Who is the better hockey player: Skinner or Reinhart

[PerreaultForever]

I think they're really equal. As Weave said, "similar but different". Both have some serious skills but both have some flaws and weaknesses. 

tbh I'm not real fond of either one, but they are the high skilled players we have so I simply hope they give it their all with this new pumped up line up and we get back to some entertaining (and winning) hockey. If EITHER has a dog season with Hall and Eichel in this line up...............well, there's no good excuse. 

[carpandean]

Sam is better in almost every aspect of the game, but Jeff is (usually) better in one very valuable and hard to find area.  Sam is a very good generalist, while Jeff is a very good specialist.  That gives Sam a lot more ways to shine, keeping him from having a bad season, while Jeff pretty much scores goals or sucks (perception-wise.)

 

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, carpandean said:

Sam is better in almost every aspect of the game, but Jeff is (usually) better in one very valuable and hard to find area.  Sam is a very good generalist, while Jeff is a very good specialist.  That gives Sam a lot more ways to shine, keeping him from having a bad season, while Jeff pretty much scores goals or sucks (perception-wise.)

 

Skating is a valuable & hard to find area?  Hmmm, can't be that.

Stealing pucks moving out of the defensive zone is both valuable & hard to find, but it is only effective once or twice per game & then still doesn't result in many goals.  So, that's probably not it either.

😆 

Yes. Skinner has the better shot.

Who is better overall, the edge goes to Reinhart.  But in the last minute, down by a goal, my expectation is Skinner might deliver; not expecting it from Sam.  Though, up a goal, am fine w/ Reinhart out there (though he's not a 1st choice) but don't want Jeff even near the ice.  So, the situation should factor in as well.  And, if the business side of the game is considered; Reinhart is more cost effective by a ridiculously large margin.

[pi2000]

Skinner is the better all-around player and will always be the better player.

To the Reinhart apologists, what is it that Reinhart does so much better than Skinner that makes him the better player?     

And I need more than "he just does more things better"... I need specifics.   For example, Skinner is elite on his edges, elite finish ability, he's tenacious on the forecheck, is a pest that get's under the oppositions' skin.     

What elite abilities does Sam have?  

[Thorny]

20 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Skinner is the better all-around player and will always be the better player.

To the Reinhart apologists, what is it that Reinhart does so much better than Skinner that makes him the better player?     

And I need more than "he just does more things better"... I need specifics.   For example, Skinner is elite on his edges, elite finish ability, he's tenacious on the forecheck, is a pest that get's under the oppositions' skin.     

What elite abilities does Sam have?  

He puts up more points. 

Each of the last 3 seasons. 

IMO you are too focused on defining raw talent and attributes. Better suited to Marvel cards that have "Strength", "Speed", "Magic" ratings on the back. I'm dealing in Hockey cards. Those have playing stats on the back and Sam's are better than Jeff's. 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Thorny

[Andrew Amerk]

Do you eat mashed potatoes with a spoon or a fork?

[Weave]

14 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Do you eat mashed potatoes with a spoon or a fork?

Pfffft.  Finger food.

[Andrew Amerk]

4 minutes ago, Weave said:

Pfffft.  Finger food.

 

[pi2000]

13 hours ago, Thorny said:

He puts up more points. 

Each of the last 3 seasons. 

IMO you are too focused on defining raw talent and attributes. Better suited to Marvel cards that have "Strength", "Speed", "Magic" ratings on the back. I'm dealing in Hockey cards. Those have playing stats on the back and Sam's are better than Jeff's. 

You're mistaken, the thread asked "who is the better hockey player"... Not "who put up more points" .

There's more to be being a good hockey player than just putting up points.   

That said, I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me specifically what makes Sam an elite hockey player.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

6 hours ago, pi2000 said:

You're mistaken, the thread asked "who is the better hockey player"... Not "who put up more points" .

There's more to be being a good hockey player than just putting up points.   

That said, I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me specifically what makes Sam an elite hockey player.

Jack.

[LGR4GM]

7 hours ago, pi2000 said:

You're mistaken, the thread asked "who is the better hockey player"... Not "who put up more points" .

There's more to be being a good hockey player than just putting up points.   

