Randall Flagg Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Even if you get fair value, it always comes back to the huge hole O’Reilly leaves in our roster. Nothing short of JT would fix it. I think this discussion has cemented me here if I wasn't already. JT + a ROR move, or kick the ROR can down the road (perhaps to a future with a fully-blossomed CM) and be happy with what he brings to the team now. He's not the only core player, but he's the most important trade-able one. You can still accomplish an attitude shift without moving him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Even if you get fair value, it always comes back to the huge hole O’Reilly leaves in our roster. Nothing short of JT would fix it. At the risk of Blue’s scorn: Schenn D3 18 points, D4 26 Bennett 26 and 26. I certainly wouldn’t be paying a ton for him, but he’s still 21. He’s very interesting as a buy-low throw-in. HELLO FRIEND! As Maya Angelou would say, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them." Some people give up on young players a season too soon. You hang on a season (or in Ryan Murray's case, several seasons) too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 HELLO FRIEND! As Maya Angelou would say, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them." Some people give up on young players a season too soon. You hang on a season (or in Ryan Murray's case, several seasons) too long. I can't tell if this is for or against Bennett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 I can't tell if this is for or against Bennett Against. His surface numbers don't show anything, and his underlying numbers don't give reason to think he has better to come, and I've never been impressed watching him. I'm becoming more serious. ROR and Nylander for Gaudreau and Bennett. Bennett and Nylander are a wash in my eye and you are taking their broken prospect in exchange for your own and you hope you get lucky. I love Gaudrau, but I don't think he's a good fit on Eichel's wing. Too puck-dominant. I'd happily staple him to Mittelstadt, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 (edited) You are correct. They also got Voracek and a 3 in the Carter deal. Finding a good comp specifically for Simmonds is hard, not too many guys like him, big, relatively fast, decent skill, good hands, parks in front of the net, will hit, will fight (and win). I think it's fair to say he outperformed expectations at the trade though. Most guys that you think of like him were drafted higher than Simmonds was (61st overall). For the purposes of this conversation try to think of a player, F or D, with at least 2nd round pedigree who has 2-3 years in the league with decent but not outstanding production and not necessarily straight line progression (Simmonds had 23, 40 and 30 points in 3 full seasons with LA) Nick Ritchie Max Domi Sam Bennett Brendan Perlini Andreas Athanasiou Tyler Bertuzzi maybe? Not that we will or should try to deal for any of those guys, just throwing names at the wall to approximate sentiment for the player equal to that of Wayne Simmonds on the day he was dealt. Simmonds was more highly regarded then than Bennett would be today regardless of draft status. Maybe because Tkachuck is more of a known quantity because he played in the NHL at 18 but Brayden Schenn was the 5th overall pick and was killing it. Tkachuck ABSOLUTELY has more value today than Simmonds did on the day he was traded. Schenn would have been a lot closer, he really was supposed to be the plum of that deal, not Simmonds. Agreed HELLO FRIEND! As Maya Angelou would say, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them." Some people give up on young players a season too soon. You hang on a season (or in Ryan Murray's case, several seasons) too long. Sean Couturier says hiHe’s working out with Nino Neiderreiter and Matt Dumba ???? EDIT: Couturier has always been one of my guys. Never had a strong opinion on Nino and I’ve always disliked Dumba. Blind squirrels... Edited June 6, 2018 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Agreed Sean Couturier says hi He’s working out with Nino Neiderreiter and Matt Dumba ???? Wake me if Couturier repeats this season. My money is on no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Wake me if Couturier repeats this season. My money is on no. Not a chance he does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 (edited) I'm becoming more serious. ROR and Nylander for Gaudreau and Bennett. Bennett and Nylander are a wash in my eye and you are taking their broken prospect in exchange for your own and you hope you get lucky. Hmm, it's definitely a offense for defense style trade. What if we combine that with Dubinsky(1,850,000mil retained) and Boone Jenner for Fasching and a 3rd in 2019. After all Dubinsky fell off a truck last year but I'd think he'd still be an effective 3rd line C and Jenner could be Eichel's winger where Gaudreau would be with Mittelstadt and Okposo I'm also ridding us of Larsson, and Beaulieu So..... Jenner - Eichel - Reinhart Gaudreau - Mitts - Okposo Bennett - Dubinsky - ERod Wilson - Girgs - Baptiste Pommers and Bailey are the extras Edited June 6, 2018 by dewookieen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 I’ve been looking at Dubinsky as a cap dump temporary O’Reilily roster replacement as well, but I would be surprised if they will give us Jenner to take him off their hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 IF O'Reilly gets traded, I think it'll tell us a lot about where Botterill thinks the team is at. Given there's no compelling reason to move him (such as entering the last year of his contract), if Botterill trades him for futures, to me that means he thinks the team won't compete for 3 years. Potentially, or maybe he just thinks ROR is a non-starter team mentality wise, chemistry/locker room stuff. We just don’t have the intel Botterill does. I think any O’Reilly trade would come from two things: Changing the chemistry Cost-benefit analysis of which piece being moved gets us closer to the cup. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 IF O'Reilly gets traded, I think it'll tell us a lot about where Botterill thinks the team is at. Given there's no compelling reason to move him (such as entering the last year of his contract), if Botterill trades him for futures, to me that means he thinks the team won't compete for 3 years. Or he really is a locker room cancer. I don't think a competent GM can decide that with two of the highest rated prospects outside of the NHL ready to step in the lineup and one of the best young ones already here. For what it's worth I really want them to keep ROR. Unless there are things going on behind closed doors in which I say get the best return that will help us today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted June 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 SportsNet Trade Candidates Dougie Hamilton is on the list, however ROR does not appear to match what the Flames are looking for. https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/2018-nhl-trade-candidates-24-players-get-dealt-summer/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marions Piazza Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Hmm, it's definitely a offense for defense style trade. What if we combine that with Dubinsky(1,850,000mil retained) and Boone Jenner for Fasching and a 3rd in 2019. After all Dubinsky fell off a truck last year but I'd think he'd still be an effective 3rd line C and Jenner could be Eichel's winger where Gaudreau would be with Mittelstadt and Okposo I'm also ridding us of Larsson, and Beaulieu So..... Jenner - Eichel - Reinhart Gaudreau - Mitts - Okposo Bennett - Dubinsky - ERod Wilson - Girgs - Baptiste Pommers and Bailey are the extras I just don't believe that Fasching has any value at all, the kid was a healthy scratch by Rochester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 No way. Tkachuk got 48 points at 19 and 49 at 20. Simmonds hadn’t even played an NHL game at Tkachuk’s age. He was 23 when he was traded and was coming off a 30-point year, though he did score 40 the year before. It's as close as we'll get to a physical scorer like Simmonds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Depends on how you define compete. I hope our gm counts that as being able to contend for the cup, and not limping into the playoffs. If that's the case, we are 2-3 away. And ROR is not part of that picture. Trade him while his value is high, and also when the real money remaining on his contract will be a windfall to an owner worried about cash. The last two straight years the team picking first went on to make the playoffs the next season. That includes Toronto two years ago who were DFL. I'm not betting it, but it still wouldn't shock me if the Sabres make it this coming year. How did the leafs do it? They got lucky having the first pick in a year that was suppose to have a really good player. Check. They added two very high end prospects (Nylander and Marner) for their rookie seasons. We have one (Mitts). But we also have Jack which is a wayyyyyy better player than they had on their roster. They had a high pick from a couple of years ago break out (Kadri). We could have that in Sam. Their D was/arguably still is a trainwreck similar to ours. Big difference is Anderson is a competent goalie they traded for near the draft. We need a goalie but I really don't think we're that far away from the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Didn't we lose something like 28 1 goal games? Was it lower than that? I know it was relatively high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 I'm becoming more serious. ROR and Nylander for Gaudreau and Bennett. Bennett and Nylander are a wash in my eye and you are taking their broken prospect in exchange for your own and you hope you get lucky. Calgary ain't trading Gaudreau. He put up over a point a game and is 24 years old. Next highest Flame scored 20 points less than him. Not gonna happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Didn't we lose something like 28 1 goal games? Was it lower than that? I know it was relatively high. Against backup goalies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Against backup goalies. No My rough count not looking at empty net goals is 22, 1 goal games lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted June 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Long discussion on Trading ROR on WGR 550 this AM, shocking that they talked about the Sabres for more than 15 minutes this AM. White agreed with a tweet that ROR for Galchenyuk, Victor Mete and Montreal’s 2018 2nd. And Howard Simon mentioned he is not worried about trading him within the division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Long discussion on Trading ROR on WGR 550 this AM, shocking that they talked about the Sabres for more than 15 minutes this AM. White agreed with a tweet that ROR for Galchenyuk, Victor Mete and Montreal’s 2018 2nd. And Howard Simon mentioned he is not worried about trading him within the division. Trading within the division won't suddenly make that other team catch you in the standings. The sooner this idea of not trading within the division goes away, the better. I might accept that thought mid-season, but at this time of the year it just gets in the way of building a team properly. Take what you believe to be the best possible deal, regardless of who the other team is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Trading within the division won't suddenly make that other team catch you in the standings. The sooner this idea of not trading within the division goes away, the better. I might accept that thought mid-season, but at this time of the year it just gets in the way of building a team properly. Take what you believe to be the best possible deal, regardless of who the other team is. True, but trading w/in division doesn't necessarily help either. Ottomh: Out Paille. In Lehner, Legwand, Gorges, & Beaulieu. Meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Long discussion on Trading ROR on WGR 550 this AM, shocking that they talked about the Sabres for more than 15 minutes this AM. White agreed with a tweet that ROR for Galchenyuk, Victor Mete and Montreal’s 2018 2nd. And Howard Simon mentioned he is not worried about trading him within the division. Galchenyuck excites but worries me a lot. He only has 2 20+ goal seasons, and his point/games played numbers are all over the place. I'm not sure he's a guy that will ever put it all together Meanwhile, I'm back to being right about Drouin. Kid ain't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 I wouldn't trade ROR, but especially to Montreal where almost anything we'd receive would pale in comparison to what ROR would give Montreal. They remind a bit of the 2010/11 Sabres in that they have a great goalie, some nice pieces, but 0 centers. ROR would give them that and I am not looking to help my rivals. Unless MTL's 1st, Galchenyuk, and Mete are all coming our way that is. A center's impact outweighs almost anything they can offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Galchenyuck excites but worries me a lot. He only has 2 20+ goal seasons, and his point/games played numbers are all over the place. I'm not sure he's a guy that will ever put it all together Meanwhile, I'm back to being right about Drouin. Kid ain't ###### You're right, he isn't, unlike most all of Moe-ray-all's other forwards not named Gallagher. ;) Give 'em Nylander & a sweetener & put him on Eichel's wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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