What impact do you think replacing Krueger would have on this team in the short/medium term?

[Randall Flagg]

For the sake of being concrete, assume the new hire gets general approval from the fanbase, and doesn't come off like a Mickey Mouse hire (I heard Adam Mair as a suggestion recently, as an example of that). Gerard Gallant

I haven't decided how I feel quite yet. But if we let go of Ralph, I don't know how different things will feel from when we let go of Dan to bring in Phil, let go of Phil to bring in Ralph. I worry that we won't cross a meaningful threshold without something much bigger than a coach swap (which may also be necessary).

Sorry for the wordiness of the options, but I tried to cover the spectrum of potential opinions as best I could

[Scottysabres]

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

For the sake of being concrete, assume the new hire gets general approval from the fanbase, and doesn't come off like a Mickey Mouse hire (I heard Adam Mair as a suggestion recently, as an example of that). Gerard Gallant

I haven't decided how I feel quite yet. But if we let go of Ralph, I don't know how different things will feel from when we let go of Dan to bring in Phil, let go of Phil to bring in Ralph. I worry that we won't cross a meaningful threshold without something much bigger than a coach swap (which may also be necessary).

Sorry for the wordiness of the options, but I tried to cover the spectrum of potential opinions as best I could

We should hire the new coach as quickly as possible so they can "evaluate the suck-a-tude, errr, player playing styles." They can then go in to the next off season preparing to hire the appropriate asst. coaching personnel, setting a regiment to success plan and strategy implementation time frame, and last but not least, having the press box seat personalized with #53 on it.

[Flashsabre]

I would like to see them bring in Boudreau. Veteran successful NHL coach on a number of teams.  Is known for turning teams around and creating offence. Also from St. Catherine’s.

 

Lets see this team with a quality NHL coach that knows how to utilize players.  If the team turns it around, great.  If the results are similar then you know the core is rotten and it needs to be blown up.

[Pimlach]

I think we are somewhere in between the 2 and 3.   Get a coach like Gallant or Julien and we can push for playoffs in our old division.  
 

1. Coaching matters and it needs to be addressed immediately 

2. Leadership matters - some of the players that have known nothing but losing have to go - we have too many mental weaklings that quit on us and they need to go  

3. Talent matters - 2C, more top 6 help including size and toughness (including mental toughness), goaltending, a nasty sob on the blue line 

4.   Culture -  get players that are accountable and care, the coaches and players set the culture, not the other way around. There was nothing wrong with Buffalo Sabres culture when the team was founded.  
 

Ten years of flailing is obscene.  Just changing the coach may not be enough unless Adams proves to be a super executive, but it is obvious the coach we have is no longer an NHL head coach, if he ever was.   

[Thorny]

I was thinking heading in, after Adams’ offseason we’d most likely be a mid-high 80s, maybe 90 point team, but would not really have a great shot at a wild card, so I voted for the 3rd option. I think a reasonable coach has us around that spot (in a normal division) and combined with proper upgrades from Adams this offseason, we could have one more go at playoffs with Jack next season. 

[DarthEbriate]

I think if it's a real tried-and-true, respected NHL hockey coach (not a Rolston or an Appert or Matt Ellis) that the players know is there to evaluate them through the end of the season, we'll get a vast improvement in effort level and goal-scoring 5 on 5. And by vast I mean trending back toward average/middle-of-the-pack. That'd be great.

We won't see a dramatic change in the aggressiveness/hard-to-play/grit of this team. The players we've assembled are not those players. And the ones that are are either hurt, a 4C, or still recovering from the COVID virus.

Also, what we won't see are a spike in victories UNLESS we also get an NHL-caliber goalie to hold down the fort until Ullmark returns.