That said, I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me specifically what makes Sam an elite hockey player.

What are skinners other than skating? 

Sam has elite positioning and elite vision. His passing is phenomenal. His shot is severely underrated around here. 

[7+6=13]

Skinner is an excellent player (as is Reino) and IMO was the most effected by the inept roster last year.  In turn he'll be the one that benefits the most from the additions.  

IMO, they bring totally different things and if we can make a forward work well with Jack and Hall would thrive on the same line with Staal.  

[Zamboni]

I refuse to except the results of the poll! So now I want to move the goalposts until the majority agree with me! 😂

[pi2000]

12 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

What are skinners other than skating? 

Sam has elite positioning and elite vision. His passing is phenomenal. His shot is severely underrated around here. 

Skinner has elite+ finish ability around the net, he's also an elite forechecker creating lots of turnovers, elite pest.

I keep hearing about Sam's elite vision and passing, yet he's averaged <30a per season thus far in his career.   

Underwhelming, especially when you consider his linemates.    

[Curt]

On 11/4/2020 at 3:31 AM, pi2000 said:

That said, I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me specifically what makes Sam an elite hockey player.

Does anyone actually think that Sam is an elite hockey player?  I think you are tilting at windmills here.

[nfreeman]

9 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Skinner has elite+ finish ability around the net, he's also an elite forechecker creating lots of turnovers, elite pest.

I keep hearing about Sam's elite vision and passing, yet he's averaged <30a per season thus far in his career.   

Underwhelming, especially when you consider his linemates.    

I agree with much of this, including the misuse of "elite" as regards Reino. 

However, I don't think Reino will ever have a season as poor as the season Skinner just had -- and while much of that was due to lousy linemates, much of it was on Skinner, who got frustrated and PO'd and stopped trying.

Reino is steadier and less of a diva than Skinner is.  As I've said previously, Reino's ceiling is lower but his floor his higher.

[LGR4GM]

9 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Skinner has elite+ finish ability around the net, he's also an elite forechecker creating lots of turnovers, elite pest.

I keep hearing about Sam's elite vision and passing, yet he's averaged <30a per season thus far in his career.   

Underwhelming, especially when you consider his linemates.    

Skinner scored how many goals last season? For someone with supposed elite finish ability he sure sucked at it. Elite pest? lol, what a strange made up type of thing. 

Skinner and Reinhart are different types of players. I wouldn't call either elite even though they might have a couple elite qualities.

The bolded is some brilliant fake math. I'd guess you used his 9 games in his not even first year. Further you don't account for his 33 assist pace from this past season. On top of all that in the last 4 years, Reinhart has topped 30 assists all but 1 time including a 43 assist campaign when Skinner (the elite finisher around the net) was on his line and yet you cling to your sad tired arguments. It's okay, we are all wrong sometimes but at least some of us admit it. 

[freester]

Recent article in the Athletic rated Skinner's contract 3rd worst in the league behind only Drew Doughty and Marc Edourd Vlasic.  Lets hope some better linemates will have Skinner having a much better season.

[dudacek]

It's a cap league people, all about delivering value for the contract. Since Skinner arrived in Buffalo:

Jeff Skinner: $15.7

• 3.4 goals per $1 million cap hit
• 5.5 points per $1 million
• 9 games played per $1 million

Sam Reinhart: $7.3

• 6 goals per $1 million
• 15.8 points per $1 million
• 20.7 games played per $1 million

In terms of showing up and providing bang for the buck, Reinhart is definitely elite compared to Skinner.

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Skinner scored how many goals last season? For someone with supposed elite finish ability he sure sucked at it. Elite pest? lol, what a strange made up type of thing. 

Skinner and Reinhart are different types of players. I wouldn't call either elite even though they might have a couple elite qualities.

The bolded is some brilliant fake math. I'd guess you used his 9 games in his not even first year. Further you don't account for his 33 assist pace from this past season. On top of all that in the last 4 years, Reinhart has topped 30 assists all but 1 time including a 43 assist campaign when Skinner (the elite finisher around the net) was on his line and yet you cling to your sad tired arguments. It's okay, we are all wrong sometimes but at least some of us admit it. 

