Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[K-9]

2 hours ago, kas23 said:

If I were Jack, assuming I knew all the medical information and risks, would take on the financial risk and have the ADR done. He’s already made more money than all of us would make in a lifetime and could comfortably retire even if his remaining contract was voided. He’s 24. I don’t think he’s getting the right advice here, especially from his agents, who have a financial interest on that $50M remaining. This whole situation is being driven by greed, on both sides. 
 

However, there could be teams that automatically drop out if he gets the ADR. I don’t believe a single word that other teams would readily allow him to have the ADR. That’s his agents feeding the press. 

I don’t see the greed on both sides. I think the Sabres would fully understand and accept it if Eichel decided to retire. Nobody could blame him in in the least. 

[klos1963]

10 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I don’t see the greed on both sides. I think the Sabres would fully understand and accept it if Eichel decided to retire. Nobody could blame him in in the least. 

I wonder if that is a serious consideration. Quite interesting if it is.

[Doohickie]

35 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Going by such limited examples is not advisable anyway. Every case, every patient, every prognosis is different. 

Which is exactly why there's so much contention going on here.  Everyone is discounting the other side's position.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

2 hours ago, SDS said:

Video: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=575577382859345&id=1018880351564908&m_entstream_source=permalink

Very interesting.  Thanks for sharing.

There is NFW I am having that done if I'm John.

There is NFW I am having that done if I'm The Ghost of Doohickie, or NS.  Nope.  None.  Zero.

+++++

And I have just pushed this puppy onto page 340.

Yay for me ...

💣

[K-9]

12 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Which is exactly why there's so much contention going on here.  Everyone is discounting the other side's position.

There’s a fine line between defending your position and discounting someone else’s. 

Both sides in this matter are justified. 

[kas23]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

There's greed and there's liability. I don't see how the Sabres are being greedy other than wanting maximum return for Eichel. They don't want to be liable if the worst case scenario occurs.

Greed and liability are meaning the same thing in this case. Who’s going to lose $50M if things go wrong? Who’s potentially going to lose even more money if something catastrophic occurs and the Sabres went against their insurance policy and recommended a different surgery? Either case, it comes down to money lost, nothing else. Terry or Kim won’t lose one night of sleep if Jack’s surgery goes wrong as long as they don’t have to pay for the consequences. 

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Greed and liability are meaning the same thing in this case. Who’s going to lose $50M if things go wrong? Who’s potentially going to lose even more money if something catastrophic occurs and the Sabres went against their insurance policy and recommended a different surgery? Either case, it comes down to money lost, nothing else. Terry or Kim won’t lose one night of sleep if Jack’s surgery goes wrong as long as they don’t have to pay for the consequences. 

Greed is the wrong word to use here, imo, as I’ve never heard it used to describe someone protecting their interests. The Pegulas aren’t look to gouge anyone here, nor are they looking to profit off the situation. Don’t see where greed applies at all here.

[darksabre]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Greed is the wrong word to use here, imo, as I’ve never heard it used to describe someone protecting their interests. The Pegulas aren’t look to gouge anyone here, nor are they looking to profit off the situation. Don’t see where greed applies at all here.

Lots of people just want to Pegulas to be the villain all day every day.

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Lots of people just want to Pegulas to be the villain all day every day.

Seems that way. And it’s unfortunate. 

[PromoTheRobot]

14 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Greed and liability are meaning the same thing in this case. Who’s going to lose $50M if things go wrong? Who’s potentially going to lose even more money if something catastrophic occurs and the Sabres went against their insurance policy and recommended a different surgery? Either case, it comes down to money lost, nothing else. Terry or Kim won’t lose one night of sleep if Jack’s surgery goes wrong as long as they don’t have to pay for the consequences. 

How do you frame not wanting to lose $50MM with greed? You are also pretty flippant about other people's money. You also make quite an assumption about how Terry and Kim would feel if something bad happened to Jack.

Here's the part you're ignoring. If the Sabres give their approval for ADR and something horrible happens to Jack, the Sabres are liable. Jack can sue them for allowing him to get there surgery he wanted because the Sabres, because of the CBA, have the final say. 

Then $50MM is just the starting point of potential liability. But you don't seem to mind that.

[kas23]

1 minute ago, darksabre said:

Lots of people just want to Pegulas to be the villain all day every day.

