Thorny Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, JohnC said: The timeline for that horizon is next year. And even when that particular clause kicks in giving him a say where he can be dealt that still doesn't mean that he has to be dealt. If you can't get good value for him then you keep him. I'm not arguing whether to deal him or not. The only condition for a trade is if dealt the return has to be comparable or near comparable to the value going out. As example would I trade Jack to the Rangers for Kakko and LaFreniere? My response is yes. I'm with you - but I don't think KA sees it that way. I think they are determined to be rid of him ASAP Evidence is on my side - they prioritized the quick removal of ROR over the return Granted, that was Botterill, but the puppet master remains in both scenarios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, Thorny said: I'm with you - but I don't think KA sees it that way. I think they are determined to be rid of him ASAP Evidence is on my side - they prioritized the quick removal of ROR over the return Granted, that was Botterill, but the puppet master remains in both scenarios I disagree with your conclusion that the evidence is on your side. What the evidence clearly demonstrates from the ROR deal is that because it was rushed/forced it turned out to be a disaster. I think KA and what should be chastened owners are smart enough to recognize that the ROR deal is a model of what not to do when making a deal. KA certainly recognizes that he has a valuable asset in Jack. If he decides to parlay it I'm confident that he is smart enough to get good value back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 18 minutes ago, Thorny said: I think it's probably about 50/50 - but that's purely anecdotal Looking at the broader fan base and talking to other fans in Buffalo it sure sounds like Eichel is quickly losing popularity in Buffalo. There is so much negative media coverage associated with the team. The BN article today on the recent former Sabres now playing in the playoffs leaves many confounded. Look at Johansson in goal and Hall on the Bruins. Prior to that Lehner and ROR. It only adds to the topic of culture associated with this team. When I think back to the birth of this franchise and the quick rise to prominence it makes me sad to see the current state. There was a time, for over 10 years, that a Sabres ticket was very hard to come by. 16,433. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 17 hours ago, Huckleberry said: The rangers might not be willing to let go of lafreniere, fox , shesterkin or kakko ( allthough kakko is a tier lower than those 3 ). But they are in a bidding war with the kings, and the kings might offer more. If we are sellling, we should always set the price high, because a lot of teams will be coming after jack. If we trade Eichel to NY then I feel we must get Lafreniere. If to the Kings, then we must get Byfield. Anyone else is a throw in but we must get a young 1C with big upside to replace Jack. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Pimlach said: If we trade Eichel to NY then I feel we must get Lafreniere. If to the Kings, then we must get Byfield. Anyone else is a throw in but we must get a young 1C with big upside to replace Jack. We already saw the analysis from@dudacek and @Thorny on this: that will not happen. Period. We need to think about what a fitty cent piece and two quarters look like for our dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 I really don't think that any Sabre fan would want to trade Eich. I think that the fans that want to trade him feel that it is necessary due to their belief that he does not want to play here, which seems to be not the case since we have been told that he has not requested a trade. Of course, I tend to not believe anything a player, or team management, say. For the record (again) if I was running the Sabres I would not trade Eich at this point. Neither Samson. Risto possibly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 12 hours ago, I-90 W said: We would be idiots to trade Eichel based on the fact that he seems to not want to play here anymore, for someone who definitely does not want to play here. Marchand can’t even stand visiting here when he plays against us and has explicitly said so in print. I just don’t get why hockey players hate visiting here to play a road game? In the winter how is Buffalo’s weather any different than most Canadian cities (accept Vancouver). It’s cold in Detroit, Chicago, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Philly, etc? Is Buffalo that lacking in hotel/restaurant quality that one night is unbearable? I don’t see it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 Just now, Pimlach said: I just don’t get why hockey players hate visiting here to play a road game? In the winter how is Buffalo’s weather any different than most Canadian cities (accept Vancouver). It’s cold in Detroit, Chicago, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Philly, etc? Is Buffalo that lacking in hotel/restaurant quality that one night is unbearable? I don’t see it. Chicago is a major metropolis, as is Philly. Pittsburgh is a well ran organization with Sidney Crosby. I don’t think players have a desire to play in Columbus. Detroit is an original six team headed by Stevie Y. Minneapolis is one of the biggest hockey cities in the US, but I still don’t think players are clamoring to go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 Just now, #freejame said: Chicago is a major metropolis, as is Philly. Pittsburgh is a well ran organization with Sidney Crosby. I don’t think players have a desire to play in Columbus. Detroit is an original six team headed by Stevie Y. Minneapolis is one of the biggest hockey cities in the US, but I still don’t think players are clamoring to go there. He's talking about visiting players not players reasons for not wanting to be a Sabre. In another context, your points are solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 8 minutes ago, Pimlach said: If we trade Eichel to NY then I feel we must get Lafreniere. If to the Kings, then we must get Byfield. Anyone else is a throw in but we must get a young 1C with big upside to replace Jack. I think if you go the lottery ticket route, we are probably going to end up with Turcotte as the centrepiece. 5th overall in 2019, high motor, complete player, USAHockey... he fits the Adams profile. https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=209490 I loved Turcotte heading into the draft, not so much now. He projects as a good, likable, rounded player — Drury, without the "born winner" mystique — but he is middle sixer, IMO. That's why I'd much rather be looking at a possibly available good young NHLer in a hockey trade, Matt Tkachuk, Seth Jones... