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Jays to play in Buffalo?

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On 7/12/2020 at 7:06 PM, Let's Go B-Lo said:

Buffalo is glad it didn't or doesn't have an MLB team. Picture the Pirates only worse. No money to actually be good and lose every good player you ever have to the Yankees. 

No thanks.

Agreed.  Buffalo corporate dollars are already scraping by to support two of the big four.  The economics of baseball with a soft salary cap would kick the hell out of the profitability of a MLB team in WNY.  It'd likely force even a rich owner to downgrade payrolls and strap competitiveness.  Dodgers, Cubs, Yankees, and Red Sox all spent north of $200M last year.  These teams are major corporations supported by major corporations.  The Bills only spent $158M AAV in 2019.  It's highly unlikely that we could field a competitive MLB team that at least breaks even in profit.

The silver lining - not to be overlooked - is that we have the best and biggest stadium in MiLB located in the heart of our downtown, field a competitive team (when our affiliate isn't hot trash, cough, Mets, cough), have dirt cheap tickets that make going to games extremely family friendly (as opposed to MLB-mandated ticket prices), good local food at concession stands, make a sustainable profit, and still have money left over for fireworks*.

Minor league dirt piles are old-timey romantic fun, but Pilot Downtown North AmeriCare Dunn Tire Coca-Cola Sahlen Field is a true gem for sports spectatorship.  Its architecture started the now continent-wide trend of modern retro-classic stadiums.

 

*Story time: I will never, ever forget seeing a walk-off grand slam whose celebration went straight to fireworks (because Friday Night Bash).  Simply awesome.

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11 hours ago, IKnowPhysics said:

Agreed.  Buffalo corporate dollars are already scraping by to support two of the big four.  The economics of baseball with a soft salary cap would kick the hell out of the profitability of a MLB team in WNY.  It'd likely force even a rich owner to downgrade payrolls and strap competitiveness.  Dodgers, Cubs, Yankees, and Red Sox all spent north of $200M last year.  These teams are major corporations supported by major corporations.  The Bills only spent $158M AAV in 2019.  It's highly unlikely that we could field a competitive MLB team that at least breaks even in profit.

The silver lining - not to be overlooked - is that we have the best and biggest stadium in MiLB located in the heart of our downtown, field a competitive team (when our affiliate isn't hot trash, cough, Mets, cough), have dirt cheap tickets that make going to games extremely family friendly (as opposed to MLB-mandated ticket prices), good local food at concession stands, make a sustainable profit, and still have money left over for fireworks*.

Minor league dirt piles are old-timey romantic fun, but Pilot Downtown North AmeriCare Dunn Tire Coca-Cola Sahlen Field is a true gem for sports spectatorship.  Its architecture started the now continent-wide trend of modern retro-classic stadiums.

 

*Story time: I will never, ever forget seeing a walk-off grand slam whose celebration went straight to fireworks (because Friday Night Bash).  Simply awesome.

I agree with most of what you said but I don't find Pilot Field to be in the retro-classic style. In fact it reminds me a lot of new Comiskey Park which also is from that era just before Camden Yards opened in Baltimore and was designed by the same firm. Uniform dimensions, uniform wall heights (protective netting notwithstanding) there isn't anything particularly special about Pilot Field as a stadium goes.  There isn't anything about it that particularly evokes Buffalo. There isn't any architecture woven into the stadium, it has a view overlooking a parking deck, an on ramp, and a freeway.  I understand that baseball stadiums need to be oriented in specific ways because of the sun and the piece of land they chose doesn't have a view of anything in the direction the field has to face. Pick a different piece of land. It's not like downtown Buffalo didn't have tons of places to build something in 1985. If you mentally remove the roof and add an upper deck above the mezzanine as was intended it looks like new Comiskey originally looked even more. If they had the chance to build that again even five years after it opened it would have been very different I think and new Comiskey had been the same way in that they have tried to do several things to change the way the ballpark is because is specially wasn't like the Camden Yards style ballparks. Pilot Field was certainly needed and it was a revelation compared to the heap they played in before that but if you told any design student to draw a generic baseball only stadium that is what you would have gotten in 1985ish. The choice to put it downtown was smart but that was the City and Jimmy Griffin, not the designers and the site they picked in Downtown was mediocre. Camden Yards was the game changer and ballparks have gotten much better for it. 