Right now, the insurance company holds all liability. Terry will be receiving his payment soon if he hasn’t already. Now, Terry on Monday can decide that he wants to take all liability. He can cancel Jack’s insurance policy and tell him good luck in the OR. However, I’m never going to fault a business owner trying to maximize his/her profits. So, going against insurance’s advice would be a very poor business decision. This is what Jack’s agents are trying to do. 
 

However, for Jack, he is going about this as a business decision as well, when in fact it should be a personal decision. He’s the one with the broken body. He’s the one who’s going to have to live with any consequence of surgery. Therefore, he should do what is best for his long-term health. But, his mind is being clouded by $50M reasons. I don’t blame his agent for doing what is best for their interests, but where are Jack’s parents in all this?

[K-9]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

How do you frame not wanting to lose $50MM with greed? You are also pretty flippant about other people's money. You also make quite an assumption about how Terry and Kim would feel if something bad happened to Jack.

Here's the part you're ignoring. If the Sabres give their approval for ADR and something horrible happens to Jack, the Sabres are liable. Jack can sue them for allowing him to get there surgery he wanted because the Sabres, because of the CBA, have the final say. 

Then $50MM is just the starting point of potential liability. But you don't seem to mind that.

The potential liability issues alone make the $50m look like chicken feed.

In a previous time, the Pegulas were more than happy to see Eichel earn every penny of the $80m they signed him for and they’d have been more than happy to pay it. Every. Penny. 

[darksabre]

7 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Right now, the insurance company holds all liability. Terry will be receiving his payment soon if he hasn’t already. Now, Terry on Monday can decide that he wants to take all liability. He can cancel Jack’s insurance policy and tell him good luck in the OR. However, I’m never going to fault a business owner trying to maximize his/her profits. So, going against insurance’s advice would be a very poor business decision. This is what Jack’s agents are trying to do. 
 

However, for Jack, he is going about this as a business decision as well, when in fact it should be a personal decision. He’s the one with the broken body. He’s the one who’s going to have to live with any consequence of surgery. Therefore, he should do what is best for his long-term health. But, his mind is being clouded by $50M reasons. I don’t blame his agent for doing what is best for their interests, but where are Jack’s parents in all this?

Jack's parents? What? 

Guy wants his money. That's all there is to it. If he didn't want to get paid he could just get the surgery and wipe his hands clean of this entire chapter of his life.

[kas23]

10 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

How do you frame not wanting to lose $50MM with greed? You are also pretty flippant about other people's money. You also make quite an assumption about how Terry and Kim would feel if something bad happened to Jack.

Here's the part you're ignoring. If the Sabres give their approval for ADR and something horrible happens to Jack, the Sabres are liable. Jack can sue them for allowing him to get there surgery he wanted because the Sabres, because of the CBA, have the final say. 

Then $50MM is just the starting point of potential liability. But you don't seem to mind that.

Wasn’t ignoring that last part at all. (“Who’s potentially going to lose even more money if something catastrophic occurs and the Sabres went against their insurance policy and recommended a different surgery”)

 

Flippant? How else do you want a stranger to act on a message board, financially responsible for someone else’s money? 
 

To me, escaping the loss of $50M is almost the same as gaining $50M.

[kas23]

3 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Jack's parents? What? 

Guy wants his money. That's all there is to it. If he didn't want to get paid he could just get the surgery and wipe his hands clean of this entire chapter of his life.

Because the responsible thing would be to go get whatever surgery he thinks it’s best. The $50M he could potentially lose shouldn’t any role in this. He has already made enough money for him and his next generation to be extremely comfortable financially. His agents aren’t the ones suggest this, because then they lose a large slice of the pie. Someone has to be the voice of reason. 

[nfreeman]

15 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

How do you frame not wanting to lose $50MM with greed? You are also pretty flippant about other people's money. You also make quite an assumption about how Terry and Kim would feel if something bad happened to Jack.

Here's the part you're ignoring. If the Sabres give their approval for ADR and something horrible happens to Jack, the Sabres are liable. Jack can sue them for allowing him to get there surgery he wanted because the Sabres, because of the CBA, have the final say. 

Then $50MM is just the starting point of potential liability. But you don't seem to mind that.

This is probably not correct.  Jack would sign a bunch of documents stating that the Sabres wanted him not to have ADR, but that he was insisting on ADR, he understands and assumes all risk, he releases the team and TP from all liability, etc. 