@pi2000 -- any response to the bolded?  If Liger is right, you are 100% guilty of #hammymath, which is emphatically not the right way anyone should be arguing around here.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Skinner scored how many goals last season? For someone with supposed elite finish ability he sure sucked at it. Elite pest? lol, what a strange made up type of thing. 

Skinner and Reinhart are different types of players. I wouldn't call either elite even though they might have a couple elite qualities.

The bolded is some brilliant fake math. I'd guess you used his 9 games in his not even first year. Further you don't account for his 33 assist pace from this past season. On top of all that in the last 4 years, Reinhart has topped 30 assists all but 1 time including a 43 assist campaign when Skinner (the elite finisher around the net) was on his line and yet you cling to your sad tired arguments. It's okay, we are all wrong sometimes but at least some of us admit it. 

I agree with most of this post, but the bolded is wrong.

Over the past decade, Skinner has led the NHL in penalties drawn.

https://www.icydata.hockey/vizzes/penalties-dashboard/7

[Thorny]

3 hours ago, Curt said:

Does anyone actually think that Sam is an elite hockey player?  I think you are tilting at windmills here.

 

2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I agree with much of this, including the misuse of "elite" as regards Reino. 

However, I don't think Reino will ever have a season as poor as the season Skinner just had -- and while much of that was due to lousy linemates, much of it was on Skinner, who got frustrated and PO'd and stopped trying.

Reino is steadier and less of a diva than Skinner is.  As I've said previously, Reino's ceiling is lower but his floor his higher.

Right, is anyone arguing he's an elite hockey player? He's a demonstrably very good hockey player. He does a lot of things very well. He's not an exceptional player with exceptional stand-out skills, he's a very good, very well rounded player. 

He plays every game, he produces first line numbers consistently, and the metrics show he pushes play. If you are waiting to hear about what he does in an elite way, you are waiting on a straw-man argument. 

[pi2000]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Skinner scored how many goals last season? For someone with supposed elite finish ability he sure sucked at it. Elite pest? lol, what a strange made up type of thing. 

Skinner and Reinhart are different types of players. I wouldn't call either elite even though they might have a couple elite qualities.

Yes, elite pest, he get's under the skin of other players and is a disruptive force... as someone who's played the game, this is a valuable underrated trait when it comes to building out a roster.    It might be a bit of a stretch but it's an elite metric when compared to your "elite positioning" skill which apparently Sam possesses lol.

I agree they are different types of players.... I just think overall, in a vacuum, Skinner is the better hockey player in today's game... mostly because of his ELITE+ skating.  

 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

 

Right, is anyone arguing he's an elite hockey player? He's a demonstrably very good hockey player. He does a lot of things very well. He's not an exceptional player with exceptional stand-out skills, he's a very good, very well rounded player. 

He plays every game, he produces first line numbers consistently, and the metrics show he pushes play. If you are waiting to hear about what he does in an elite way, you are waiting on a straw-man argument. 

Your response is the best encapsulation of Reinhart and his game in this thread. It is fair, accurate and concisely stated. Not much can be added to it because it addresses the issue and says all that there needs to be said about the topic.  

[pi2000]

5 hours ago, nfreeman said:

@pi2000 -- any response to the bolded?  If Liger is right, you are 100% guilty of #hammymath, which is emphatically not the right way anyone should be arguing around here.

Hammymath Matters!

Seriously tho... No, I did not count the 1 assist in 9 game season...   I took the mean of the previous 5 seasons.    

Let me put it this way, in 400 career NHL games he has 146 assists, or 0.365 assists/gm... which comes out to 29.93 assists per 82 game season... so I stand corrected... he averages <30 assists per full season, NOT <29 assists per full season. 

Over the past 5 seasons he ranks 68th in the league in assists by forwards.... 87th when considering at ALL skaters.     All of this while playing with a top 5 center, 

Elite vision and passing?   hmmmmmmm    

What's interesting is that Sam's best season (43a) came when he was playing with Skinner who had 40 tucks.     I'd argue Skinner's elite skating and finish ability inflated Reinharts' assist total that season..  so who's the better hockey player?