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said: Blues fans I know said that Sobotka was done. According to those fans, he was below replacement level. In my book, that is below "run-of-the-mill." Berglund was older, but would qualify as somewhat above average for "run of the mill" by performance and function, but to the high end by age. In an Eichel trade, all "throw-in" players should be at least as defencively capable as Berglund and younger; one of them can even be in Okposo's salary range. No one should even give me a thought about being Sobotka level throughout his remaining contract. I live in St Louis. Sobotka was done. Berglund was unpopular and most fans thought he never lived up to his promise when drafted. He was very inconsistent, even in his prime years. Both were overpaid and in the way of younger and better players. Armstrong dumped his trash. They also got to keep their favorite prospects at the time (Thomas and Kyrou). It was a landslide win for St Louis and the Cup confirmed it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said: He's talking about visiting players not players reasons for not wanting to be a Sabre. In another context, your points are solid. Whoops, reading comprehension isn’t my strong suite. Chicago/Philly/Toronto/Montreal all fit the bill still, obviously the rest don’t apply. Edited May 16, 2021 by #freejame 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 3 hours ago, OverPowerYou said: Didn’t we spend the last 5 years lamenting the Ryan oreilly trade because he “didn’t want to be here?” I think we will just keep falling into the same cycle if we trade Eichel. You can't make someone love you. You can keep Eichel around till his deal expires. If he decides to act like an ass and bring the locker room down (while wearing the C, good forbid) what does it get you? Spares you the shame of losing the trade? This fear of not getting max value for Eichel will paralyze this franchise. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kong Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 Coming to the realization that Eichel is a "no I in teamwork" type of guy and Skinner is clueless. Wouldn't it be liberating to get rid of these two all in one swoop? Okposo too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 8 minutes ago, Kong said: Coming to the realization that Eichel is a "no I in teamwork" type of guy and Skinner is clueless. Wouldn't it be liberating to get rid of these two all in one swoop? Okposo too! Seattle 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 20 minutes ago, Kong said: Coming to the realization that Eichel is a "no I in teamwork" type of guy and Skinner is clueless. Wouldn't it be liberating to get rid of these two all in one swoop? Okposo too! Okposo....I wish he and his contract were not an issue, but to be honest, he isn't a problem when he is on the ice. He has learned to play his role and do it well. The problem is what he gives you is a good $2.5-$3 million dollar player that you are paying $6 million for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said: We already saw the analysis from@dudacek and @Thorny on this: that will not happen. Period. We need to think about what a fitty cent piece and two quarters look like for our dollars. @dudacekand @Thornyare fine contributors, but not NHL GMs. The fifty cent piece and 2 quarters tend to dissolve quickly. Demanding Lafreniere or Byfield is a better plan. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 Just now, Pimlach said: @dudacekand @Thornyare fine contributors, but not NHL GMs. The fifty cent piece and 2 quarters tend to dissolve quickly. Demanding Lafreniere or Byfield is a better plan. I would ask, but I do not expect it. If GMKA surprises me, great. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 2 hours ago, JohnC said: I disagree with your conclusion that the evidence is on your side. What the evidence clearly demonstrates from the ROR deal is that because it was rushed/forced it turned out to be a disaster. I think KA and what should be chastened owners are smart enough to recognize that the ROR deal is a model of what not to do when making a deal. KA certainly recognizes that he has a valuable asset in Jack. If he decides to parlay it I'm confident that he is smart enough to get good value back. But as I mentioned before, it depends on the reason the deal is being rushed. Compared and contrasted against the returns to be found in both. It was rushed for the wrong reasons last time, clearly. If Adams has reason to think the injury is a significant long term concern, there arguably is actually value in moving him sooner rather than later. It's been said: gotta let him show he's healthy, first. What if KA thinks Jack is going to come out looking like he did, to start this year, next year? Won't that drop his value? I'm not saying this is how I view Jack's injury necessarily, or what I would do if I was KA, but, I think it would be a mistake to assume we know too too much about this injury and the current dynamic - at least not to the point where we assume Adams *definitely* doesn't see value in a quick removal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 39 minutes ago, Pimlach said: @dudacekand @Thornyare fine contributors, but not NHL GMs. The fifty cent piece and 2 quarters tend to dissolve quickly. Demanding Lafreniere or Byfield is a better plan. Since when are GMs known for executing the better plan? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 I think Adams has already gauged the interest around the league. The second step is to see who is serious. Drury, if you want Eichel, we are going to have to have Lafreniere coming back as part of the deal. Blake, Byfield. Treliving, Tkachuk Murray, Zegras. And on down the line. See what prime assets might be on the table. If you have multiple teams stepping up with one, you are in good shape to set up a bidding war. If you have none, then you look at the counter offers and see what you can build off. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 And I thought this would be a boring off season , this is fun 😛 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 Does Matthew Tkachuk still have the value of a Byfield or Lafreniere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Thorny said: Does Matthew Tkachuk still have the value of a Byfield or Lafreniere? “Still” is an interesting choice of words. I would say his contract makes him a less valuable asset than either, but that is entirely based on projection; right now, he is a much better player. D+1 Tkachuk 76 13/35/48 D+1 Lafreniere 56 12/9/21 D+1 Byfield 6 0/1/1 D+1 Eichel 78 24/32/56 D+ Reinhart 9 0/1/1 Reinhart’s career highs are 25 goals and 65 points, Eichel’s are 36 and 82, Tkachuk’s 34 and 77. Edited May 16, 2021 by dudacek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, dudacek said: “Still” is an interesting choice of words. I would say his contract makes him a less valuable asset than either, but that is entirely based on projection; right now, he is a much better player. D+1 Tkachuk 76 13/35/48 D+1 Lafreniere 56 12/9/21 D+1 Byfield 6 0/1/1 D+1 Eichel 78 24/32/56 D+ Reinhart 9 0/1/1 Reinhart’s career highs are 25 goals and 65 points, Eichel’s are 36 and 82, Tkachuk’s 34 and 77. I like that, but my eyes follow the trend line. Jack's go the other way. As do Sam's, generally It's not that drastic, and he has been healthy which is good. Still, production has gone down 2 straight seasons. Edited May 16, 2021 by Thorny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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