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Brawndo

Non Sabres Deadline Trades/Rumors

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2 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

I can't wait for the Sabres to be good again, then the discussion around here will be good again.

The last 5, or so, pages in this thread have been only very slightly more civil than during the darkest hours of the tank years.  Thank you again Sabres management for that shining moment.

The other threads most active today are not much better.

It still beats summer hockey discussions where we discuss trades and line combinations that never happen. Embrace the chaos.

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31 minutes ago, WildCard said:

I almost don't wanna know what you're referring to here because it'll be that depressing 

Look at the trade between Carolina and Calgary, now imagine some combination of Lindholm(Botterill’s Top Target from Carolina), Skinner, Hanifin and Derek Ryan coming back to Buffalo.

The ROR Trade was horrible, one the worst in league history  and that’s on Botterill’s to an extent, but Pegula did hamper his ability to get a better return. 

Edited by Brawndo
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32 minutes ago, Tondas said:

Youngsters.  I was collecting pucks at Tonawanda Ice Time and throwing them back on the ice when the Sabres practiced there in the 70's.

well, 30 only gets me back to 20 yrs old.....:)

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1 hour ago, Tondas said:

Youngsters.  I was collecting pucks at Tonawanda Ice Time and throwing them back on the ice when the Sabres practiced there in the 70's.

I was around when Buffalo was awarded the franchise and how excited I was to switch my allegiance from Boston (grew up on Cape Cod) to the infant Sabres. Still have a warm spot in my heart for the Knox family.

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5 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Well if Mr. “I’ll Drill Another Well” had agreed to pay the bonus, Elias Lindholm and Jeff Skinner would have been part of the return. 

Or the GM could not have chosen the inept coach over his 2nd best player. 

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1 minute ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Or the GM could not have chosen the inept coach over his 2nd best player. 

You need to aim higher in the chain of command

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1 minute ago, Brawndo said:

You need to aim higher in the chain of command

There's nobody higher than Botterill other than Pegula, and I'm not going to believe Pegula ordered the O'Reilly trade without some real evidence. Botterill has iced two of the worst teams in franchise history, so I'm not going to just buy that his worst move just happens to not be his fault. 

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1 hour ago, TrueBlueGED said:

There's nobody higher than Botterill other than Pegula, and I'm not going to believe Pegula ordered the O'Reilly trade without some real evidence. Botterill has iced two of the worst teams in franchise history, so I'm not going to just buy that his worst move just happens to not be his fault. 

The rumor as far as I know was only ever that Pegula refused to pay the bonus, not that he was the decision maker in deciding to trade him in the first place. Sounds like it was Jason's call, and then Pegula said we aren't paying the bonus if we are moving him. 

Botterill then presumably read a lot of Pronman and was eagerly anticipating 60 points as a rookie from Casey in a 2C role to match EP's. 

Just kidding. He had Beglund for backup, too. A guy that, when he bailed on the the team, the consensus was the Sabres were very fortunate to just be rid of his awful cap hit. 

Edited by Thorny
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1 hour ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Having a first time head GM retool a team might have been a bad idea.

Twice. 

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1 hour ago, TrueBlueGED said:

There's nobody higher than Botterill other than Pegula, and I'm not going to believe Pegula ordered the O'Reilly trade without some real evidence. Botterill has iced two of the worst teams in franchise history, so I'm not going to just buy that his worst move just happens to not be his fault. 

That comment was in response to Botterill choosing an inept coach over his second best player, only if Pegula would have remembered watching ROR play in the Aud. 
 

That being said the following did influence Pegula and you better believe the decision this big landed on his desk.

 

Embarrassing the Boss in public is a no no.  
 

Kane at Bottoms Up when the entire NHL was assembled for the draft in Buffalo. 
 

ROR’s Tim Hortons Incident dominated the NHL Media Cycle July 2015 days after he became the highest paid Sabre at that time
 

The infamous comment. 
 

That and the perceived guilty parties locker room dysfunction secured the pathway that was taken with ROR. 
 

In terms of other trade partners.

 

Bob McKenzie reported that Carolina was amongst the most interested but Dundon wanted the bonus paid first. 
 

Both Lindholm and Skinner were targets of Botterill and both were moved indicating they were available

He shouldn’t have been moved in the first place, both those two would have been light years better in return.

Pegula set a hard deadline for July 1st with no bonus being paid. Botterill believed that he would not stick to this, up to the end which was a huge mistake on his part. Perhaps a better back up trade agreement should have been in place.
 

Arpon Basu reported the price was too high for Montreal, Lou and the Isles were taking to Botterill during the afternoon of July 1st per Arthur Staple. 
 

Lou Kovacs, who covered the Blues was told by Doug Armstrong about 3pm that the deal was dead for ROR. Things moved very quickly as Berglund, Sobotka and Thompson were not even notified about a potential trade until it was complete. 

Botterill has neglected rebuilding the forward depth, particularly in the draft. He’s drafted 8 forwards, 8 defenseman and 2 goalies. Offensive Players with higher ceilings would have been nice at 32 and 31. 
 

