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Kim Pegula returning next season- Kim Pegula

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14 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Criticized for the on-ice product? I don't see much of that. That is saved for JB and to a lesser extent, Terry. Kim gets it for marketing/arena experience and the like.

Unless Kim is president of football operations at the Bills, I didn't get it wrong.

Well, the focus of the criticism is for sure on JBott, and deservedly so. But when ownership is criticized, Kim's getting criticized. That's how I see it. I tend to believe the theory that the Pegulas effectively forced the O'Reilly trade. That's on Terry and Kim.

The Bills don't have a president of football operations. So, to say that Kim doesn't occupy an office that doesn't exist is a bit of nonsense. I'm not sure that the Bills have ever had a president of football ops? At least from a titular standpoint. They did have Donahoe, a football guy, as the team president. But the president for the most part was Ralph - owner and president (and maybe some other titles too). Maybe Marv got a football ops title when he was here as a GM? 

Anyway, the Bills have a president right now, Kim Pegula.  

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9 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

OSP also saw the Sabres more than double in value in the eight years he owned them. The piddling few million dollars of profit or loss on a year to year basis don't mean all that much.

...

The way I see it, with LQ and DiPofi on his side, the team would have been miles better on and off the ice, and the bottom line would have remained solid/OK/acceptable. And, yes, Darcy would still be GM.

The first point is fair.

The second item there is utter speculation, of course. I mean, maybe they'd be miles better? It'd be hard to be worse, that's for sure.

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I'll reiterate my stance that this site has consistently been over-run by the few, and provides little value, because it has inevitably become a place of condemnation rather than one for discussion or enlightenment.

It's the reason I unsuccessfully asked a few years ago to have my account deactivated, because the discourse here quickly leans toward the toxic, with a prevailing few bullying the narrative into shape.

I'll agree that I made an honest mistake in citing Forbes as the Sabres listed as having $1.9 million in operating profit in 2018-19, as opposed to "revenue."

That said, to conflate these into "whoppers" as alleged by the original poster is but another example of how the supposed discourse here is narrowed and twisted into a few people's point of view, and anyone questioning it is dismissed.

There appears to be no place for contrarian or alternate views, and unlike at TwoBillDrive, where there is healthy discourse, little oversight in how posters are disparaged.

Good luck and I hope you all continue enjoying your circle-jerk exercise.

 

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2 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

Good luck and I hope you all continue enjoying your circle-jerk exercise.

I say this as someone who would/could otherwise be an ally, @john wawrow: Sod right off with that bullsh1t. 

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32 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

I'll reiterate my stance that this site has consistently been over-run by the few, and provides little value, because it has inevitably become a place of condemnation rather than one for discussion or enlightenment.

It's the reason I unsuccessfully asked a few years ago to have my account deactivated, because the discourse here quickly leans toward the toxic, with a prevailing few bullying the narrative into shape.

I'll agree that I made an honest mistake in citing Forbes as the Sabres listed as having $1.9 million in operating profit in 2018-19, as opposed to "revenue."

That said, to conflate these into "whoppers" as alleged by the original poster is but another example of how the supposed discourse here is narrowed and twisted into a few people's point of view, and anyone questioning it is dismissed.

There appears to be no place for contrarian or alternate views, and unlike at TwoBillDrive, where there is healthy discourse, little oversight in how posters are disparaged.

Good luck and I hope you all continue enjoying your circle-jerk exercise.

 


This was your first post in 3 months. That really added some value.

You could have just said,”Yes, I read the no move clause” or, “no, I did not read the no move clause, but I talked to enough people that I trust to believe it is there.”

Great visit. Stop by anytime.

Edited by SwampD

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Fwiw I dont hold up TBD as any kind of gold standard of discourse and it certainly wasn't any more positive when the Bills were at the depths of their futility.

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I wonder where Darcy is these days. Potato farming in Montana? Running a yoga studio in Regina?
He sure quietly slid out the backdoor of the NHL.

Hope he’s writing a book.

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2 hours ago, john wawrow said:

I'll reiterate my stance that this site has consistently been over-run by the few, and provides little value, because it has inevitably become a place of condemnation rather than one for discussion or enlightenment.

It's the reason I unsuccessfully asked a few years ago to have my account deactivated, because the discourse here quickly leans toward the toxic, with a prevailing few bullying the narrative into shape.

