Holy Mackerel! Sabres Win Dahlin Lottery!

[Rasmus_]

Good God.  Jack had better not slouch off while Dahlin is on this ice.  Dahlin will kill him.

 

I also like the idea that he practices with intensity.  If he can bring some of that urgency to our other high talent guys, that alone may vault the Sabres into the playoffs.

 

One player will not fix the monumental hole in the line up.  Our wings are garbage outside of Sam, who will definitely take over on the RW permanently now.  So yes, one player can improve the tempo we push the puck out of the zone and will have a trickle down effect on the rest of the D in the line up to make it a less pressured situation.  But, looking at the Sabres, it doesn't look or feel like a playoff roster.  If you think they can get even to the 10th spot ...I think that's a stretch.  We'll see in August what the rest of their off season looks like before I get that hyped up. 

[LGR4GM]

"Karlssson at that age was a really good offensive defense-man. He played the powerplay and he did a great job offensively. I think Rasmus Dahlin has the defense too. The last year he added the defensive side of the game." - Par Johansson 

I went to look up Sabres draft picks to see who was coming up.... I encourage all of you to take a look at this wikipedia page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Buffalo_Sabres_draft_picks

Edited May 9, 2018 by Skurk Liger

[LGR4GM]

Par Johansson, mentioned that Dahlin gets his shots through but he needs more power on his shot. Seemed to think it was more important right now that the shots were getting to the net and thinks Dahlin will get a stronger shot over the next few years as he gets stronger. Also mentioned that Dahlin has worked hard to get stronger and will continue to do that. He is already strong and phsyical on his skates. 

[PASabreFan]

I am so with this.

There have been so many reasons to be down about the Sabres, bask in the sun while it shines.

There's literally no sun to bask in right now. Maybe we should at least wait until he's played a few games? It's been raining for days and tomorrow's forecast is for improving conditions. It's bedtime. Dream if you want, but don't tell me the sun is out.

 

I think it's pretty interesting to look at how many posters have been quiet or at least very muted about Dahlin. I suspect it's age-related, young Randall notwithstanding (not that Randall has been muted, just a little more reasonable than others).

 

As the philosopher Descartes once said, "We shall see!"

I can't tell you how uncomfortable listening to that was, he seemed nice and all, but man Peters is a buffoon

Even I didn't understand what "decking out your pad" meant. Poor Rasmus.

 

The way the Sabres organization handled this interview maybe should give people slight pause about how they might handle him as a player.

[LGR4GM]

It doesn't give me pause at all because Botterill and Housley are not Peters and Rivet. 

[dudacek]

It’s probably tied to age, but mostly it’s about one’s ability to allow themselves hope.

Dahlin gives me hope.

 

It’s been a long cold, lonely winter.

It seems like years since it’s been here...

[That Aud Smell]

I am effing FIRED UP about Dahlin.

 

Like, vague butterflies in the stomach excited.

 

I think the reaction to this prospect is, as much as anything, a Rorschach test for posters here. You end up expressing, in part, who you are and what you're about through how you're choosing to receive and respond to the information we're getting about an 18 year-old prospect.

[LGR4GM]

I am effing FIRED UP about Dahlin.

 

Like, vague butterflies in the stomach excited.

 

I think the reaction to this prospect is, as much as anything, a Rorschach test for posters here. You end up expressing, in part, who you are and what you're about through how you're choosing to receive and respond to the information we're getting about an 18 year-old prospect.

You know what is weird. Dahlin has shown how great he can be time and time again. He does thing no one else even thinks of successfully. Yet people are like "wooo slow down there." On the other hand we have Josh Allen who is older and has not been very successful and yet I am supposed to trust the process or something because he will be good with his 1 trait of a big arm.  If I had to bet right now on Dahlin or Allen succeeding I would cash in my retirement on Dahlin. 

[WildCard]

You know what is weird. Dahlin has shown how great he can be time and time again. He does thing no one else even thinks of successfully. Yet people are like "wooo slow down there." On the other hand we have Josh Allen who is older and has not been very successful and yet I am supposed to trust the process or something because he will be good with his 1 trait of a big arm.  If I had to bet right now on Dahlin or Allen succeeding I would cash in my retirement on Dahlin. 

One of those teams has a management team everyone doubted only for them to break a 17 year playoff drought. The other has a management team everyone is still unsure about. Results speak louder than words, and the Bills have delivered, so there is trust there

[darksabre]

I am effing FIRED UP about Dahlin.