JJ has been destroyed by Ullmark's injuries and this season's taxi squad setup. He was coming around -- highly unlikely he was going to be an NHL starter, but an NHL backup potential. He got the AHL All-Star last year, then got called up when Ullmark was hurt. But the kid wasn't ready. He should've gone back down and had Hammond come up or gotten a rental goalie to close out the season because Hutton was so awful last year. Fast forward to this year, JJ wasn't ready, hasn't gotten additional playing time, languished on the practice squad, and still isn't ready. He and UPL should be battling in the AHL with Tokarski on the practice squad. Or Hutton in the AHL as a veteran for UPL. Regardless, Krueger is the main problem. But so is Hutton. A goalie must be part of the solution.

[LGR4GM]

I voted for 3 but I think coaching does have an impact so slightly disagree with it. 

[dudacek]

38 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I was thinking heading in, after Adams’ offseason we’d most likely be a mid-high 80s, maybe 90 point team, but would not really have a great shot at a wild card, so I voted for the 3rd option. I think a reasonable coach has us around that spot (in a normal division) and combined with proper upgrades from Adams this offseason, we could have one more go at playoffs with Jack next season. 

I was with you, but that was based on Skinner rebounding, Staal being good, Hall being Hall and Jack being Jack.

I'm not convinced that any of those things were going to happen this year any more, no matter the coach.

I hope the rest of the season gives each an opportunity to prove me wrong

[thewookie1]

I would imagine a seriously better looking team but still hampered by Ullmark, Borgen, and McCabe’s injuries. They’d at least be more interesting to watch.

[GASabresIUFAN]

It will be like a breath of fresh air in the locker room.  I think you'll see a looser more upbeat team.  

Also guys are playing for contracts.  

Hall, Staal, Rieder, Sheahan, Montour, McCabe, Ullmark, Hutton and even guys like Irwin and Davidson are all UFAs and all playing to increase their FA value or even to continue their careers.

Reinhart, Mitts, Dahlin, Jokiharju, Asplund, Johansson and Borgen are all RFAs trying to improve their next contracts and increase their leverage if possible.

That's 17 guys who are FAs and should be hungry to play better down the stretch (and when and if they return healthy).  

Still this team is fundamentally flawed.  I'd like to see mid 80's to 90 pts pace for the rest of the season but I'd settle for just being competitive most nights.

[Torpedo Forecheck]

I voted 4 because after watching this team all season the players have fallen into some terrible habits under RK. A good experienced NHL coach with the ability to work hand in hand with a GM and get what he needs could have an impact as soon as next year. But, it will take awhile and this season without practice it will be really tough. When I look at some of the teams doing well, they aren't so much more talented than the Sabres as better coached and constructed. I'm convinced some guys will have to go as well, but don't fool ourselves into thinking we need to completely clean house. Some of these guys will surprise you if given the right leadership.

Quote

 

 

[Norcal]

It depends on who it is.

I want to believe that a coach like Julien, Boudreau or Gallant can come in and win more than they lose right away and would command the players respect.

If it's someone like Appert, Adams or Player Development Coach #1, it would depend on the players buying in.

Maybe they get creative and bring in one of the veterans I mentioned as interim coach thru the end of the year? 

Gives the coaches an out in case Buffalo is the bad place its made out to be. 

Gives the owners a chance to bring in their President of Hockey Ops or Advisor who can evaluate the team through the end of the season.

The POHO, GMKA and the coach could then decide at the end of the year if it's a fit or not and what players should be added or subtracted etc. 

 

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I was with you, but that was based on Skinner rebounding, Staal being good, Hall being Hall and Jack being Jack.

I'm not convinced that any of those things were going to happen this year any more, no matter the coach.

I hope the rest of the season gives each an opportunity to prove me wrong

You’re right. To be a playoff team next year I think we need the upgrades at the places I mentioned, a new coach, *and* a return to form from those players. Hopefully the coach is a big part of that. 

[Torpedo Forecheck]

By the way, Great topic!

Improving the goaltending, adding some size and toughness and having a coach who demands the right things will go a long way ( not to mention utilizes his talent properly).

 

[Randall Flagg]

32 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I voted for 3 but I think coaching does have an impact so slightly disagree with it. 