I'll agree that I made an honest mistake in citing Forbes as the Sabres listed as having $1.9 million in operating profit in 2018-19, as opposed to "revenue."

That said, to conflate these into "whoppers" as alleged by the original poster is but another example of how the supposed discourse here is narrowed and twisted into a few people's point of view, and anyone questioning it is dismissed.

There appears to be no place for contrarian or alternate views, and unlike at TwoBillDrive, where there is healthy discourse, little oversight in how posters are disparaged.

Good luck and I hope you all continue enjoying your circle-jerk exercise.

 

I generally enjoy and respect your professional output, but this is a “whopper”

I can see how ongoing disagreements and “agendas” can become tedious, but having PA, or anyone else dismiss your contributions hardly counts as a circle jerk, or a lack of discourse on the forum.

Sometimes you get what you bring.

Edited by dudacek
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John, Hammy, Harrington, the late great Bucky and Jerry, and maybe even younger dudes like Vogl and Hoppe, come directly from, or grew up in, an era where the fans were like children: meant to be seen and not heard. Any speaking truth to power is just not tolerated very well. Even Hoppe's foray into SS, which IIRC was mainly about getting us to click on his links, ended badly after the slightest bit of pushback.

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51 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

Fwiw I dont hold up TBD as any kind of gold standard of discourse and it certainly wasn't any more positive when the Bills were at the depths of their futility.

Fair feckin' point. I used to dabble over there, but I burned out and tuned out. I think it's maybe more of a volumetric issue than anything - there's so much content. There are many terrific posters, for sure, and, of course, there are a bunch of freaks and idiots as well. 

My guess is that the membership at TBD is just a scaled-up version of what we have here, if that makes sense. The idea that TBD is better or more civil than this place is, to borrow a Lindyism, A JOKE.

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3 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Any speaking truth to power is just not tolerated very well. Even Hoppe's foray into SS, which IIRC was mainly about getting us to click on his links, ended badly after the slightest bit of pushback.

I'm not sure "truth to power" is the right adage there, but I agree with the spirit of what you're saying.

Like I said in a direct message to you: As a group, local sports writers have to be the thinnest skinned jabronis around.

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2 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Fair feckin' point. I used to dabble over there, but I burned out and tuned out. I think it's maybe more of a volumetric issue than anything - there's so much content. There are many terrific posters, for sure, and, of course, there are a bunch of freaks and idiots as well. 

My guess is that the membership at TBD is just a scaled-up version of what we have here, if that makes sense. The idea that TBD is better or more civil than this place is, to borrow a Lindyism, A JOKE.

I was thinking the same exact thing in terms of TBD being something like this board x50 or 100.  That said, the quality of discussion around this place has degraded heavily over recent years.  I blame that almost completely on the team.

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3 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

The first point is fair.

The second item there is utter speculation, of course. I mean, maybe they'd be miles better? It'd be hard to be worse, that's for sure.

True, but apparently a couple of Darcy's best moves were Larry Quinn's suggestion.  (The Drury acquisition was one.)

 

3 hours ago, john wawrow said:

I'll reiterate my stance that this site has consistently been over-run by the few, and provides little value, because it has inevitably become a place of condemnation rather than one for discussion or enlightenment.

It's the reason I unsuccessfully asked a few years ago to have my account deactivated, because the discourse here quickly leans toward the toxic, with a prevailing few bullying the narrative into shape.

I'll agree that I made an honest mistake in citing Forbes as the Sabres listed as having $1.9 million in operating profit in 2018-19, as opposed to "revenue."

That said, to conflate these into "whoppers" as alleged by the original poster is but another example of how the supposed discourse here is narrowed and twisted into a few people's point of view, and anyone questioning it is dismissed.

There appears to be no place for contrarian or alternate views, and unlike at TwoBillDrive, where there is healthy discourse, little oversight in how posters are disparaged.

Good luck and I hope you all continue enjoying your circle-jerk exercise.

This is friendly advice that goes back to rec.arts.startrek in 1987.  Each BBS has its own gatekeepers, mods, and culture.  If you go against them, you too can have your entire workspace filled with BELs.  (My crime was not liking Star Drek: The Next Regurgitation.)  SS is no different from any other social media.  Try defending Obama's budget record on NRO or Trumps ideas about China on HuffPost.

