Sabres Fan in NS Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 He seems to throwing the team under the bus a bit there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabel79 Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 Assuming he's telling the truth and was only taking what the team gave him, then they kind of belong under the bus a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 Or it came from something else... could you test positive for eating meat from an animal that was given the drugs? (I'm not suggesting.. just wondering). I'd like to believe him but given every edge athletes try and get you always wonder what "new" thing someone tried and finally got caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducky Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 On 8/30/2018 at 2:46 PM, Weave said: Mine turns 21 today. I think that means I can officially abdicate any responsibility now. Drinking age is 21? 18 here and in October we can buy weed legal...I think it's October. Might have to be 19 for weed too, not sure. If you are under 18 and there is any hint of alcohol in your system, I believe the car is impounded and the driver loses their license for I can't remember how long. .08 is the limit. Back in 1984, a cop told me I would walk if I blew a .10 or less and I blew a .11. It cost me 495.00 for the fine that I paid over the counter and lost my license for 6 months but I got a work permit. I had 12 demerits and it gave me 10 more. This scenario today would cost me thousands of dollars and rightly so. Probably close to 10,000.00 when all is said and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubkev Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 32 minutes ago, LTS said: Or it came from something else... could you test positive for eating meat from an animal that was given the drugs? (I'm not suggesting.. just wondering). I'd like to believe him but given every edge athletes try and get you always wonder what "new" thing someone tried and finally got caught. Canelo Alverez would say yes, tainted meat can cause a positive test(and I would call Canelo a freakin cheater) Is there any way we will ever know if he's telling the truth about the percentage? I doubt it, thus I'll remain a skeptic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeSabresGrr8Again Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 I would tend to believe him after the team came outright and made this statement.... "We were notified that the NHL has suspended Nate Schmidt for violating the terms of the NHL/NHLPA Performance Enhancing Substances Program," the Golden Knights said in a statement. "While we respect the NHL/NHLPA Performance Enhancing Substances Program, we strongly dispute the suspension. We firmly believe that the presence of a trace of the banned substance was accidental and unintentional. Based on our conversations with Nate, analysis from independent medical experts and sworn testimony from the parties involved, we believe it is clear Nate was not able to reasonably ascertain how the substance entered his body. "Nate is an honest person with high moral character and great integrity. We will stand by him and support him during this time." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabel79 Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 That contract will look bad in about 2 years but hey, if that's your window might as well. Yes I am saying the magical 91pt season he had last year is an outlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 Blake Wheeler has been underrated for years. Last year was higher than even I have ever expected from him but he’s damn good. Among the 15 best in the league. That’s a risky deal but they got a lower term on it so that helps. It will pay him until he’s 37 which is pretty old. He’s a good leader and highly skilled on the wing. Led the league in primary assists last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted September 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) Paying top line winger money for a guy past his prime, not a great move IMO. Then again, the Caps did it for Oshie, and they won one; all is forgiven if you win Edited September 4, 2018 by WildCard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 22 minutes ago, Hoss said: Blake Wheeler has been underrated for years. Last year was higher than even I have ever expected from him but he’s damn good. Among the 15 best in the league. That’s a risky deal but they got a lower term on it so that helps. It will pay him until he’s 37 which is pretty old. He’s a good leader and highly skilled on the wing. Led the league in primary assists last year. Who were the other 2 players on his line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 35 minutes ago, Hoss said: Blake Wheeler has been underrated for years. Last year was higher than even I have ever expected from him but he’s damn good. Among the 15 best in the league. That’s a risky deal but they got a lower term on it so that helps. It will pay him until he’s 37 which is pretty old. He’s a good leader and highly skilled on the wing. Led the league in primary assists last year. I like Wheeler a lot and since Winnipeg is in "win now" mode I think this will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 Wheeler might not be worth 8 mil at the end, but someone else would give him that contract instantly, and the play you get from him over the next four seasons are certainly worth paying him big money at 37 versus not doing that but not having him after this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) No, that's just a horrible contract. Doesn't kick in until next season, paying him, starting at 33, until age 38, at over 8m a year? With all the other players they still need to pay coming up soon? Laine, Connor, Trouba....Maybe the great Scheifele contract helps offset the terrible Little contract, but adding this albatross is going to hurt sooner than later. His play will probably be in decline by the first year of the deal. There's also the dicey Hellebuyck contract to consider. Maybe in a vacuum you want to pay a guy in his mid 30s this much, but a team with their upcoming cap situation is going to feel it. If they don't win the cup this season or the next, it's big trouble. Edited September 4, 2018 by Thorny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, WildCard said: Paying top line winger money for a guy past his prime, not a great move IMO. Then again, the Caps did it for Oshie, and they won one; all is forgiven if you win Tell that to Hawks fans. Edited September 4, 2018 by Thorny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted September 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Thorny said: Tell that to Hawks fans. Didn't they hand out absurd contracts after they won all their Cups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, WildCard said: Didn't they hand out absurd contracts after they won all their Cups? Ya, and last I heard the fans are laying in to their now overpaid stars. Cups and all. Edit: I see what you are saying, those contract came after a Cup. But still, the fans are having no trouble taking issue with their highly paid cup winners - I'm not sure that having a cup to your name in the past stops fans from taking issue at perceived poor-value contracts, regardless of when signed. Edited September 4, 2018 by Thorny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted September 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Thorny said: Ya, and last I heard the fans are laying in to their now overpaid stars. Cups and all. The point