If all that happened -- and it's pretty much certain that the Sabres would insist on that type of agreement -- and the surgery (or playing in the NHL following the ADR) went wrong, Jack could certainly sue anyway, but he would probably lose.

[Hoss]

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

Lots of people just want to Pegulas to be the villain all day every day.

They’re villains for the business they’re in. Whether they’re villains in the Eichel situation is debatable.

58 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Jack's parents? What? 

Guy wants his money. That's all there is to it. If he didn't want to get paid he could just get the surgery and wipe his hands clean of this entire chapter of his life.

I think there’s more to it than this. In a sense none of us can understand.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, kas23 said:

Wasn’t ignoring that last part at all. (“Who’s potentially going to lose even more money if something catastrophic occurs and the Sabres went against their insurance policy and recommended a different surgery”)

 

Flippant? How else do you want a stranger to act on a message board, financially responsible for someone else’s money? 
 

To me, escaping the loss of $50M is almost the same as gaining $50M.

You're wrong but we'll just have to leave it at that 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

This is probably not correct.  Jack would sign a bunch of documents stating that the Sabres wanted him not to have ADR, but that he was insisting on ADR, he understands and assumes all risk, he releases the team and TP from all liability, etc. 

If all that happened -- and it's pretty much certain that the Sabres would insist on that type of agreement -- and the surgery (or playing in the NHL following the ADR) went wrong, Jack could certainly sue anyway, but he would probably lose.

Would he lose? All his lawyers would have to show is the Sabres were contractually responsible for all medical decisions. That waiver? Jack signed it under duress.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

How do you frame not wanting to lose $50MM with greed? You are also pretty flippant about other people's money. You also make quite an assumption about how Terry and Kim would feel if something bad happened to Jack.

Here's the part you're ignoring. If the Sabres give their approval for ADR and something horrible happens to Jack, the Sabres are liable. Jack can sue them for allowing him to get there surgery he wanted because the Sabres, because of the CBA, have the final say. 

Then $50MM is just the starting point of potential liability. But you don't seem to mind that.

Perhaps our lawyers can weigh in, but I don’t think such a case has any chance of standing up in any court of law given what’s happened up until this point.

1 hour ago, kas23 said:

Right now, the insurance company holds all liability. Terry will be receiving his payment soon if he hasn’t already. Now, Terry on Monday can decide that he wants to take all liability. He can cancel Jack’s insurance policy and tell him good luck in the OR. However, I’m never going to fault a business owner trying to maximize his/her profits. So, going against insurance’s advice would be a very poor business decision. This is what Jack’s agents are trying to do. 
 

However, for Jack, he is going about this as a business decision as well, when in fact it should be a personal decision. He’s the one with the broken body. He’s the one who’s going to have to live with any consequence of surgery. Therefore, he should do what is best for his long-term health. But, his mind is being clouded by $50M reasons. I don’t blame his agent for doing what is best for their interests, but where are Jack’s parents in all this?

I am surprised by the amount of people discounting Jack Eichel’s ability to make a decision based on what he believes is best for his long-term health. Whether we agree with his conclusions or not, I think it is pretty clear he has done his research and he believes ADR is what’s best for his long-term.

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

Jack's parents? What? 

Guy wants his money. That's all there is to it. If he didn't want to get paid he could just get the surgery and wipe his hands clean of this entire chapter of his life.

But it is certainly not about just the money. It’s about the money, and about the ability to continue with his career and his passion, and about his long-term health. If all he wanted was to get paid he could just get fusion.

[Brawndo]

https://youtu.be/GmD8mtJMIsw

 

Here is the ACDF for comparsion, without the cool music that the ADR has. 

[GoPuckYourself]

It's entertaining watching grown men talk about another person's injury like they are speaking with Jack, his agents and all the Dr's in their free time.

[Hoss]

7 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

https://youtu.be/GmD8mtJMIsw

 

Here is the ACDF for comparsion, without the cool music that the ADR has. 

Is it possible the music that comes with the surgery is why Jack is so adamant?

[K-9]

21 minutes ago, dudacek said:

…But it is certainly not about just the money. It’s about the money, and about the ability to continue with his career and his passion, and about his long-term health. If all he wanted was to get paid he could just get fusion.

He’s currently getting paid, regardless. 

[Doohickie]

19 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

https://youtu.be/GmD8mtJMIsw

 

Here is the ACDF for comparsion, without the cool music that the ADR has. 

That's even more frightening.