Whether anyone likes it or not, there are certain dominant narratives on any BBS like Sabrespace, whether they be accurate or not.  Because what you wrote goes against their prevailing stances, the reactions were eminently predictable.  For instance, I just blew up and said my peace a few days ago on one topic.  It affected no one, but I at least put the truth as I knew it out there.  Maybe you should just say your POV and be done with it.

In these days of COVID-19 isolation, political polarisation, and frustration and a sense of hopelessness about the Sabres, I have come to expect much prickier behaviour in all social media.  As Walter Cronkite used to say, "[T]hat's the way it is."  So any minor factual good that gets coupled with a column which conflicts with someone's narrative gets you the reactions you saw.

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5 minutes ago, shrader said:

I was thinking the same exact thing in terms of TBD being something like this board x50 or 100.  That said, the quality of discussion around this place has degraded heavily over recent years.  I blame that almost completely on the team.

This seems spot on.

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On 6/11/2020 at 10:19 AM, Crosschecking said:

Kim, I’d trade you for Joanna Gaines.

Aren't they the same person?

 

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I think The Aud club is actually superior in quality to TSW, though it comes nowhere near the quantity of discussion. Both sites have some great posters, but TSW has a larger percentage of dumb/annoying/trolling posters. But because of the amount of discussion on TSW, I am on it more.

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5 hours ago, john wawrow said:

That said, to conflate these into "whoppers" as alleged by the original poster is but another example of how the supposed discourse here is narrowed and twisted into a few people's point of view, and anyone questioning it is dismissed.

Discourse is a point of view, Anakin. The ‘Spacers and the Media are similar in almost every way. Including their quest for greater power knowledge and understanding of the Ehrhoff/Moulson (and by extension the Sabres). In the few years here at the bottommost of the standings, I’ve found the discussions here to be almost the opposite of toxic. Yes, folks get excited and derailed and offended sometimes, but the mods are usually quick to settle us down (great job by all y’all, by the way). Compared to most online forums on almost every topic this ‘Space is quite enlightening.

2 hours ago, shrader said:

That said, the quality of discussion around this place has degraded heavily over recent years.  I blame that almost completely on the team.

You can blame me for that as well. I usually just quote a certain set of films... um...  I am NOT a committee!

Edited by DarthEbriate
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6 hours ago, john wawrow said:

I'll reiterate my stance that this site has consistently been over-run by the few, and provides little value, because it has inevitably become a place of condemnation rather than one for discussion or enlightenment.

It's the reason I unsuccessfully asked a few years ago to have my account deactivated, because the discourse here quickly leans toward the toxic, with a prevailing few bullying the narrative into shape.

I'll agree that I made an honest mistake in citing Forbes as the Sabres listed as having $1.9 million in operating profit in 2018-19, as opposed to "revenue."

That said, to conflate these into "whoppers" as alleged by the original poster is but another example of how the supposed discourse here is narrowed and twisted into a few people's point of view, and anyone questioning it is dismissed.

There appears to be no place for contrarian or alternate views, and unlike at TwoBillDrive, where there is healthy discourse, little oversight in how posters are disparaged.

Good luck and I hope you all continue enjoying your circle-jerk exercise.

 

I'm curious: the Pegula Sabres right now are a historically bad organization. Nine consecutive seasons missing the playoffs, constant incompetence at every single level of the organization, Melnyk levels of PR incompetence and being tone deaf, kept a GM who has done nothing but step into rake after rake after rake with the biggest being one of the single worst most disastrous trades of all time (a move that was completely indefensible the second it was made and looks even worse in hindsight), provide one of the most awful gameday experiences in the league (Forget NHL, most AHL teams do a better job) and have essentially done nothing right. What is the argument against that being true? What is the contrarian argument for the Pegulas not being really bad owners? Citing the Bills is an apples to oranges comparison because the NFL and NHL have virtually nothing in common. They have shown no sign whatsoever they are capable of running a successful NHL organization because they never learn from their mistakes and just keep repeating them while expecting different results.

Edited by sabremike
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3 hours ago, shrader said:

I was thinking the same exact thing in terms of TBD being something like this board x50 or 100.  That said, the quality of discussion around this place has degraded heavily over recent years.  I blame that almost completely on the team.