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It would be really cool if they played here. I hope it happens. 

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On 7/17/2020 at 12:08 PM, IKnowPhysics said:

Agreed.  Buffalo corporate dollars are already scraping by to support two of the big four.  The economics of baseball with a soft salary cap would kick the hell out of the profitability of a MLB team in WNY.  It'd likely force even a rich owner to downgrade payrolls and strap competitiveness.  Dodgers, Cubs, Yankees, and Red Sox all spent north of $200M last year.  These teams are major corporations supported by major corporations.  The Bills only spent $158M AAV in 2019.  It's highly unlikely that we could field a competitive MLB team that at least breaks even in profit.

The silver lining - not to be overlooked - is that we have the best and biggest stadium in MiLB located in the heart of our downtown, field a competitive team (when our affiliate isn't hot trash, cough, Mets, cough), have dirt cheap tickets that make going to games extremely family friendly (as opposed to MLB-mandated ticket prices), good local food at concession stands, make a sustainable profit, and still have money left over for fireworks*.

Minor league dirt piles are old-timey romantic fun, but Pilot Downtown North AmeriCare Dunn Tire Coca-Cola Sahlen Field is a true gem for sports spectatorship.  Its architecture started the now continent-wide trend of modern retro-classic stadiums.

 

*Story time: I will never, ever forget seeing a walk-off grand slam whose celebration went straight to fireworks (because Friday Night Bash).  Simply awesome.


If the stadium is so great, why are the Jays saying it’s inadequate for MLB night games?

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On 7/13/2020 at 8:21 PM, Taro T said:

The BASEBALL stadium.  We're talking Offerman.  If it was still around then the Expos would've been in Buffalo.  Nobody was putting a Major League team in the Rockpile.

And the Expos didn't have an MLB stadium at first, and the Rockpile was a much bigger venue than Jarry Park.  Offerman wouldn't have fit the bill.  It had a capacity of only 14,000.

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Interesting side thought:  If the MLB had demanded a dome of Buffalo, would the Nameless Wonder in Orchard Park have been built as a domed, dual-use stadium?

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49 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Dunedin’s Pinellas county was hard hit this past week.

 

• As of 11:00 a.m., July 16th, there are 315,775 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the State of Florida with 19,825 hospitalizations and 4,782 deaths. In Pinellas County, the number of confirmed cases rose from 9,826 confirmed cases of COVID-19 last week to 12,368 cases this week, with 1,059 hospitalizations and 295 deaths, increases of 226 and 74, respectively. The number of positive cases in the Dunedin area increased from 236 to 301.

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11 minutes ago, gilbert11 said:

Dunedin’s Pinellas county was hard hit this past week.

 

• As of 11:00 a.m., July 16th, there are 315,775 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the State of Florida with 19,825 hospitalizations and 4,782 deaths. In Pinellas County, the number of confirmed cases rose from 9,826 confirmed cases of COVID-19 last week to 12,368 cases this week, with 1,059 hospitalizations and 295 deaths, increases of 226 and 74, respectively. The number of positive cases in the Dunedin area increased from 236 to 301.

 

And yet the Jays are STILL considering Dunedin. Buffalo is their last resort apparently.

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12 minutes ago, gilbert11 said:

Dunedin’s Pinellas county was hard hit this past week.

 

• As of 11:00 a.m., July 16th, there are 315,775 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the State of Florida with 19,825 hospitalizations and 4,782 deaths. In Pinellas County, the number of confirmed cases rose from 9,826 confirmed cases of COVID-19 last week to 12,368 cases this week, with 1,059 hospitalizations and 295 deaths, increases of 226 and 74, respectively. The number of positive cases in the Dunedin area increased from 236 to 301.

The Jays also start on the road at Tampa, don't they?

I'm not so sure I want them here.

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

And yet the Jays are STILL considering Dunedin. Buffalo is their last resort apparently.