 

Like, vague butterflies in the stomach excited.

 

I think the reaction to this prospect is, as much as anything, a Rorschach test for posters here. You end up expressing, in part, who you are and what you're about through how you're choosing to receive and respond to the information we're getting about an 18 year-old prospect.

I'm quite excited. And I usually don't get excited for draft picks. But this is special.

[dudacek]

I think it's pretty interesting to look at how many posters have been quiet or at least very muted about Dahlin. I suspect it's age-related, young Randall notwithstanding (not that Randall has been muted, just a little more reasonable than others).

I want to explore this further. What posts have been unreasonable?

On one extreme I see Lgr saying that “This kid is a generational defenceman.” On the other I see Pi saying “he has a lot to prove; I expect good, not great.” Neither take is unreasonable based on what I’ve seen, read and experienced.

 

The majority of reaction has been between “Wow this kid looks good! Did we finally get lucky?” and “I’m not going to let myself get excited until he starts helping us win; I’ve been burned before.” Again, reasonable takes, based on what we know.

 

Unreasonable is “this is it, we’ve clinched the cup in five years or less” or “the Sabres have never had an elite defenceman, there’s no way this kid can be one either.” I haven’t seen those posts.

Edited May 9, 2018 by dudacek

[Randall Flagg]

You know what is weird. Dahlin has shown how great he can be time and time again. He does thing no one else even thinks of successfully. Yet people are like "wooo slow down there." On the other hand we have Josh Allen who is older and has not been very successful and yet I am supposed to trust the process or something because he will be good with his 1 trait of a big arm.  If I had to bet right now on Dahlin or Allen succeeding I would cash in my retirement on Dahlin. 

This isn't a very fair interpretation - we're told great things about a guy we haven't seen outside of 5 minute highlight videos. We largely believe them, but wish to hold off on calling his floor Karlsson, for example (grrrr hfboards), until we see him play his first second of NHL hockey. We still understand what his ceiling is as a prospect. We understand that other people get more excited than we do, and it should be obvious when you look at recent Sabres history why we might lean towards being reserved. 

 

And this board hates Josh Allen a million billion times more than it loves Dahlin. 

[sabills]

I started to talk myself into Allen once the Sabres won the lotto, which is incredibly irrational, but...well here we are.

[PASabreFan]

You know what is weird. Dahlin has shown how great he can be time and time again. He does thing no one else even thinks of successfully. Yet people are like "wooo slow down there." On the other hand we have Josh Allen who is older and has not been very successful and yet I am supposed to trust the process or something because he will be good with his 1 trait of a big arm.  If I had to bet right now on Dahlin or Allen succeeding I would cash in my retirement on Dahlin. 

Shouldn't it be obvious? Randall touched on it. Dahlin has yet to play a second in the NHL. In the interview with the three amigos, he said how he found it more difficult to play on the smaller NHL ice. That should pump the brakes a little, but I doubt it will.

I want to explore this further. What posts have been unreasonable?

On one extreme I see Lgr saying that “This kid is a generational defenceman.” On the other I see Pi saying “he has a lot to prove; I expect good, not great.” Neither take is unreasonable based on what I’ve seen, read and experienced.

 

The majority of reaction has been between “Wow this kid looks good! Did we finally get lucky?” and “I’m not going to let myself get excited until he starts helping us win; I’ve been burned before.” Again, reasonable takes, based on what we know.

 

Unreasonable is “this is it, we’ve clinched the cup in five years or less” or “the Sabres have never had an elite defenceman, there’s no way this kid can be one either.” I haven’t seen those posts.

I don't think any of the comparisons are reasonable (except maybe the one where Karlsson himself said Dahlin is better than he was at the same age). I'd also suggest, but not insist I am right, that not being willing to trade Dahlin for McDavid is not only unreasonable, but quite mad.

Edited May 9, 2018 by PASabreFan

[dudacek]

I don't think any of the comparisons are reasonable (except maybe the one where Karlsson himself said Dahlin is better than he was at the same age). I'd also suggest, but not insist I am right, that not being willing to trade Dahlin for McDavid is not only unreasonable, but quite mad.

Are you talking about the actual comparisons that have been made, or the fact comparisons are being made to NHLers at all?