of the Wheeler/Oshie deals is they gave them contracts they know are going to be awful, but swallowed the bullet in order to win a Cup. The Hawks already had the Cup(s), there was no reason to swallow the bullet/hand out those contracts; I'd give Okposo 8x10 if it meant we get to win 1 Cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, WildCard said: The point of the Wheeler/Oshie deals is they gave them contracts they know are going to be awful, but swallowed the bullet in order to win a Cup. The Hawks already had the Cup(s), there was no reason to swallow the bullet/hand out those contracts; I'd give Okposo 8x10 if it meant we get to win 1 Cup Right, see my previous post edit. I'm just not sure when the contract is handed out matters to the average fan - if that cup win is in the rear-view mirror, and the player is under performing relative to their deal, fans will take issue with it. It's also much more likely that a cup doesn't arrive in the next couple years than does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted September 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Thorny said: Right, see my previous post edit. I'm just not sure when the contract is handed out matters to the average fan - if that cup win is in the rear-view mirror, and the player is under performing relative to their deal, fans will take issue with it. It's also much more likely that a cup doesn't arrive in the next couple years than does. See I think it does matter, especially for desperate fan bases that go through such droughts like Chicago, Washington, and Winnipeg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, WildCard said: See I think it does matter, especially for desperate fan bases that go through such droughts like Chicago, Washington, and Winnipeg. If winning ONE cup is enough to forgive a terrible deal, you'd think having 3 cups would take the sting out of Toews being overpaid right now, considering one would think he'd be unconditionally loved in that city by this point. But for many fans, it doesn't. If Toews can be ragged on this much after 3 cups, I don't think Wheeler or Oshie would be immune after only 1 cup, even if the deal came a bit sooner. As a fan, wouldn't you trade the deal signing time-frame for an additional two cups? It's always "what have you done for me lately" in sports, with regards to many fans. If a player is massively overpaid and it shows, there'll be issues. Particularly when it starts messing with the other components of team building. The Jets are operating like a purely win-now team, when many of their best young players haven't even entered their primes. They are artificially shortening their window by a significant degree with deals like this, in my view. How is it going to look in two years, if they haven't won a cup, and they now have a 34 year old Wheeler with declining production taking up over 8 million in cap space for another 4 seasons? If the one and only way a deal makes sense is if you win the Cup.....that's a bold strategy, Cotton, considering there are 30 other teams after the same thing. Edited September 4, 2018 by Thorny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Thorny said: If winning ONE cup is enough to forgive a terrible deal, you'd think having 3 cups would take the sting out of Toews being overpaid right now, considering one would think he'd be unconditionally loved in that city by this point. But for many fans, it doesn't. If Toews can be ragged on this much after 3 cups, I don't think Wheeler or Oshie would be immune after only 1 cup, even if the deal came a bit sooner. As a fan, wouldn't you trade the deal signing time-frame for an additional two cups? It's always "what have you done for me lately" in sports, with regards to many fans. If a player is massively overpaid and it shows, there'll be issues. Particularly when it starts messing with the other components of team building. The Jets are operating like a purely win-now team, when many of their best young players haven't even entered their primes. They are artificially shortening their window by a significant degree with deals like this, in my view. How is it going to look in two years, if they haven't won a cup, and they now have a 34 year old Wheeler with declining production taking up over 8 million in cap space for another 4 seasons? If the one and only way a deal makes sense is if you win the Cup.....that's a bold strategy, Cotton, considering there are 30 other teams after the same thing. It sure is a conundrum... short of these deals its likely the team loses said player because someone will make that deal. Gotta be a Stevie Y level GM to figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 37 minutes ago, North Buffalo said: It sure is a conundrum... short of these deals its likely the team loses said player because someone will make that deal. Gotta be a Stevie Y level GM to figure it out. Well, that's just it. Virtually every team makes those deals, because those deals will get made by some team, so if you want to retain your top players at some point you will be overpaying them. I can't wait for the day we are overpaying guys because we are going for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 4 hours ago, LGR4GM said: Who were the other 2 players on his line? Kyle Connor and Mark Schiefele were the most common combo with 48.6% of his ES minutes. No other combo was more than 9.3%. 68.7% of ES minutes came with some combo of Connor, Schiefele, Ehlers and Bryan Little. Those are good players but hardly the elite type of players that would take away from that stat. Only 16.8% of time with Laine. This response very rarely works because of course the league leaders are playing with good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Weave said: Well, that's just it. Virtually every team makes those deals, because those deals will get made by some team, so if you want to retain your top players at some point you will be overpaying them. I can't wait for the day we are overpaying guys because we are going for it. Right. I'd argue the Jets probably had to make that deal . But to me, that makes it no less of a bad contract. It's the definition of paying for past performance, for the (really) wrong years. They even paid him after his best offensive season, by far - he eclipsed his previous point total high by a whopping 13 points. It's the opposite of a value deal. I believe a trade would have been in the realm of possibility had Wheeler not been the captain and heart of their leadership, owing to the Jets hoard of solid young wingers and winger prospects, but as it stands, they couldn't move a player like that right now. Cheveldayoff was in the position where he had to make this deal. An interesting follow-up question would be: If you could get Wheeler as a UFA at 33, for $8.25 million per for 5 years, would you sign him for the Sabres? No "and get rid of Okposo" answers. 19 minutes ago, Hoss said: Kyle Connor and Mark Schiefele were the most common combo with 48.6% of his ES minutes. No other combo was more than 9.3%. 68.7% of ES minutes came with some combo of Connor, Schiefele, Ehlers and Bryan Little. Those are good players but hardly the elite type of players that would take away from that stat. Only 16.8% of time with Laine. This response very rarely works because of course the league leaders are playing with good players. Schiefele is arguably an elite offensive player, and he's certainly a better all-around hockey player than Laine. Edited September 4, 2018 by Thorny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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