Too many variables to isolate in a 1-dimensional spectrum for sure. SDS needs to start adding 2D polls! I getcha though

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

I was thinking heading in, after Adams’ offseason we’d most likely be a mid-high 80s, maybe 90 point team, but would not really have a great shot at a wild card, so I voted for the 3rd option. I think a reasonable coach has us around that spot (in a normal division) and combined with proper upgrades from Adams this offseason, we could have one more go at playoffs with Jack next season. 

If Gallant, Boudreau, or Julien got the offseason and training camp with this exact team, Eichel injury issues (and maybe more) included, how much better do you think we are right now?

[Randall Flagg]

21 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I was with you, but that was based on Skinner rebounding, Staal being good, Hall being Hall and Jack being Jack.

I'm not convinced that any of those things were going to happen this year any more, no matter the coach.

I hope the rest of the season gives each an opportunity to prove me wrong

This articulates why I felt compelled to make the poll, I'm looking for a little more pushback like PA was giving in another thread. I'm ready for Ralphie to go just because of how dire things have become but I wonder what the odds are that it makes incredibly little difference, and Boudreau just becomes the latest thing the Sabres touch that turns to poo

[Cal Naughton Jr]

I feel like we should have kept Disco Dan. I mean in hindsight. At the time I hated his whole family. But if he were the coach right now with this roster we’d be more than contending. I said what I said 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Cal Naughton Jr

[Thorny]

28 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Too many variables to isolate in a 1-dimensional spectrum for sure. SDS needs to start adding 2D polls! I getcha though

If Gallant, Boudreau, or Julien got the offseason and training camp with this exact team, Eichel injury issues (and maybe more) included, how much better do you think we are right now?

Well, coming into the season I wasn’t so down on the coach. So adding one of those guys pretty much gets me back to my original projection (which, honestly, we are an insane amount below so far) and perhaps a bit above. I think we’d be seeing better output from these guys in a cohesive system. 

But before the year I had them at 90 points - and that was expecting a top level top 6. So with a coach who gets the players to play like we thought they would? Ya I’d say about 90 (over 82)

Save Julien 

If Jack is truly banged up, we’d be below that. And scratch that, I’m forgetting Staal who I don’t think improves much with a better coach. So that’s another bump down 

If Jack’s hurt, this division, Staal being a letdown, low 80s. Jack healthy maybe mid-high 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Thorny

[Randall Flagg]

9 minutes ago, Cal Naughton Jr said:

I feel like we should have Disco Dan. I mean in hindsight. At the time I hated his whole family. But if he were the coach right now with this roster we’d be more than contending. I said what I said 

I think Dan is the best in a pool of coaches we've had since Ruff. His competition is Rolston, Nolan, Housley and Krueger. 

This says far more about Terry, Kim and the Sabres than it does about Dan

People positively compare the 2013-14, 2014-15 hockey quality to that we've seen this year. Not just the emotional appeal of the teams in an abstract, but the actual hockey quality. This is because the weight of past failures is heavier on this team than it was on that team, and time dulls all wounds. The mental place fans and the players were ACTUALLY in during the spring of 2017, and not our fond memories of that bleak time period (besides from the Blues and Jets games), well, there was no real path forward then, so no, we wouldn't be a contending hockey team with a different mediocre coach being kept on in the face of all of that rotten energy. A coach that hasn't gotten a HC job since and likely never will again 

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Well, coming into the season I wasn’t so down on the coach. So adding one of those guys pretty much gets me back to my original projection (which, honestly, we are an insane amount below so far) and perhaps a bit above. I think we’d be seeing better output from these guys in a cohesive system. 

But before the year I had them at 90 points - and that was expecting a top level top 6. So with a coach who gets the players to play like we thought they would? Ya I’d say about 90 (over 82)

Save Julien 

If Jack is truly banged up, we’d be below that. And scratch that, I’m forgetting Staal who I don’t think improves much with a better coach. So that’s another bump down 

So your answer is probably the mid 80s option then right? That's basically what I'm aiming for people to give here, if we had everything the same but a 'good' coach, what is the standings difference of this team

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Randall Flagg said:

I think Dan is the best in a pool of coaches we've had since Ruff. His competition is Rolston, Nolan, Housley and Krueger. 