I’d say it’s more than reasonable to compare things like ceilings, floors and playing styles to other players. Not only is human nature, it is intrinsic to the jobs of every scout and hockey department.

 

As to your second sentence, fair point.

[LGR4GM]

Shouldn't it be obvious? Randall touched on it. Dahlin has yet to play a second in the NHL. In the interview with the three amigos, he said how he found it more difficult to play on the smaller NHL ice. That should pump the brakes a little, but I doubt it will.

It pumps no brakes. Rasmus Dahlin will be an amazing NHL player. He doesn't have to play a second in the NHL to be excited about what his first seconds in the NHL will be like. He didn't play against 18 and 19 year old kids in a Canadian junior league where he blew by people and stick handled everyone because they were kids, he did it to grown men and professionals in probably the 2nd or maybe 3rd best league in the world, at 17. His game improved from 16 to 17 and i have no reason to believe it won't from 18 to 19 and so on. I'm not pumping the breaks because this kid is a genuine stud on defense. We could realistically see 10g and 30a from him next season. That puts him at the level of Risto in terms of production, at 18. 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Skurk Liger

[inkman]

Shouldn't it be obvious? Randall touched on it. Dahlin has yet to play a second in the NHL. In the interview with the three amigos, he said how he found it more difficult to play on the smaller NHL ice. That should pump the brakes a little, but I doubt it will.

 

I don't think any of the comparisons are reasonable (except maybe the one where Karlsson himself said Dahlin is better than he was at the same age). I'd also suggest, but not insist I am right, that not being willing to trade Dahlin for McDavid is not only unreasonable, but quite mad.

William Nylander also said his brother Alex is definitely more talented than he. That story has yet to be finished but it's looking more like a tragedy than a fairy tale. I'm optimistic but words are just words, I need tangible evidence before my needle is moved. Edited May 9, 2018 by inkman

[Weave]

William Nylander also said his brother Alex is definitely more talented than he. That story has yet to be finished but it's looking more like a tragedy than a fairy tale. I'm optimistic but words are just words, I need tangible evidence before my needle is moved.

Yup.

 

Granted, the opinions on Dahlin appear more universal, but afaiac, expectations of franchise level play with no NHL level play to date is irrational. I suppose fan is short for fanatical. Might as well elect a team Pope or iman I guess.

[dudacek]

Yup.

Granted, the opinions on Dahlin appear more universal, but afaiac, expectations of franchise level play with no NHL level play to date is irrational. I suppose fan is short for fanatical. Might as well elect a team Pope or iman I guess.

Irrational?

How many highly-touted “franchise’ top picks over the past few years have failed to so far meet expectations?

 

Matthews and Laine have met them.

McDavid and Eichel met them

McKinnon and Jones and Barkov have met them

Taylor and Tyler have met them

Tavares and Hedman have met them

Stamkos and Doughty have met them

 

Pretty much all the “elite” guys have met expectations.

 

It’s the next level guys that have some hits and misses, but most of the recent high picks that aren’t elite - Nugent-Hopkins, Reinhart, Drouin, Landeskog, Ekblad etc - were never expected to be elite anyway, just very good. And most of them are. The busts? It’s pretty much Yakupov in the past 20 years and that’s it.

Edited May 9, 2018 by dudacek

[WildCard]

Irrational?

How many highly-touted top picks over the past few years have failed to so far meet expectations?

 

Matthews and Laine have met them.

McDavid and Eichel met them

McKinnon and Jones and Barkov have met them

Taylor and Tyler have met them

Tavares and Hedman have met them

Stamkos and Doughty have met them

 

Pretty much all the “elite” guys have met expectations.

 

It’s the next level guys that have some hits and misses, but most of the recent high picks that aren’t elite - Nugent-Hopkins, Reinhart, Landeskog, Ekblad etc - were never expected to be elite anyway. And the busts? It’s pretty much Yakupov in the past 20 years and that’s it.

Yeah that's the thing about hockey, especially these days. 'Can't miss prospect' really and truly is just that, and they will be just that. 

[LGR4GM]

Yup.

 

Granted, the opinions on Dahlin appear more universal, but afaiac, expectations of franchise level play with no NHL level play to date is irrational. I suppose fan is short for fanatical. Might as well elect a team Pope or iman I guess.