He brought back every player from a garbage team last season including Zemgus at a 1.6 Million AAV, when analytics show he is one of the most replaceable players in the NHL. 
 

He did not give up much for Sheary or Vesey in trades, but he has not gotten much if any production from either. Andre Burakovsky would have been the a better Target. 
 

And so far he appears to be 0 for 2 with HCs in terms of using analytics to influence lineup decisions. 
 

The fact that there is going to be between 4 to 8 Million Dollars worth of healthy D Men in the press box for the next few nights, because none were moved is another strike against him

Botterill does not get a pass from me on his overall job performance, because in year three things remain dire with the team. 
 

Short of winning a cup, the ROR Deal will be the first line  in Botterill’s NHL Obituary and he will own it. I hated the trade the day it was made, I posted the return in the thread along with a WTF. I hated  it even more when I found out that there were restrictions and influences from ownership. 


 

 

 

1 hour ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Having a first time head GM retool a team might have been a bad idea.

 

9 minutes ago, Weave said:

Twice. 

They are easier to work with if you fancy yourself as a hockey guy 

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39 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

That comment was in response to Botterill choosing an inept coach over his second best player, only if Pegula would have remembered watching ROR play in the Aud. 
 

That being said the following did influence Pegula and you better believe the decision this big landed on his desk.

 

Embarrassing the Boss in public is a no no.  
 

Kane at Bottoms Up when the entire NHL was assembled for the draft in Buffalo. 
 

ROR’s Tim Hortons Incident dominated the NHL Media Cycle July 2015 days after he became the highest paid Sabre at that time
 

The infamous comment. 
 

That and the perceived guilty parties locker room dysfunction secured the pathway that was taken with ROR. 
 

In terms of other trade partners.

 

Bob McKenzie reported that Carolina was amongst the most interested but Dundon wanted the bonus paid first. 
 

Both Lindholm and Skinner were targets of Botterill and both were moved indicating they were available

He shouldn’t have been moved in the first place, both those two would have been light years better in return.

Pegula set a hard deadline for July 1st with no bonus being paid. Botterill believed that he would not stick to this, up to the end which was a huge mistake on his part. Perhaps a better back up trade agreement should have been in place.
 

Arpon Basu reported the price was too high for Montreal, Lou and the Isles were taking to Botterill during the afternoon of July 1st per Arthur Staple. 
 

Lou Kovacs, who covered the Blues was told by Doug Armstrong about 3pm that the deal was dead for ROR. Things moved very quickly as Berglund, Sobotka and Thompson were not even notified about a potential trade until it was complete. 

Botterill has neglected rebuilding the forward depth, particularly in the draft. He’s drafted 8 forwards, 8 defenseman and 2 goalies. Offensive Players with higher ceilings would have been nice at 32 and 31. 
 

He brought back every player from a garbage team last season including Zemgus at a 1.6 Million AAV, when analytics show he is one of the most replaceable players in the NHL. 
 

He did not give up much for Sheary or Vesey in trades, but he has not gotten much if any production from either. Andre Burakovsky would have been the a better Target. 
 

And so far he appears to be 0 for 2 with HCs in terms of using analytics to influence lineup decisions. 
 

The fact that there is going to be between 4 to 8 Million Dollars worth of healthy D Men in the press box for the next few nights, because none were moved is another strike against him

Botterill does not get a pass from me on his overall job performance, because in year three things remain dire with the team. 
 

Short of winning a cup, the ROR Deal will be the first line  in Botterill’s NHL Obituary and he will own it. I hated the trade the day it was made, I posted the return in the thread along with a WTF. I hated  it even more when I found out that there were restrictions and influences from ownership.

Nicely written. And pretty much spot on.

Personally, the entire situation is now beyond a tragedy in the purest sense.

I have had to face the reality that the Buffalo Sabres organization is in complete shambles. And what sinks my local team fandom even deeper in to the abyss of despair is that there is a very strong argument we could fall even farther down in to the depths of hockey hell.

What a complete disaster the past 8 yrs have been. I still remember Pegula standing at 5he podium proclaiming the sole existence for the Sabres is to win Stanley Cups.

I am now 100% confident this season is another write off season. How truly sad, depressing and quite honestly, astonishing that fans still fill the arena.

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1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

That comment was in response to Botterill choosing an inept coach over his second best player, only if Pegula would have remembered watching ROR play in the Aud. 
 

That being said the following did influence Pegula and you better believe the decision this big landed on his desk.

 

Embarrassing the Boss in public is a no no.  
 

Kane at Bottoms Up when the entire NHL was assembled for the draft in Buffalo. 
 

ROR’s Tim Hortons Incident dominated the NHL Media Cycle July 2015 days after he became the highest paid Sabre at that time
 

The infamous comment. 
 

That and the perceived guilty parties locker room dysfunction secured the pathway that was taken with ROR. 
 

In terms of other trade partners.

