piqued my interest.  I'll keep an open mind for half a period.

I was frankly kind of shocked that the stat lines for the two goalies are nearly identical, but one's getting $5M a season and the other league minimum.  Maybe this is one of those cases where the analytics department saw something good.

[Doohickie]

22 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

The Sabres aren’t going to be looking at more G options. They are set with what they wanted. 

I disagree.  Both Dell and Anderson are on league minimum "show me" contracts.  If something better shakes loose the Sabres will grab it.

[Taro T]

14 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I disagree.  Both Dell and Anderson are on league minimum "show me" contracts.  If something better shakes loose the Sabres will  might grab it.

FTFY.

Not convinced that, at this point, they want an "established" goalie (that is young enough to not actually remember the Reagan years) when a top 3 draft pick in an "up year" is available.  Adams was smart enough to never utter either "suffering" nor the T-word, but it's pretty clear he won't be too bunged up by a 30+ finish.

Personally, don't see how they find out what the kids can do if they have bottom 5 goaltending.  And really can't see the current 3 headed monster even breaking into the teens for quality.  Being only the 10th worst would be an accomplishment in net for this crew.

[pi2000]

5 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Dell's save % over the last 3 seasons is .895 in 65 games on terrible teams.  Ullmark's over the same period on equally bad teams in .911 in 91 games.

The best ability is availability.

[Buffalonill]

10 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I disagree.  Both Dell and Anderson are on league minimum "show me" contracts.  If something better shakes loose the Sabres will grab it.

 Buffalo had many opportunities to get a  Goalie last year in  wavers or trade they did nothing 

[GASabresIUFAN]

51 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

 Buffalo had many opportunities to get a  Goalie last year in  wavers or trade they did nothing 

That isn't exactly true.  The signed Tokarski and he ended up playing  13 games for us.  

We also had a ton of goalies in the system last year.  We had a good starter, Ullmark, and questionable backup Hutton, a good prospect in UPL, 2 signed vets in Tokaraki and Houser and an aging prospect in Johansson.  All appeared in the NHL for us last year because of injuries and trades.  With this stable, my only disappointment was not upgrading Hutton because of his past poor performances and Ullmark injury history.  KA spent all his money on Hall and didn't upgrade Hutton.  Instead he added Tokarski as Hutton 2.0.

This season we need a real plan in net beside pray that the injury prone starter wanted to stick around.  Instead we got the declining 3rd stringer from NJ and a guy contemplating retirement.

[Archie Lee]

The one thing I hope with goaltending this coming season is that we don't just continually stick with a guy who is not playing well.  The last 2 years we stuck with Hutton long past the point were it was obvious he wasn't good enough.  I know that Tokarski is not an exciting option; but his #'s v. Hutton's #'s last year = almost a 1/2 goal less against per game.

The only goalie in our current stable that the organization is committed to is Luukkonen.  He should be playing in the environment that is best conducive to his development.  The other guys should be rotated based on how they are playing.   If Dell or Anderson start the year giving us .905 or better then that is likely all that can be hoped for.  But if they are giving us .895, then Tokarski (or even Houser) should get a shot and/or waivers should be explored.   

[GASabresIUFAN]

Admittedly I have beaten this dead horse pretty badly over the signings of Anderson and Dell.  I don't think either guys is currently an NHL caliber goaltender any longer.  Maybe Dell will prove me wrong.   I also don't think and frankly can't understand why KA (other then incompetence) would think that UPL, whose save% was 37th in goalies with 10+ games AHL last season, could suddenly be NHL ready.

However there is a small ray of hope for the goaltending.  There are two major events coming where a new goaltender could find his way here.  First the Eichel trade.  Maybe a decent goaltender will be the cap casualty or a young vet in the Eichel trade.  For example, maybe Georgiev will be a piece if Eichel is traded to the NYR. Secondly, trades or waivers during or following training camp.  Last year guys like Nedjelkovic and Forsberg were waived following camp.  Det smartly grabbed Nedelkovic.  Right now Dallas has a 3 headed goalie monster and in desperate need of cap space.   Right now any of the 3 would upgrade our group, but they can only waive Holtby or Khudobin. I expect a trade here rather then one getting waived.