Good.  Stay in Dunedin.

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3 minutes ago, Eleven said:

The Jays also start on the road at Tampa, don't they?

I'm not so sure I want them here.

Good.  Stay in Dunedin.

Yes, they’re on the road the first week.  As the official statement said, once they leave, they’re not going back to Canada until after the season.

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18 minutes ago, gilbert11 said:

Yes, they’re on the road the first week.  As the official statement said, once they leave, they’re not going back to Canada until after the season.

I don't care if they go back to Canada, but I don't want them here.  The economic impact and "cool factor" that they might have is not worth damaging all of the hard work we've done here.

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6 hours ago, gilbert11 said:

If the stadium is so great, why are the Jays saying it’s inadequate for MLB night games?

From TBN:

"The Blue Jays are still trying to determine if major systems work needed for Sahlen Field such as lighting and control rooms for instant replay could be taken care of in the short window remaining before the schedule begins.

Sources say the Bisons' parent club also has concerns about areas that include social distancing in the clubhouses, workout rooms and batting cages, repairs needed to bullpen phones and the fact the pens are in foul territory down the lines and not behind the outfield fence."

Because I believe a great stadium for a great day at the park has absolutely nothing to do with any of the Jays' functional concerns.

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3 hours ago, IKnowPhysics said:

From TBN:

"The Blue Jays are still trying to determine if major systems work needed for Sahlen Field such as lighting and control rooms for instant replay could be taken care of in the short window remaining before the schedule begins.

Sources say the Bisons' parent club also has concerns about areas that include social distancing in the clubhouses, workout rooms and batting cages, repairs needed to bullpen phones and the fact the pens are in foul territory down the lines and not behind the outfield fence."

Because I believe a great stadium for a great day at the park has absolutely nothing to do with any of the Jays' functional concerns.

I've been to that park and a few other minor league parks and a few major league ones. And one thing I'll say is I have an extreme and visceral hatred for bullpens that are on the field of play. ***** hate 'em! It's just injuries waiting to happen. Even Wrigley Field did away with them.

But I'd still pick Buffalo in summer time over Florida any time. That's a no brainier. 

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I have a renewed interest in baseball over the last few years, but I could not care less if the Jays decided to come here for the season.  If you can’t attend the games, go play them in the middle of Montana instead. 
 

 

So they would use a hotel for a couple months.  Big deal.  Other than that they are going to be quarantined.  No local businesses will benefit from a bunch of millionaires being here for a short time. 

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10 hours ago, Eleven said:

The Jays also start on the road at Tampa, don't they?

I'm not so sure I want them here.

Good.  Stay in Dunedin.

Amen.  I don't want people with no loyalty to the area to turn the area into a coronavirus hot spot or a political football.

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19 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Interesting side thought:  If the MLB had demanded a dome of Buffalo, would the Nameless Wonder in Orchard Park have been built as a domed, dual-use stadium?

The Lancaster Dome would have been built a la the Astrodome and both teams would have been gone by the early 2000's when the community refused to build 2 new stadiums.  A big part of what helped the community keep the Bills was the flexibility of the footprint at RWS to make changes and that it was football only.  All those multi-purpose stadiums built in the 70's were terrible for all the sports they played in them and they have all been replaced.  NOT building that dome was one of the biggest blessings the city ever got.

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8 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

So they would use a hotel for a couple months.  Big deal.  Other than that they are going to be quarantined.  No local businesses will benefit from a bunch of millionaires being here for a short time. 

That's 29 days of NY income taxes from 50ish millionaires going into the coffers.  That's not insignificant.  They'd use a hotel and so would the team coming in to play, that's occupancy for the hotel and hotel tax into the county coffers as well.  It's also work for the groundskeepers, a contract for a lighting company to replace the lights, local people to complete the project, it's work for the stadium people to clean and sanitize the stadium 29+ times, it's a contract with a bus company to shuttle teams around and work for some drivers, everyone will eat and drink while they are here so it is money for at least one restaurant to feed people and work for their staff and tips for the people who deliver the food.

Is it a massive benefit?  No.  Is it better to take some money rather than none right now?  Yup.