No it isn't. This guy is the real deal. He might be better than Jack Eichel. We expected Eichel and McDavid to be franchise level but it is irrational to say that about Dahlin? I'm not buying it. He is dominant when he is on the ice. He did things in the SHL and at the WJC that other players can't even dream of. The hype is real. No prospect has NHL level play, it is irrational to use that as a measuring stick for a prospect. 

 

You know what strikes me about his highlights? It isn't just 1 or 2 or 3 really standout plays of him using his skating and brain combined with his stick skills to make something happen, it is literally every play. He is just consistently better. You don't want to be excited that is fine, temper your expectations. I expect great things from Dahlin because everything I have read, watched, heard says this kid is on a different level.

 

[PASabreFan]

No it isn't. This guy is the real deal. He might be better than Jack Eichel. We expected Eichel and McDavid to be franchise level but it is irrational to say that about Dahlin? I'm not buying it. He is dominant when he is on the ice. He did things in the SHL and at the WJC that other players can't even dream of. The hype is real. No prospect has NHL level play, it is irrational to use that as a measuring stick for a prospect. 

 

You know what strikes me about his highlights? It isn't just 1 or 2 or 3 really standout plays of him using his skating and brain combined with his stick skills to make something happen, it is literally every play. He is just consistently better. You don't want to be excited that is fine, temper your expectations. I expect great things from Dahlin because everything I have read, watched, heard says this kid is on a different level.

 

That's what a highlight reel is.

 

Where's his lowlight reel?

 

Dahlin talked on GR about all the areas he has to improve, mainly his defensive play.

[LGR4GM]

That's what a highlight reel is.

 

Where's his lowlight reel?

 

Dahlin talked on GR about all the areas he has to improve, mainly his defensive play.

No way! Thanks for letting me know, I thought it was just how he played every single shift all the time. 

 

One thing I like about this game is we see the defensive side of Dahlin and we see the "lowlights" which isn't what they are, I would call them, regular play. He played with a very good and older Brannstrom at the WJC. Keep in mind he was 17 playing with primarily 19 year olds (Brannstrom is 18). There is a larger gap between 17 and 19 due to physical and mental maturity but still he was on the top defensive pair. I think this game shows a very mediocre game for Dahlin, he doesn't generate a ton but he also doesn't allow a ton against. He is consistent in his own end and clearly playing a system You will note how often defensively he slides into the spot just in front of the goalie. He stays there for the most part but when he engages it is good. A few times he gets used as a screen when guys are skating in but he also breaks up a bunch of those plays because he is skating backwards so well. There is one play I noted where he almost gets beat around the outside, but again there are 5 others where he takes his guy outside. His passing is excellent, I am not sure he makes a bad pass once. His play is solid in that he almost always does something smart with the puck. You see him engage physically. You do get some highlights here and there. Again, I watched all his WJC games and I think he is better in other ones. He was really good against the US. In the Russia game he sits back a lot and is clearly designated as the last man back at times. Still he played his part well.  Again most of the guys he plays against are 18 or 19 during this tourney, so being a top pairing defender at 17 is great. 

[LTS]

One of those teams has a management team everyone doubted only for them to break a 17 year playoff drought. The other has a management team everyone is still unsure about. Results speak louder than words, and the Bills have delivered, so there is trust there

 

You know, you are basically giving credit to the Bills for being lucky and not sucking as bad as other teams.  They were anything but good this past season.  They were an mediocre team that got by on a fluke play from the Bengals.  That pass gets dropped or doesn't end up in the end zone and your tune on the Bills is that they were mediocre and missed the playoffs.

 

How good were the Bills?  They jettisoned their starting QB.  No team that is GOOD, gets rid of their starting QB.

 

When the Bills retreat back into 4-12 land this year what will be the attitude towards that team and their successful leadership?

Edited May 10, 2018 by LTS

[WildCard]

You know, you are basically giving credit to the Bills for being lucky and not sucking as bad as other teams.  They were anything but good this past season.  They were an mediocre team that got by on a fluke play from the Bengals.  That pass gets dropped or doesn't end up in the end zone and your tune on the Bills is that they were mediocre and missed the playoffs.

 

How good were the Bills?  They jettisoned their starting QB.  No team that is GOOD, gets rid of their starting QB.

 

When the Bills retreat back into 4-12 land this year what will be the attitude towards that team and their successful leadership?

The NFL in general is a league based on circumstance. The fact is the Bills made the playoffs, so there is trust with that front office that there isn't with the Sabres