See I'm not all negative.

[inkman]

17 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Interesting.  Is there a big difference between these two stat lines?  I mean, is either one of these goalies clearly better than the other?

In 114 NHL games, 2.83 GAA, .906 SV% 49W, 39L, 12OL

In 117 NHL games, 2.78 GAA, .912 SV% 50W, 47L, 13OL

Since when are wins and losses a goalie metric? 

12 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I disagree.  Both Dell and Anderson are on league minimum "show me" contracts.  If something better shakes loose the Sabres will grab it.

I’ll believe it when I see it 

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That isn't exactly true.  The signed Tokarski and he ended up playing  13 games for us.  

We also had a ton of goalies in the system last year.  We had a good starter, Ullmark, and questionable backup Hutton, a good prospect in UPL, 2 signed vets in Tokaraki and Houser and an aging prospect in Johansson.  All appeared in the NHL for us last year because of injuries and trades.  With this stable, my only disappointment was not upgrading Hutton because of his past poor performances and Ullmark injury history.  KA spent all his money on Hall and didn't upgrade Hutton.  Instead he added Tokarski as Hutton 2.0.

This season we need a real plan in net beside pray that the injury prone starter wanted to stick around.  Instead we got the declining 3rd stringer from NJ and a guy contemplating retirement.

His work at GT has to me, undoubtedly been KA's weakest area as GM so far in terms of roster building. I don't think he's made one good move at the position since becoming GM, and we have gotten significantly worse there since he took over. 

It's his version of Botterill's 2C neglect, thus far

[Doohickie]

2 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

 Buffalo had many opportunities to get a  Goalie last year in  wavers or trade they did nothing 

Again.... up through March the team was following Krueger's plan; the GM position was propping up Krueger's plan.  Once he was fired Adams started to implement his own plan.

[Doohickie]

2 hours ago, inkman said:

Since when are wins and losses a goalie metric? 

Putting them into the line was an afterthought.  I was primarily focused on GAA and SV%.

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Again.... up through March the team was following Krueger's plan; the GM position was propping up Krueger's plan.  Once he was fired Adams started to implement his own plan.

This is reasonable as a theory but what started as "Krueger had a lot of influence" has morphed over a few short weeks into "Krueger was the GM and it was his plan in entirety", and I'm not sure we have the evidence to absolve Adams to the extreme extent we have been

Edited August 25, 2021 by Thorny

[Doohickie]

Here, try these on

[Thorny]

9 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Here, try these on

[Buffalonill]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Again.... up through March the team was following Krueger's plan; the GM position was propping up Krueger's plan.  Once he was fired Adams started to implement his own plan.

Ok so the plan is to sign the worst goalie tandem in the league ? 

[LabattBlue]

17 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

The Sabres aren’t going to be looking at more G options. They are set with what they wanted. 

...and you know this how?   If KA feels happy with his choices in goal, and this is how the team will start the season in goal, he should be fired just prior to Game 1.   That is unless the plan is to tank via the crease...in that case, he will be patting himself on the back for a job well done. 

[Doohickie]

7 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Ok so the plan is to sign the worst goalie tandem in the league ? 

Let's see how the goalies on the roster play in October and then we can talk some more.

[Buffalonill]

2 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

...and you know this how?   If KA feels happy with his choices in goal, and this is how the team will start the season in goal, he should be fired just prior to Game 1.   That is unless the plan is to tank via the crease...in that case, he will be patting himself on the back for a job well done. 

This season is pretty much going to suck again but people can have "hope " I'm not 

[Buffalonill]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

Let's see how the goalies on the roster play in October and then we can talk some more.

I would love to have your "positive outlook" .

But We basically just signed a guy that was retired and a guy that has let in close to 3 goals a game and has been absolutely horrible the last 3 years ..

 

I see nothing good here 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

4 hours ago, Thorny said:

Hot Rod sighting.  Love the Piper.  RIP.