If I were a player I'd be lobbying hard for Dunedin because of the tax benefit. The big hang up down there is the weather.  It's hot as hell and it rains an awful lot in the evenings which is why both Florida teams play indoors.  That's not good in a compressed schedule with few off days.  It's a rare occasion that Buffalo's weather plays in its favor.

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13 hours ago, IKnowPhysics said:

From TBN:

"The Blue Jays are still trying to determine if major systems work needed for Sahlen Field such as lighting and control rooms for instant replay could be taken care of in the short window remaining before the schedule begins.

Sources say the Bisons' parent club also has concerns about areas that include social distancing in the clubhouses, workout rooms and batting cages, repairs needed to bullpen phones and the fact the pens are in foul territory down the lines and not behind the outfield fence."

Because I believe a great stadium for a great day at the park has absolutely nothing to do with any of the Jays' functional concerns.

It's not that those things can't be done or be done quickly, it's that the Jays don't want to pay for it.  You're telling me a bullpen can't be built in a week behind the OF wall with a phone run to it?  You're telling me a temporary video replay room can't be created in a week in a stadium with no fans in attendance? You have your choice of luxury boxes and you don't even have to hide the wires!  Dunedin has to change it lights too so that's a non-issue. Please. This is what is always is, a shakedown of local governments by a sports franchise. If the city is expected to pay for any of this the economic benefit quickly comes to zero and they can go pound sand.  If they want to pay for whatever upgrades they want then fine. Go for it.

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4 hours ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

That's 29 days of NY income taxes from 50ish millionaires going into the coffers.  That's not insignificant.  They'd use a hotel and so would the team coming in to play, that's occupancy for the hotel and hotel tax into the county coffers as well.  It's also work for the groundskeepers, a contract for a lighting company to replace the lights, local people to complete the project, it's work for the stadium people to clean and sanitize the stadium 29+ times, it's a contract with a bus company to shuttle teams around and work for some drivers, everyone will eat and drink while they are here so it is money for at least one restaurant to feed people and work for their staff and tips for the people who deliver the food.

They won't be going to restaurants, and even if they were, that, plus the rest of it, isn't worth the risk.  We put in some serious work in NYS and I don't need out-of-towners screwing it up.

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16 minutes ago, Eleven said:

They won't be going to restaurants, and even if they were, that, plus the rest of it, isn't worth the risk.  We put in some serious work in NYS and I don't need out-of-towners screwing it up.

It's not that they will be going into restaurants, someone will be tasked with providing food for the teams. and the teams are going to be pretty specific about what they want and the quality they will accept.  Whether that's the restaurant staff in the hotel or a catering company or another restaurant who does catering. Someone will be preparing and serving that food and people will be paid to handle, transport and prepare that food and taxes will be paid on that food at every juncture.

There really isn't a way to prevent out of town people from coming.  14 flights landed in Buffalo today.  Presumably they weren't empty.  I am out of state, there is nothing preventing me from hopping in my car right now and driving up.  In fact, the thought has crossed my mind several times with the amount of free time and hankering for wings I currently have.  I was in 5 different states yesterday and I will be in 3 different states tomorrow.  I'm fully masked and socially distanced and following all rules and guidelines, but I'm still going to be there.  When school starts back up I have to cross a border every day to get there.

The full traveling entourage of a baseball team is under 100 people and it's probably closer to 50.  50 people in town, who are specifically going to be kept segregated from everyone else for their own protection, aren't going to have an impact.  The problems are happening with people going out and mingling in close quarters in bars and the like.  Players won't be doing any of that.

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It appears the Blue Jays are looking at other MLB Stadiums to play in, PNC Park in Pittsburgh is one such site 

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1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

It appears the Blue Jays are looking at other MLB Stadiums to play in, PNC Park in Pittsburgh is one such site 

Shocking. But, it makes sense for them to be playing in another MLB stadium while the “home” team is away. 

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11 hours ago, Brawndo said:

It appears the Blue Jays are looking at other MLB Stadiums to play in, PNC Park in Pittsburgh is one such site 

They haven't played Major League Baseball in Pittsburgh in a long time.

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