This says far more about Terry, Kim and the Sabres than it does about Dan

People positively compare the 2013-14, 2014-15 hockey quality to that we've seen this year. Not just the emotional appeal of the teams in an abstract, but the actual hockey quality. This is because the weight of past failures is heavier on this team than it was on that team, and time dulls all wounds. The mental place fans and the players were ACTUALLY in during the spring of 2017, and not our fond memories of that bleak time period (besides from the Blues and Jets games), well, there was no real path forward then, so no, we wouldn't be a contending hockey team with a different mediocre coach being kept on in the face of all of that rotten energy. A coach that hasn't gotten a HC job since and likely never will again 

So your answer is probably the mid 80s option then right? That's basically what I'm aiming for people to give here, if we had everything the same but a 'good' coach, what is the standings difference of this team

Sorry I was thinking that through while posting. Finished up I think now lol 

[Thorny]

We are on pace for fifty three points over 82. That’s insane.

- - - 

Ya, Jack is a big wildcard. If he’s hurt, a good coach probably has us at a respectable in this division mid-high 70s pace over 82. That’s still a massive jump over Krueger. But we wouldn’t be sniffing mid-high 80s without him being very healthy. Only if his drop is solely due to giving up on Krueger, which would be kinda weird. 

Still not having a good 2nd offensive C hurts greatly. 

[Kruppstahl]

2 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

I would like to see them bring in Boudreau. Veteran successful NHL coach on a number of teams.  Is known for turning teams around and creating offence. Also from St. Catherine’s.

 

Lets see this team with a quality NHL coach that knows how to utilize players.  If the team turns it around, great.  If the results are similar then you know the core is rotten and it needs to be blown up.

Isolate the variables to solve the equation!  Absolutely.

And yet we have never really tried this route.

Bring in Boudreau and see what happens.

Let's pray the only reason why they haven't fired Ralph already is b/c they are working on getting Boudreau in here, and there have been some delays in that process.

 

[Marvin]

I keep thinking that, regardless of what we get as a replacement, there are a few things that have to happen by the end of the season:

1. Improved positional awareness for teammates and the opposition -- both in coverage and attack

2. No lollygagging on the way to the bench

3. Improved ensemble play -- particularly improved passing and communication

4. Greater tenacity in puck races and puck battles

5. On offence, people get to the slot and other dirty areas.

6. On defence, no one is uncovered in or near the slot.  Ever.

7. Less passive mindset.

Drat it, is that a lot.  And this is all basic stuff after skating, stickhandling, and shooting.

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

I keep thinking that, regardless of what we get as a replacement, there are a few things that have to happen by the end of the season:

1. Improved positional awareness for teammates and the opposition -- both in coverage and attack

2. No lollygagging on the way to the bench

3. Improved ensemble play -- particularly improved passing and communication

4. Greater tenacity in puck races and puck battles

5. On offence, people get to the slot and other dirty areas.

6. On defence, no one is uncovered in or near the slot.  Ever.

7. Less passive mindset.

Drat it, is that a lot.  And this is all basic stuff after skating, stickhandling, and shooting.

I love this outline. It takes a step up from vague comments about systems. Someone should hit the film and show us where Ralph fails in these areas and compare them to a new coach, if we get one.

[Andrew Amerk]

1 hour ago, Kruppstahl said:

Isolate the variables to solve the equation!  Absolutely.

And yet we have never really tried this route.

Bring in Boudreau and see what happens.

Let's pray the only reason why they haven't fired Ralph already is b/c they are working on getting Boudreau in here, and there have been some delays in that process.

 

This is inexcusable. Ralph should’ve been gone at least one weekend ago. Granato can be interim while they hire someone else. Just get RK away from this team already.