I mean seriously, what are we supposed to talk about right now?  What is going well that we can discuss?  What reason for optimism is there for anything?  The only things to talk about are who to fire or trade and those are already negative and only become moreso.  This year there isn't even a reason to look forward to free agency with any sort of expectation because they have no money to play that game so we can't have a 60 page thread about Brad Richards or John Tavares.

I don't have animosity for Wawrow.  I think he tries to do a good job and like anyone he makes mistakes occasionally.  I just don't think anyone really was happy to read what he wrote the other day and unfortunately when that happens sometimes people will take it out on the writer.

I don't know that there are too many Sabres fan out there who are in a mood for much else other than a torch and pitchfork mob and anything other than that isn't going to be received well at the moment because it will either come of as excuses or added justification as to why the team will continue to be terrible and thus further fuel anger towards the people running it.  The facts are what they are but there is a major reason that the Sabres aren't making more money than they are.  It's because they are LOSING.  That attendance still is what it is and merchandise sales and everything else is a testament to the fans. I don't know whether it's loyalty, stubbornness, foolishness, or a combination of the 3, but people still spend money to watch them and have their stuff. If the team would god forbid win a little all of that would improve and there would be playoff money to go around as well.  I'm not super interested in feeling bad that a poorly run team isn't making a lot of money. 

I'm already on the record as saying that I don't think the Sabres are a well run organization.  There are too many things, both large and small, that get fouled up much too consistently to call it anything other than poorly managed.  At the end of the day people will look for blame to lay and when you put yourself into a position like President of the team you are going to catch flak for how the team is performing in all aspects. There are such things as absentee owners who aren't involved in the day to day and they get to pass the buck off onto the people they hire more easily than people who don't do that. The Pegulas talked a big game when they bought this team and very little of what they have said has actually come to fruition and that is wildly frustrating to fans of the team.  

This year is the second time since the Pegulas have owned the Sabres that I have cancelled Center Ice. There is no reason to devote the time or money into watching the product and since we've been told that everything will be the same more or less next year I see no reason to change my opinion.  They are a hot mess until proven otherwise. I recognize the money they have spent.  That's good stuff.  Seriously, it's good for everyone. However, if there was more focus on being a good hockey team and less focus on being good rink managers and real estate developers and sports marketers and restauranteurs maybe we'd be in the playoffs from time to time.

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11 hours ago, john wawrow said:

Good luck and I hope you all continue enjoying your circle-jerk exercise.

lol what a pompous douche. you know you are insecure if you have to post sh*te like this.

 

Edited by Thorny
clarity

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I did chuckle at him scolding people over not promoting a healthy discourse when his post was as useful at promoting it as a drum kit in Anne Frank's attic.

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She has no comprehension of what it takes to run a hockey club.  This should be given to someone who has a background in hockey operations.  Regardless if it is just the business side of things.  Stick the owner's box.   You're part of the PROBLEM Kim, not the solution.

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3 minutes ago, TheCerebral1 said:

She has no comprehension of what it takes to run a hockey club.  This should be given to someone who has a background in hockey operations.  Regardless if it is just the business side of things.  Stick the owner's box.   You're part of the PROBLEM Kim, not the solution.

While it's accurate about her and her husband's incompetency in running a hockey team it needs to be stressed that they have been every bit a complete and utter failure in the non-hockey part of the operation as well. That is actually far worse because you can have a team that sucks but doing things like promotions, having a ticket department that runs smoothly, treating fans well ect. is completely 100% controllable.

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3 hours ago, Thorny said:

lol what a pompous douche. you know you are insecure if you have to post sh*te like this.

 

I find it unprofessional.  I'm not putting him on a pedestal but that jeering is in poor taste and uncalled for regardless who posted it.  Whatever.  Moving on, no?

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It's funny how things work out. On the home page, there are links to posts on TBD. One caught my eye. It's about a comment Josh Allen made about current events in Buffalo. I clicked on it. I now officially love him and will root for him more than before. The response to the OP was from someone with the handle Cripple Creek, whose avatar is the face of the Minneapolis police officer who has been charged with murder (screenshot from the video). You are right, John. Such an enlightened place. That never would happen here.

Edited by PASabreFan
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