 

Bob McKenzie reported that Carolina was amongst the most interested but Dundon wanted the bonus paid first. 
 

Both Lindholm and Skinner were targets of Botterill and both were moved indicating they were available

He shouldn’t have been moved in the first place, both those two would have been light years better in return.

Pegula set a hard deadline for July 1st with no bonus being paid. Botterill believed that he would not stick to this, up to the end which was a huge mistake on his part. Perhaps a better back up trade agreement should have been in place.
 

Arpon Basu reported the price was too high for Montreal, Lou and the Isles were taking to Botterill during the afternoon of July 1st per Arthur Staple. 
 

Lou Kovacs, who covered the Blues was told by Doug Armstrong about 3pm that the deal was dead for ROR. Things moved very quickly as Berglund, Sobotka and Thompson were not even notified about a potential trade until it was complete. 

Botterill has neglected rebuilding the forward depth, particularly in the draft. He’s drafted 8 forwards, 8 defenseman and 2 goalies. Offensive Players with higher ceilings would have been nice at 32 and 31. 
 

He brought back every player from a garbage team last season including Zemgus at a 1.6 Million AAV, when analytics show he is one of the most replaceable players in the NHL. 
 

He did not give up much for Sheary or Vesey in trades, but he has not gotten much if any production from either. Andre Burakovsky would have been the a better Target. 
 

And so far he appears to be 0 for 2 with HCs in terms of using analytics to influence lineup decisions. 
 

The fact that there is going to be between 4 to 8 Million Dollars worth of healthy D Men in the press box for the next few nights, because none were moved is another strike against him

Botterill does not get a pass from me on his overall job performance, because in year three things remain dire with the team. 
 

Short of winning a cup, the ROR Deal will be the first line  in Botterill’s NHL Obituary and he will own it. I hated the trade the day it was made, I posted the return in the thread along with a WTF. I hated  it even more when I found out that there were restrictions and influences from ownership. 


 

 

 

 

They are easier to work with if you fancy yourself as a hockey guy 

This is a great post.

I had not heard the bolded previously.  Was that published somewhere reputable?  If so that was a huge blunder.

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And after reading all that... I still like the Pegulas. As owners, like anyone, they make mistakes. I just hope, unlike everyone, they learn from their mistakes. You have the right to hate the owners. And I have the right to like the owners. 

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55 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

And after reading all that... I still like the Pegulas. As owners, like anyone, they make mistakes. I just hope, unlike everyone, they learn from their mistakes. You have the right to hate the owners. And I have the right to like the owners. 

I too like the Pegulas. I think they care and mean well. I also think for the first few years, Terry was too involved in the decision making. Lately, he seems to not be involved in decision making, and there’s no difference. 

I also hope someday to find out what happened with Patty LaLa. 

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14 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Having a first time head GM retool a team might have been a bad idea.

Twice. 

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10 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

I too like the Pegulas. I think they care and mean well. I also think for the first few years, Terry was too involved in the decision making. Lately, he seems to not be involved in decision making, and there’s no difference. 

I also hope someday to find out what happened with Patty LaLa. 

I doubt we will ever hear the whole story.  I have one credible insider that I probe only sparingly.  

Here are some factors:

1 Terry set up a confusing organization with blurred lines of responsibility and with too many unneeded people lurking around.  This created trust issues, factions, etc  

2  Patty hired GMTM and Teddy Nolan  - figured they would be loyal to him at all times  

3  Patty wanted to rebuild around Ryan Miller and wasn’t looking for consensus on this 

4  Murray thought he was free to trade Miller and did - the others, including Terry agreed 

5  Patty does not always play nice.  He left and Nolan had no top cover   

 

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37 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I doubt we will ever hear the whole story.  I have one credible insider that I probe only sparingly.  

Here are some factors:

1 Terry set up a confusing organization with blurred lines of responsibility and with too many unneeded people lurking around.  This created trust issues, factions, etc  

2  Patty hired GMTM and Teddy Nolan  - figured they would be loyal to him at all times  

3  Patty wanted to rebuild around Ryan Miller and wasn’t looking for consensus on this 

4  Murray thought he was free to trade Miller and did - the others, including Terry agreed 

5  Patty does not always play nice.  He left and Nolan had no top cover   

 

So Pat went wee wee wee all the way home. I think it’s time to get an experienced GM in here. I don’t Know who but after these last two it’s clearly not working. JB is the Mat Ellis of GMs.

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On 11/22/2019 at 10:10 AM, Ogelthorpe said:

Did fine for the first 100 years of hockey until people decided to go math professors for hockey advice. 

 

 

And so did the rotary phone. So did going down to the creek to do your laundry or take a bath. Hundreds of years without any Viagra, computers, autos, etc.

You'll live, trust the system!!!🚨

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2 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

And so did the rotary phone. So did going down to the creek to do your laundry or take a bath. Hundreds of years without any Viagra, computers, autos, etc.

You'll live, trust the system!!!🚨

How did analytics turn out for the Panthers last night?

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